Jayce has more than hp/level than Jax, Shen, Garen, Mundo, Galio, and others

FalconPawwwwnch·Nov 8, 2016·108 votes·4,064 views

Just thought I'd share

77 Comments

Supreme Senpai69Nov 8, 201635 votes

So tired of seeing these. "Shen has a lower base HP than Zed" or some such nonsense. Yes, that's because Shen builds HP. Zed doesn't. Shen has 540 HP and Zed has 579 HP, but this isn't a reason to say Shen is weak.

Did you guys know Shen has a higher base AD than Zed? Shen's is 60, Zed's is 54. It's because Zed builds AD. You can't give free starting HP to a tank that would be unbalanced. You can't give free starting AD/AP to a damage champion either. To compensate, they usually get the other stat

DarkRitualNov 8, 201613 votes

"We want them to need to build a certain stat, so we're making that base stat terrible."

In other news, swords should be dull so people have to swing them faster and more forcefully in order to deal damage. Lights should be less bright because people should look in order to see well.

Giga KahunaNov 8, 201610 votes

sion has 60 base damage

jhin has 50 base damage

somehow sion isn't an adc and jhin is?!? JHIN ENDS UP DEALING MORE DAMAGE THAN SION ANYWAYS?!? SION STILL BUILDS TANK EVEN THOUGH HE STARTS WITH MORE AD THAN JHIN?!?!? SION HAS LESS BASE ARMOR THAN KHA'ZIX BUT KHA'ZIX DOESN'T BUILD TANK AND SION DOES?!?!? WHAT THE HECK?!? RIOT?!?!?!?

Supreme Senpai69Nov 9, 20168 votes

Sion isn't an ADC for obvious reasons. That's why he has higher base AD. Can you imagine the misery of last hitting minions with 10 less AD as a melee tank? Jhin doesn't need the level 1 AD because he builds AD. Not to be rude but it isn't a hard concept to grasp

The Blue RajahNov 9, 20166 votes

Your sarcasm detector needs some serious calibration.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 9, 20165 votes

It's not in memes and games, there's no kappa or /s, it had downvotes, and that's actually what someone else replied to me too but in a different way tbh. My sarcasm detector is a bit rusty but works alright. It's just my faith in humanity that's low :P

Giga KahunaNov 9, 20166 votes

i was just making fun of the guy, thought it was clear with the loads of ?!?!? and italics

JonxxNov 9, 20163 votes

You never know on the internet to be honest. I've seen people say it this way many times, and they were serious.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 8, 201619 votes

Well no because real life isn't a video game that needs to be balanced.

Completely unnecessary snark aside, let's just roll with your metaphor. Let's say China and America are fighting. America develops swords which give them more attack. God wants the two races to be equal and not have an advantage, so he makes the people less muscular. That way, in a 1v1 without weapons China would win but once America builds their swords they can do more damage.

A bit silly, but you're the one that brought it up.

Off Meta EvanNov 9, 20169 votes

the difference here is that jayce also has high base stats with resistances, base damages, as well as good scaling. on top of the bonus resistances he gets from his hammer form. the issue is not him having higher base stats than tanks of its own volition the issue is that ALL of his base stats are better/good on top of him having higher range. jayce from a pure numbers perspective is a fucked champion.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 9, 20165 votes

Jayce has a base AD of 50, lower than both Shen and Zed in my example. This is why his base HP is 571-- higher than Shen, yet still lower than Zed. Please look these things up for yourself before saying someone is wrong :l

Off Meta EvanNov 9, 20165 votes

i wasn't even talking about AD. i was talking about his resistances and base damage. but if you really wanna go for AD yes technically jayce does have lower base stats all throughout the game compared to shen but at level 18 he has literally 1 AD less.... thats not a big enough difference to justify being tankier, ranged, higher base damage, better scalings, and some utility of his own.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 9, 20163 votes

"the issue is not him having higher base stats than tanks of its own volition the issue is that ALL of his base stats are better"

Sorry I took that to mean not only is his HP better but his AD is better too. Personally I think Jayce is overtuned but I thought we were just talking about base stats and nothing else.

