Supports being this broken is bad for the game

Rexxiee·Feb 18, 2018·7 votes·1,454 views

They just invalidate solo laners/any kind of solo carry potential they could possibly have by having anti-interaction kits.

Supports need a nerf across the board, itemization and kits.

29 Comments

LordDarkshaydeFeb 18, 20184 votes

Can't tell if this is a shit-post or you are seriously this naive.

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 18, 20182 votes

Could you explain why you think this qualifies as a shit post?

LordDarkshaydeFeb 18, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YXiOA6aJ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-18T19:26:25.064+0000)

Could you explain why you think this qualifies as a shit post?

Because for years people have been complaining that supports are the worst role to play, when in fact they are usually the main play makers of a team. Now this guy comes in here screaming for a nerf to ALL supports. That good sir is why this is a shit post. Supports are finally in a good place with no longer being forced to spend their first 800g on a sightstone and having decent itemization routes to take where they don't feel like just another body on the rift. Hell just listen to LCS casters when a support gets picked off or is the only one to die in a teamfight. Even they act like supports aren't worth a damn.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 20183 votes

what's being in "a good place" to you sir?

because to me completly invalidating anything that comes in range with a 100% rate of success is NOT being in a good place, but being completly gamebreaking that toplane suffers from it and forces you to play hypermobile melees like camille or ranged "melees" like gangplank

i'm a support main and i can say that by far supports are broken if you don't play support don't play support, keep playing vi if you want, no one cares but let the others play a peaceful game without broken shit

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 18, 20183 votes

First: the way teams play in LCS is far different then how we play. Supports in LCS are the least valuable member, as you need your carries for damage, jungler for objective control, and top laner for TP pressure. So out of the 5 members, support is largely the least important, and if they can save one of those 4 in exchange for themselves, that's the better option.

For us regular people though, support is more important. They keep everyone alive, they get vision for the team, they function as primary engages. And they always have. It's just that for most people, those aren't the most engaging of play. So Riot added things like Knight's Vow and Redemption, that make support much more engaging. However, this was done without changing the balance of power of the other classes.

So now you have a group, who's sole purpose is to keep carries alive, and who just got a bunch of new fun (and more importantly, impactful) toys to use. So now your carry, that was balance around the idea that they could be reached and taken out if played against correctly, is all of sudden never at risk. This leads to hypercarries (and hypertanks to protect and fight against them. And yes, hypertanks breed hypercarries to kill them, but that's another topic) overtaking every option for their respective roles, because they are no longer as much of a liability to their team.

So yes, supports are in a good spot right now. But that causes an imbalance of the classes that's created the current game state we have now.

Zexon9Feb 19, 20181 votes

Supports are broken say whatever you will. And they are for one reason, that being Shields. You can't bypass or reduce the amount of shileds adc gets. Let's say you play braum/alistar you will get 35+36% max hp shiled from locket, redemption heal, probably knights vow and guardian rune plus that bullshit cc rune that adc can heal off plus the last row rune that increase healing done. Oh what's that? You aren't play tank support? Ah ok here you go Fairy, now you can shiled/heal for extra, here go also never run out of mana why? Beacuse you need to keep you adc alive no matter what, oh but wait there's more! Did you get that juicy kill and don't knkw what to do? Here's water bending now run in that river with extra speed for free. I'm sorry what? Since when did everyone become lulu/soraka? And I'm not even touching the cc/damage suppprt possese (Say Hi Alistar). Back when I played support you were great support if you made plays or protected your adc, not by mashing support items and watching you shiled up whole team for 600 hp because Hp% scalling bullshit. And I don't even want to touch those adc who you protect that I can only one shot or else watch as they kill me in 2 sec with 3.0 as. Beacuse building rageblade on Varus is so expensive build.

Sir FuzziFeb 18, 20182 votes

Not him obviously, but there's three big detractors for me,

no details. Nerf stats? Itemization? Is "across the board" all champs, or all support items? All their scaling? Their bases? Everything?
no reasons. Despite anti-interaction defining none of the supports I can think of save maybe, Janna, it's used here as if self-explanatory. Furthermore, we're not at all sure why we've come to a nerf over a change, or a nerf to carries that they support, or anything.
hyperbole. Are supports 'this broken' and the game 'in a bad state' over it, or did the OP just lose a game to a gnarly support and feel the loss?

All-in-all it ain't exactly a bang-up argument; it's kind of a blanket statement that doesn't seem to reflect much besides a very one-sided opinion.

But on the other hand, we're now open to the OP's replies.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 20184 votes

thing is

i don't even understand how the boards can convince themselves that supports are fine

Dasdi96Feb 18, 20183 votes

Good luck convincing gameplay with your arguments. Support income needs to be reduced right now.

