Boards›Gameplay

So, in 10 days season 8 will start, let's judge the keystones

Ahristocats··39 votes·3,140 views

Glacial augment: too situational, don't think it's weak just that you have to get it on the right champions

Kleptomancy: extremely broken and morever i hope that it gets nerfed into oblivion because the state of toplane is "who can abuse comet and kleptomancy the most" klepto on nasus, illaoi, jax, fiora and of course gangplank this is a bad design, you can SINGLE handly win top by getting an elexir of strength at lvl 2 or 3 and it's not over because you can get an elixir of skill in the game, or you can't, so your entire game will be different based on if you're lucky or not. because this game needed more RNG in toplane after tryndamere. without talking about the nasus/gangplank build with kleptomancy and item 3301 where they just forget to farm and only poke you, and apparently it's working out for nasus? since ancient coin starting has 59% win rate in plat+ and 56% win rate in diamond+ https://i.gyazo.com/fcf839a9ae42fcc63fd2ba2a55b5bf68.png Remove kleptomancy from the game, or remove the consumable thing .

Unsealled spellbook: Cool keystone, allows for a lot of strat and high IQ decisions not weak, not op, seems like Malzahar is overperforming with it though

Guardian: Nothing major to say, good keystone

Aftershock: Seems too strong on tank supports, but enchanters are also on the same page than them so it shouldn't be a problem

Grasp: Isn't overpowered, just ornn being stupid with it

Phase rush: it feels like this keystone is a joke to be fair I would like to calmly ask riot to revert it to SRS, you ruined the keystone by changing it like that the cooldown has been doubled The bonus movement speed has been nuked so hard and the 3 hit gimick has NOT been a buff for anyone, any mage, any juggernaut (nasus for instance) or the so relying on stormraider Mordekaiser (so relying because DFT was x15 times stronger) prefered the old SRS version as they could get the bonus movement speed/slow resistance too quickly. The only one that got buffed with stormraider was Darius as he can proc it faster now (E+AA+W) but it's so bad that it doesn't matter, and he takes it because nothing else is strong on him, grasp was always only strong in early game (due to it being magic damage) and fervor was removed, the precision tree sucks for bruisers. Please just revert phase rush, you should totally be able to see that it caused more destruction than anything else

Aery: Seems too strong on echanters, but tank supports are also on the same page than them so it shouldn't be a problem Made ranged poke obnoxious in the toplane Gnar Jayce

Comet: hahahaha, this keystone is so funny because this keystone combined with mana flow band and scorch is like, ruining the toplane. Comet and kleptomancy made toplane, but also any other lane with comet and kleptomancy (ezreal miss fortune bot lane) so bad to play. the lane interaction is "poke to either deal massive damage, get gold or bonus free things" mana flow band and scorch made it worse Toplane is basically overpowered things like ornn, and "can you abuse comet and klepto?" Sion went from 2% pick rate and 51% win rate, to 5 or 6% pick rate and 50% win rate (which means his sample increased by the way) thanks to comet+mana flow band+scorch. Camille and olaf abuse the high amount of poke it gives To give you an idea, http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=gobgg here is a friend of mine that is one of the most dedicated high elo toplaner i know with someone else If you take a look at his most played champions in season 7, you see champions like kled or aatrox If you take a look at his most played champions in preseason however, you see Sion, malphite, champions he never played before and now plays them in diamond1/master That is what it is, Champions like Sion who can abuse comet are so strong, probably not the strongest champions (maybe i don't know) but definitly champions that are able to compet with FOTM and high elo picks But it isn't only comet, it's the entire sorcery tree that i knew was busted the day it got teased on PBE Comet+scorch+mana flow band is a huge problem that needs to be fixed asap along with kleptomancy because it makes lanes so uninteractive, you don't need to be careful at trades or things like that, you're just able to infinitly poke with huge damage and autowin lanes by doing that

https://youtu.be/yy68Ff2BW-E Dark harvest I won't comment on the power of this keystone, never really played against But i wonder how riot came up with the idea of infinity scaling damage in the jungle when feral flare and devourer were so problematic in the past just because of that

Electrocute: Nothing really changed since thunderlord

Predator: Too weak, too counterable in my opinion, one slow and it's over

Flee footwork: healthier version of warlord, not strong enough on AP champions imo but that's also because the precision tree is inferior to the sorcery tree on AP champions