Off Meta EvanNov 9, 20166 votes

just meant his tanky stats, shoulda specified MB. as for stats, you can look at them as they are but you also have to account for how does said stat help the champion. in this case, a bit extra AD over jayce helps shen a little but it doesn't help him that much. He scales with AP and HP so the extra AD doesn't really do anything outside of his Q doing like 10 more damage than jayce can give out each auto... oh boy... where as jayce SCALES with AD while having tankier stats. if the difference between them was like 50 AD and shen had VERY high base AD scales you'd have a case but he doesn't even come in the top 5. the trade off between carry and tank is typically, i do more damage between the two of us without damage items so i can just build defenses and you have better range and scale better but have shit base damages and HAVE to build damage if you want to do more than me. but with jayce its, you have slightly higher base AD.... thats it. git fucked.

hhaavviikkNov 9, 20162 votes

what about all the other tanks that build health and have higher base health then shen? it can't be because any of his abilities, hell nautilus gains a bigger shield the more health he has and he has 257 more base health then shen.

''you can't give free starting hp to a tank'' well clearly that's not the case as proven above and here's another example:

alistair starts with 80 more base health then shen and at lvl 18 has 634 more health then shen.

so clearly ''can't give free starting hp else unbalanced'' is not true else we would nerf alistair his health by 600, nautilus his health by 257, tahm health by 300, leona health by 150 etc etc

CochoNov 8, 201613 votes

Sona has more than shen lul

edit: im just saying, im not implying anything. I know he makes health and has shields lol

Gosh DarnNov 8, 201610 votes

Shen also has a spammable shield and an ability that gives immunity to AAs while costing no mana. As much as I hate false power, like Kassadin's passive giving hypothetical MR while removing Kassadin's MR/lvl because of this, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Ariel the CruelNov 9, 20164 votes

To be fair, Kassadin's passive is pretty good for what he was originally meant to be - an anti-mage bruiser. Unlike MR, his passive can't be reduced.

Gosh DarnNov 9, 20164 votes

The problem is that it's not free, he uses both a passive and loses his MR/lvl to get an effect that is about equal to a passive, so overall I'd say he sacrifices a lot for his passive.

Ariel the CruelNov 9, 20162 votes

A lot of stat passives have lower values of the corresponding stat. Kassadin isn't alone in this.

The biggest problem with Kassadin's passive is that it assumes he's going to be taking punishment. Unfortunately, he's played as an assassin who avoids damage as much as possible. It's a good passive for someone who is slugging it out. It's not so great on someone who bursts and runs away.

RogueWillNov 9, 20162 votes

The shields are not spammable, they are build in passive similar to Vi.

NiceTryViNov 9, 20162 votes

It doesn't require that the ability lands, only that you use one. It just reduces the cooldown if it hits someone.

MelledoneusNov 9, 20163 votes

The shield isn't even that good unless you stack a god-awful amount of HP. And Shen can't afford to stack as much as he needs because his armor scaling is the worst in the game. And we know that you need a crap ton of armor for our lovely saviors the AD carries. Even if there's only one.

The EcdysiastNov 9, 20168 votes

Jax: Dodge+stun+stat increase ultimate Shen: Dodge+ shields +more map pressure than Jayce could ever have Garen: More HP per second than anyone else in the game, + %damage reduction (with Warmog's, the regen increases to around 700per5s) Mundo: More HP regen on an ability than anyone else in the game + no secondary resource cost

ALL: More MR per level than Jayce--> Ranged champions (even transformations) do not scale MR per level at all.

ALL: Designed to be building tank items.

I get you hate Jayce, but using HP per level as an argument is ridiculous.

GrReaper96Nov 9, 20161 votes

Jayce tankiness isnt a problem at all its his damage. Arguments like these just seem desperate

The EcdysiastNov 9, 20162 votes

It's not even his damage, really. It's people playing immobile juggernauts-- designed to ONLY be countered by range and nothing else-- fighting against him and even still, rushing Black Cleaver instead of a defense item, then complaining that they lost to a counter.

FriusNov 8, 20166 votes

well ,most of champions have more than garen wtf is 84.25 / lvl even? he had 96/ lvl pre jug rework

MordepoolNov 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

well ,most of champions have more than garen wtf is 84.25 / lvl even? he had 96/ lvl pre jug rework

They want to force you to buy health items duh

ZoeeeeNov 8, 20165 votes

Trynd has the highest in the game.