420 gramsFeb 18, 20183 votes

Supports actually feel impactful now and more fun to play.

I think the real problem against solo laners is how safe marksman are. If you're playing a melee champion against Vayne/trist/varus you have absolutely no way to win without them misplaying since they have mobility AND cc AND range on you.

RexxieeFeb 18, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YXiOA6aJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-18T19:28:49.089+0000)

Supports actually feel impactful now and more fun to play.

I think the real problem against solo laners is how safe marksman are. If you're playing a melee champion against Vayne/trist/varus you have absolutely no way to win without them misplaying since they have mobility AND cc AND range on you.

adcs are not safe by themselfes.

A jax can tower dive a vayne thats ahead as soon as he completes 1 item.

What makes adc too safe is how broken the supports are atm.

420 gramsFeb 18, 20182 votes

I disagree, I think Vayne has more potential in that fight.

If jax runs at her, she can kite and start hitting him sooner. If jax tries to q her, she can e him away. If he does get on her, she can q away. If he tries to run, her passive makes her faster to keep on him. Jax ult gives him bonus armor, which isn't super effective since Vayne has true damage. Vayne can R Q to not only turn intargetable and gain distance, but also have huge damage.

I mean if Vayne doesn't see him coming and Jax lands Q+E into the rest of the combo I get she gets bursted out, but that's Vayne misplaying and kit vs kit I don't see how Jax wins.

Sir FuzziFeb 18, 20181 votes

I feel as though this should be the case. Carries should feel exposed alone, especially to someone as vehemently anti carry as Jax. He has a basic attack block that stuns, for Pete's sake.

AnastaeciaFeb 18, 20183 votes

Another knee jerk reaction post. Someone had a bad game where the supp actually contributed and they get all butt hurt. "OH NO, now I have to watch out for all 5 enemies. I can't just laugh when I see Raka by herself anymore"...well you still can with Raka, but you get the point.

1wolfpackFeb 18, 20182 votes

people are not used to supports actually being useful in matches and now that they are non support players what them nerfed. problem is that not enough people are playing support to begin with, making them weaker is not gonna change that.

CoolKnightSTFeb 18, 20182 votes

It's funny that when one stream mentions supports are to strong. People randomly are complaining about it without having no idea what's actually wrong with supports right now. No it's not gold generation, it's not that AP support with 3 AP items that can kill you and it's not that mobies support that popups in your toplane. This is the reason why some supports are a little bit strong right now:

#Shields

Jup, it's that simple and it's not like their hasn't been complained about it before. Currently shield are to strong for the counterplay they provide:

Help, Pix! (E, ally cast) last for 6 seconds and has a flat 10 seconds cooldown
Eye of the Storm (E) last for 5 seconds and has a 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds cooldown (this one actually has recieved his nerf already)
Inspire last for 4 seconds and has a 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 seconds cooldown

Don't be wrong, some shields are actually very ballanced for the game like Rakan for example. The problem lies actually not even with the power of the shield. The issue lies with shielding that stack on eachother like item 3155 item 3190 item 3072 item 3053 etc..

Basicly their is nothing that can prevent you from stacking all available shield on one champion and suddenly this guy has 4000 tempory health and their is nothing you can do about that. An item, maybe even limited to one class like divers for example could already do wonders. Since some teamfights useally only last for 3 seconds and the average length of a shield is now 5 seconds you can understand that something needs to happen.

Shields are also very static. We don't have something like shield that buildup or decay upon cast. We don't have abilities with shields that only last for a brief moment (ok we have locket, but not in a ability).

But enouge about shielding let's talk about healing. With all those grievous wounds items introduced. Healing is in an decent state. Just hope to get some gw stacked before that item 3107 triggers. Maybe enchanters items are a little bit cheap. Add least one that also provide some defensive stats like .

Last but not least, adc's scale to quickly. That's a fact, no longer does an adc need 4-5 items. He's already carrying with one or two. Litterly an bruiser with the exact 2 times kills and gold an adc get's he will still lose 1v1 against that adc. Ok part of that is the state of divers, shouldn't we address that problem first before where talking about nerfing something else.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 20183 votes

great

where are Alistar Braum TahmKench Taric Shen nerfs now?

ModWulf HelhammerFeb 18, 20182 votes

I can definitely agree with Taric. That ult is way too strong for how much other stuff he has in his kit. Heals, shields, hard CC, then you double up on all those things, and add in a spammable enhanced AA

CoolKnightSTFeb 18, 20181 votes

The item 3302 nerfs are going to hurt his lane fase. Taric was not exactly known for his lane strength and he will probally will be pushed out the lane again by range supports. Another intressting thing to mention is that taric not exactly goes for health early. When he starts going for item 3301 he will be a lot more squishy and without the sustain I'm not sure how long he will remain standing in competive.