Lethal tempo: i like how this keystone is healthy because it doesn't give marksmen power in laning phase (i mean it can but you can back off once the buff lingers) might be weak tho , but it's like dark harvest, i can't judge this keystone because i never see it

Press the attack: why did you remove fervor to introduce a keystone that is so punishing for bruisers? Most of them prefer AD than damage amplfication, which doesn't work on true damage But the most important question is why did ranged champions lose the penality of being ranged when it comes to stacking power? Fervor had 8 stacks and melee champions stacked it twice faster i don't understand why adcs have 3 keystones (plus things like comet and kleptomancy) and one of them is totally better on them than on melee characters like master yi who by the way dropped hard in win rate (but is fine cuz getting buffed with tryndamere according to meddler) Press the attack needs to have 6 stacks with melees stacking it twice faster This is a huge nerf to lucian who's already bad, but we can buff him later

Also, Buff Renekton already

74 Comments

PhantomPrankster18 votes

please do get rid of klepto that shit is absurd and people are calling for nerfs on characters because of it

Hibeki3 votes

to be fair Ezreal is the one that should be nerfed. He abuses things endlessly.

PhantomPrankster1 votes

{quoted}

to be fair Ezreal is the one that should be nerfed. He abuses things endlessly.

Meanwhile before this pre season patch ezreal was barely viable

Fuck off with that

Hibeki1 votes

Because nothing was good enough for him to abuse well enough.

Wow who would have thought

DeusVult3 votes

Klepto in theory is OK, but the people who can abuse it (GP, Ez) break it far too hard, and the RNG items need to go. They needed to go yesterday, in the trash along with Zoe's RNG W system.

Kubox2 votes

Pretty much.

The thing needs a proper cooldown and be adjusted to it so that the main users can no longer abuse it while champions that would consider it but can't because they can't proc it every 5 seconds.

At the very least, I'd like to see it changed that way for a couple patches and if it still proves troublesome (or even more, since more champions would be able to use it), then remove it.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

{quoted}

...because they can't proc it every 5 seconds.

You can actually proc it every 2 seconds. Which is why noone comes anywhere near as close to maximum procs as Ezreal does.

Kubox1 votes

Eh, Sona used to proc it about as often because of the AA range increase.

I honestly almost wish they reworked the rune into something centered around that instead of rng items. Though to be fair, I don't know how healthy or balanced that would be (then again, kelpto is being complained about for being both of those anyway).

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Welcome to the problem with keystones as a concept. Keystones are broken on the champions they fit, must be balanced to that case, and then are underwhelming on anyone else meaning only maybe 24-36 champions can use the system appropriately and the rest then have to be tuned around not having a keystone.

leakinb4 votes

I agree with most of your points but I just want to address 3 keystone Phase rush is so trash atm Don't get why they add slow resistance to ranged champ also they can already proc it much more easier A super trash version of SRS

PTA and tempo should have different proc mechanism for melee and ranged And the stat (AS) from precision tree is ONLY suitable for most of ADCs that other champs with sustain dmg (bruisers, dps AP champ etc) cannot benefit from it

Ahristocats3 votes

Bruisers are bad with attack speed that's why, most of them do not scale with it Jax is a melee carry (skirmisher), irelia is the only bruiser that scales with it Xin zhao W cast time is reduced with attack speed, he fits more with the definition of a skirmisher anyway (instead of a diver) Camille is way stronger with AD than attack speed, her W makes her not using attack speed for a long time Same with darius and his Q same with renekton (huge cast time on W E and R)

they should not change the attack speed of precision

Darius Q cast time should be reduced with attack speed, like xin zhao Camille same with her W Renekton W cast time should be reduced with attack speed

PopcornBunni1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YE4MTpAT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-01-04T14:03:22.438+0000)

Bruisers are bad with attack speed that's why, most of them do not scale with it Jax is a melee carry (skirmisher), irelia is the only bruiser that scales with it Xin zhao W cast time is reduced with attack speed, he fits more with the definition of a skirmisher anyway (instead of a diver) Camille is way stronger with AD than attack speed, her W makes her not using attack speed for a long time Same with darius and his Q same with renekton (huge cast time on W E and R)

they should not change the attack speed of precision

Darius Q cast time should be reduced with attack speed, like xin zhao Camille same with her W Renekton W cast time should be reduced with attack speed

Please define bruisers and what differentiates them from Juggernauts and Divers

Ahristocats4 votes

bruiser is a synonym of fighter=juggernauts and divers most of them scale poorly with attack speed

Sujiren3 votes

Darius Doesn't really scale with attack speed, but definetely enjoys having atleast a bit of attack speed. I can't stand building item 3071without any as. With old runes Darius used to get 20% at level 1. A lot of Darius mains switched to item 3078 +item 3053 to compensate for lost attack speed and ad.