MelledoneusNov 9, 20162 votes

Because building health on Tryndamere is a wasted stat.

EbonyBladeJ88Nov 9, 20164 votes

That's a problem that's easily solved. Just Play the New Yorick . I've wrecked a number of Jayces with my new favorite Shepherd.

ItsOrvalNov 9, 20161 votes

If they are good with Jayce, they should be able to beat a yorick. I had problems facing Yorick at first, Now I rarely lose a match to him.

EbonyBladeJ88Nov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If they are good with Jayce, they should be able to beat a yorick. I had problems facing Yorick at first, Now I rarely lose a match to him.

I never said that I beat PRO Jayces, just the ones I HAVE played against I have won.

RequiemsfireNov 9, 20163 votes

Yeah but unlike of all of those Jayce can't build tanky to deal damage and has no defensive steroids in his kit.

FalconPawwwwnchNov 9, 20162 votes

Wrong

Jayce gets 35 armor and MR for free passively in melee form

While having higher base HP and armor than Jax

RequiemsfireNov 9, 20166 votes

Yet Jax builds two items item 3078 item 3146 then builds nothing but tank items and stomps on everyone. Yet Jax gains free MR and armour from building damage when he uses his ult. The MR and Armour jayce gains is only to compensate for the fact that he switched to melee form.

The EcdysiastNov 9, 20167 votes

Jayce gets zero MR per level, like every ranged champion.

Which means extremely vulnerable to Jax's magic damage for free at level 6.

TotalJerkNov 9, 20163 votes

That is an incredibly pointless comparison.

Shen has his shields and can negate AAs
Jax can completely negate auto attacks
Garen has a sustain passive and an ability that gives allowes him to block 30% of damage at will
Mundo has two incredibly strong healing sources, an ability whose damage that scales with his max health, and a painful poke that literally has no scaling yet is an extremely potent poke
Galio has a heal

Giving any of these champions more hpthan they have would make them broken.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That is an incredibly pointless comparison.

Shen has his shields and can negate AAs

Jax can completely negate auto attacks

Garen has a sustain passive and an ability that gives allowes him to block 30% of damage at will

Mundo has two incredibly strong healing sources, an ability whose damage that scales with his max health, and a painful poke that literally has no scaling yet is an extremely potent poke

Galio has a heal

Giving any of these champions more hpthan they have would make them broken.

Darius has a very powerful heal and yet he enjoys one of the absolute highest base HPs in the game.

OP has a point, why does someone like jayce not have ADC levels of base HP? He should.

The EcdysiastNov 9, 20162 votes

Because he has ADC levels of MR. That is, none per level.

Darius is an outlier in regards to any stat. At level 10 his passive AD is stronger than any AD item in the game, since SoTO's removal.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because he has ADC levels of MR. That is, none per level.

Darius is an outlier in regards to any stat. At level 10 his passive AD is stronger than any AD item in the game, since SoTO's removal.

His MR issues are remedied by his melee form, unlike other transformers...

Jayce is indefensible in his current state.

TheGoomyGamerNov 9, 20163 votes

TRANSFORMERS Elise Jayce Nidalee teems in disguise

The EcdysiastNov 10, 20161 votes

The other transformers all have healing to match that.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The other transformers all have healing to match that.

Jayce has synergy with lifesteal.

The EcdysiastNov 11, 20161 votes

Gunblade exists.

TeCoolMageNov 9, 20163 votes

Yeah we should totally give Ashe, Soraka, Janna, Xerath, Vayne, and Twitch more armour than Tryndamere! None of them build that stat while Tryndamere does!

ItsOrvalNov 9, 20162 votes

Jayce dies in 1.87 seconds.

Thought id share beens im a Jayce main.

Hardstuck G4Nov 9, 20161 votes

How do you let them get close enough to hit you without them killing you?

ItsOrvalNov 9, 20161 votes

CC is OP against Jayce my man.

SussiexNov 9, 20162 votes

Doesn't this health per level scaling have to do with how they're intended to be built? Garen is built to be more tanky in the long run, so his bases should be higher than other targets - he won't scale as hard off raw stats per level, but it gives him that extra bulk that he would otherwise lack until he got a couple tank items built.