But who knowns, he was sleeper OP for so long until pro play finally figured out his strengths. I still believe he will see play in the future.

CoolKnightSTFeb 18, 20182 votes

The tank support meta will only last for one patch. You known the reason why they suddenly became meta right. Because of the sighstone changes. Squishy supports no longer go for a item 1028 early. This is why all-in becomes a lot easyer and the main reason why Alistar suddenly rises above all.

In the next patch item 3301 getting buffed and item 3302 getting and upgrades getting a massive nerf losing 25 / 50 health. This will be enouge to hurt them. Since every single one of them starts this is going to be felt.

I do believe that alistar & taric would be able to handle coin but all others are screwed.

AhristocatsFeb 18, 20183 votes

and yet

they're meta since 6 months now great "1 patch" bro

CoolKnightSTFeb 18, 20181 votes

Taric was sleeper OP and was late discoverd in pro play. He started to spike in the ardent meta. Alistar Shen Braum where strong for a while but never to the level they where before the sighstone changes. Before the sighstone changes they where high tier 1 tops but far from broken. Even now Shen is strong as an overal champion. It's not role specific. Any nerf towards Shen will compleetly remove him out the support role again after the relic nerfs.

Btw I find it strange you didn't mentioned Sion

Malix FarwinFeb 18, 20182 votes

The thing is people are used to supports just being nothing but people there to baby the ADC. Now that they have meaningful impact on the game just like every other lane they are suddenly "OP" and people wonder why no one wants to support. Supports aren't the problem, its the people they are supporting.

1wolfpackFeb 18, 20181 votes

reading the comments Im trying to understand how all supports are OP, even if we talk about utility supports like janna/Lulu/Soraka types which I think this discussion is about, why are they op when both teams have a support, both supports have access to the same items, and there all multiple supports with shields and heals. If the argument is somehow that the team with the better support wins the game and thats all that matters. 90% of the post on this site are about people losing because of bad team-mates and how they cant carry, but support is the least sought after role in the game, why doesn't everyone just play support if its the best role to carry with?

AnastaeciaFeb 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

reading the comments Im trying to understand how all supports are OP, even if we talk about utility supports like janna/Lulu/Soraka types which I think this discussion is about, why are they op when both teams have a support, both supports have access to the same items, and there all multiple supports with shields and heals. If the argument is somehow that the team with the better support wins the game and thats all that matters. 90% of the post on this site are about people losing because of bad team-mates and how they cant carry, but support is the least sought after role in the game, why doesn't everyone just play support if its the best role to carry with?

Exactly. Because it's like my post said...knee-jerk reaction.

Seriously people....how many of the negative posts on this forum are made 10s after a bad game? Probably 99%. SO the authors are tilted, have a sample size of a game or two where some weird stuff happened and then Riot has to change something immediately or the internet will explode.

NO...just adapt. The game changes constantly. You have to adapt constantly. There are always OP champs in each role and OP items and OP runes...and guess what..they change every 2 weeks. Yea, some broad meta trends stay around longer, but next month we will be complaining about Urgot supp or some crap.

OnlyYouCanHearMeFeb 18, 20181 votes

Not all supports are in a position to do that though. Yes, many of them have been helped with the changes to sightstone, but Sona is only just now beginning to recover from the massive nerfs that they hit her with. She can't handle any more nerfs. Between my normal and ranked matches, I probably have thousands of matches played with her, and my win rate has dropped almost 20% since last season because of the nerfing. It's so disheartening that I find myself not even wanting to play League at all anymore.

RexxieeFeb 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not all supports are in a position to do that though. Yes, many of them have been helped with the changes to sightstone, but Sona is only just now beginning to recover from the massive nerfs that they hit her with. She can't handle any more nerfs. Between my normal and ranked matches, I probably have thousands of matches played with her, and my win rate has dropped almost 20% since last season because of the nerfing. It's so disheartening that I find myself not even wanting to play League at all anymore.

Sona is one of the few supports that isnt broken atm, so she doesnt need nerfs.

Her items do need tho, if shes too weak after she can be re-buffed.

OnlyYouCanHearMeFeb 18, 20181 votes

She's already too weak. It would be nice if they would give her a buff that was more than a whopping 10 mana cost reduction on one spell. She's currently out-damaged, out-shielded, out-healed, out-crowd-controlled, out-mobilized, and pretty much out-classed by every other support. If you nerfed the items, she'd be even more nonviable than she is now. And it pains me to say that, because I'm pretty much a one-trick Sona main.

AhristocatsFeb 19, 20181 votes

sona is among the worst champions in this game bro

she needs a rework