LostFr0st4 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YE4MTpAT,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-04T13:15:56.363+0000)

Well this is a fun post^^

Glacial augment: too situational, don't think it's weak just that you have to get it on the right champions

Yeah, it's fighting too much with Klepto/spellbook for its viability.

I want to joke that with the extra gold the others produce (through kills/procs) the champs could just buy item 3116 /item 3022 /item 3025 if they wanted to and then still get the passives of Klepto and Unsealed on top.

Kleptomancy: extremely broken and morever i hope that it gets nerfed into oblivion because the state of toplane is "who can abuse comet and kleptomancy the most" klepto on nasus, illaoi, jax, fiora and of course gangplank this is a bad design, you can SINGLE handly win top by getting an elexir of skill at lvl 2 because this game needed more RNG in toplane after tryndamere. without talking about the nasus/gangplank build with kleptomancy and item 3301 where they just forget to farm and only poke you, and apparently it's working out for nasus? since ancient coin starting has 59% win rate in plat+ and 56% win rate in diamond+ https://i.gyazo.com/fcf839a9ae42fcc63fd2ba2a55b5bf68.png Remove kleptomancy from the game, or remove the consumable thing .

Would making it proc on autos with a cd (like spellthiefs but without the minion-kill increased cd) be more fair? And why does it have 10 seconds of leeway on-proc?

[...]

Phase rush: it feels like this keystone is a joke to be fair I would like to calmly ask riot to revert it to SRS, you ruined the keystone by changing it like that the cooldown has been doubled The bonus movement speed has been nuked so hard and the 3 hit gimick has NOT been a buff for anyone, any mage, any juggernaut (nasus for instance) or the so relying on stormraider Mordekaiser (so relying because DFT was x15 times stronger) prefered the old SRS version as they could get the bonus movement speed/slow resistance too quickly. The only one that got buffed with stormraider was Darius as he can proc it faster now (E+AA+W) but it's so bad that it doesn't matter, and he takes it because nothing else is strong on him, grasp was always only strong in early game (due to it being magic damage) and fervor was removed, the precision tree sucks for bruisers. Please just revert phase rush, you should totally be able to see that it caused more destruction than anything else

To be fair it's more viable on kite mages now since the proc is more reliable. I don't know if that's worth the losses on other champs though.

Aery: Seems too strong on echanters, but tank supports are also on the same page than them so it shouldn't be a problem Made ranged poke extremely obnoxious in the toplane Gnar Jayce

Yes.

[...]

Fleet footwork: healthier version of warlord, not strong enough on AP champions imo but that's also because the precision tree is inferior to the sorcery tree on AP champions

It would be really fun on kite mages, but as you stated: precision bonus... Also a lack of universally good secondaries. We need an AP champ-oriented Legend rune at the very least.

Lethal tempo: i like how this keystone is healthy because it doesn't give marksmen power in laning phase (i mean it can but you can back off once the buff lingers) might be weak tho , but it's like dark harvest, i can't judge this keystone because i never see it

As stated above by you, 1.5 seconds is a really long time for a trade (for melee at least); it just takes so long to kick in and the effect on the champ broadcasts the coming power so enemies just nope nope nope out of there.

Edit: removed the ones I didn't comment on to make reading easier

Ahristocats3 votes

{quoted}

Would making it proc on autos with a cd (like spellthiefs but without the minion-kill increased cd) be more fair?

definitly a better idea, spamming on hit spells would be inferior to that if you make it so you need to autoattack a lot to get golds though i'm still convinced that the RNG drop mechanic has to go

LostFr0st1 votes

It having a 2sec Keystone cd but a 10 second leeway is definitely adding to the inconsistency between champions. They'd need to up the gold per hit though accordingly (ofc).

Another thing I'd like an opinion on:

Occasionally, you will gain a consumable item instead. If you gain a consumable item while your inventory is full, the consumable will instead be consumed.

How much hidden power does this give the Keystone?

Kubox1 votes

Not that much, the problem is not that they're consumed but that you can have so many at once. My friends use to joke at the fact that once I hit late-game as Sona my buff bar looked like something straight out of WoW.

If anything, giving the rune a proper cd would fix this without making it rather useless at 6 items.

LostFr0st1 votes

What I meant is that mid/late-game when more item slots are filled there is a high chance that health potions, mana potions, and other items get auto-used during combat. Popping a pot or not can mean life or death in some fights. The rune does that automatically.

Kubox1 votes

Meh, I'd square the hidden power to the items themselves, not being consumed automatically. If they need to, tweak the items one can get late-game and/or their drop rate, but telling a player that they can't get a 6th item because their rune needs a slot would feel very shitty.

You have to keep in mind that, for better or worst, those random stat gains also replace Fleet's movespeed and healing or PTA's damage boost. Yes, people are surviving because of potion. Just like some people survive off Aery, Guardian or kill their opponent faster because of PTA, etc.

I'd be interested in how impactful, at it's luckiest, Klepto is vs the other runes, as well as it's worst.

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

Meh, I'd square the hidden power to the items themselves, not being consumed automatically. If they need to, tweak the items one can get late-game and/or their drop rate, but telling a player that they can't get a 6th item because their rune needs a slot would feel very shitty.

Yes, you're right. Was just thinking about the extra stuff the rune does (like how they removed the range bonus on it).

You have to keep in mind that, for better or worst, those random stat gains also replace Fleet's movespeed and healing or PTA's damage boost. Yes, people are surviving because of potion. Just like some people survive off Aery, Guardian or kill their opponent faster because of PTA, etc.

I'd be interested in how impactful, at it's luckiest, Klepto is vs the other runes, as well as it's worst.

Same here. Also interested in how their balance decision of replacing mana pots for bags of gold on manaless champs panned out. Seems to be a good enough incentive that they sometimes still take Klepto even if they only get one potion resource.

(Legit just wondering about Klepto in general really; the rune has a lot of facets to look at.)

AirKingNeo4 votes

Grasp seems pretty broken when it's letting tanks beat bruisers early and outscale them.

Ahristocats3 votes

except the only tank that can 1v1 me in early as darius is ornn

Raven Redeemed6 votes

To be fair, eating tanks for breakfast (1v1) is what Darius does best. The same can not be said of other bruisers.

Ahristocats6 votes

this should tell you how ornn is stupid then

Raven Redeemed2 votes

No argument here. That guy has pretty much got everything going for him, at least against immobile melees.

NaturesMayhem1 votes

Besides Illaoi, I find that she can punish Ornn's engage fairly well and push him out of lane with the consistent pressure.

AirKingNeo1 votes

You know Darius is a tank obliterator, right? He isn't the only champion.

Jax, Kled, Irelia, Aatrox exist too.

invisiblecat13 votes

How does Jax "obliterate" tanks?

AirKingNeo1 votes

You misunderstood. Darius is just good vs tanks. Jax existing means he should take into account Jax exists and as good as Darius against tanks.

Ralanr2 votes

Honestly in theory Jax is only good against tanks 1v1 late.

He’s weak/squishy early and relies on sticking to his target to get the max damage which is difficult early game and dangerous to him.

Divine Thighs2 votes

Get bramble vest first on a tank and Aatrox is fucked.

Daunt4 votes

I'd tone down the damage creep overall, and not just the keystones. My eyes wanna start bleeding when i see Janna running around taking off half hp from enemies due to having a keystone that can also provide damage as an enchanter.

Aery and Comet are generally too good. If you nerf them too much mages will be shit but if you leave it as it is everything else will suffer. I think Sorcery really needs new keystones to replace the generalists such as Aery and Comet.

Phase rush is nonexistant and it's sad that it's so. The poll on which Riot asked which keystone should be left had Stormraider's with most upvotes yet it went through the most nerfs.

I feel like Manaflow Band shouldn't exist. What was the point of adding that into the game? Nobody needs to manage their mana anymore and every champion that runs it can spam their abilities now. Scorch adds up to the damage creep and is a better version of Cheap shot. Absolute focus is completely useless. Nullifying orb is annoying since Hexdrinker already exists.

Nerf Electrocute a bit as well so it's abusers don't become too dominant. Ravenous Hunter offers too much sustain. Dark harvest needs additional work. If it ever gets buffed it will be completely busted.

PTA is either really bad on some champions or stupidly strong on others. The damage amp at the end of the Precision tree should do less damage. Triumph is generally still too good while the other 2 runes are niches.

Aftershock might be too strong. I think tanks do way too much damage with it, especially the engage supports.

Kleptomancy is just plain stupid. Too good on anything that can remotely use it. Get rid of it or make really big changes to it.

Also the adaptive AP/AD that we get on the start could take a hit. And why are people getting more if they go with Inspiration as their primary tree? Don't they already get rewarded by being able to use stuff like Klepto or Spellbook?

EDIT on the Klepto part ; It might actually be okay it's just that it SHOULDN'T be the primary choice for champions such as Illaoi or Fiora. It should be a fun secondary build that is semi viable but gets the job done if people opt for it. We are in need of more keystones.

To me it looks like not enough testing went into this before it arrived on the live AND PBE servers.

Sujiren2 votes

Regarding elixir of skill, wouldn't that theorically allow Udyr to get 5 points in all stances if he gets lucky? Broken synergy detected kappa.

Ahristocats1 votes

No because elixir of skill allows you to have your skills at rank 5 faster, but if you already have all spells rank 5 at lvl 17 (with 3 points in ults) the lvl 18 won't give you any skill points

Ralanr15 votes

But it does make the skill point upgrade tab pop up and stay for the rest of the game.

Which is tilting.

nm10108 votes

Actually Udyr can get 2 elixirs of skill and reach 20 skill points, its one of the only useful things I've learned from Trick in preseason

https://youtu.be/rgmuGig_z0I?t=7m55s

Ahristocats4 votes

i see my bad then

invisiblecat12 votes

Phase rush just sucks, as it only really works on champions who have burst in their kit AND multiple abilities giving damage This makes it so the mages can't really use the sorcery keystone, as most of their kits don't allow for it to proc with the 3 damaging skill requirement

Skorch2 votes

The issue I believe with devourer was the whole "AFK till stacked" thing, not the infinite scaling itself though. Cant speak on feral flare however.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

FF needed to be stacked to be converted from Wriggle's Lantern. Same issue.

sadaiblast2 votes

For the most part I agree with most of this post and i think that it's great that the community is going into some depth into discussing the keystones in general, I would like to put a few of my own thoughts out there for anyone who cares to read them as well as to add on to some of what you had already said

  • glacial augment:

I made a pretty long post on this myself here if you want to look into it and for that reason i wont discuss it here.

  • klepto:

on paper i think that this is a very cool and well thought out idea imo, but its less broken but more on par with being too easy to abuse, the rune itself is balanced if it wasn't for the fact that some champions (namely the ones you specifically mentioned) that can proc it too consistently. Now there are some problems with the RNG but i dont think thats too much of an issue because it's more input RNG rather than output RNG, meaning that its telegraphed to both you and your oppnent but i do agree that the duration of these elixirs are wayyyy to long early game. personally i have more of an issue with the sustain items that this rune can provide you with, i feel that the biggest issue with this rune is how much lane sustain and free warding you can get with it, but overall for a fix to this i think it should only be able to be proc'd once every X seconds alongside how it current works, as well as giving more flat gold and less in the way of actual items, although i still think that it should give items.

another idea i had for this was that rather than instantly getting the item in your inventory, upon proc'ing the klepto effect, it should drop the item on the floor similarly to how champions drop summoner spells and active effects, and it would have the same biases and requirements to pick up the items (namely always spawning further away from you behind the enemy champ requiring you to take a little risk to pick them up) alongside the changes i proposed above.

also on a side note i honest to god feel like support items are a complete mess ATM but that warrants its own discussion, but i just want to point out that support items are a huge mess ATM.

  • unsealed spellbook:

Cool and balanced keystone, a good choice on literally every champ regardless of what their optimal keystone would or should be. this is how i think the rune system should be for the most part but i digress

honestly though i feel like although most people feel like its a high IQ keystone, it really isn't, although yes, smart players can abuse this much better than most people.

as for changes to this rune, i feel like it should be more akin to how it was on the pbe pre-release at one point, giving less summoner spell cooldown but giving a MASSIVE cooldown reward to players who are constantly switching up their keystones, i think this would make the keystone a much cooler and higher skillcap keystone as well as a more appealing choice to champions who like to take other keystones but are usually gated into taking teleport as a toplaner, yes i do believe that this could possibly further diversify summoner spell choices for the toplane so that like 90% of toplaners are gated into taking teleport as one of their summoner spells.

...but why fix something thats not even broken, right?

  • Guardian:

maybe a higher AP ratio on it would be more appealing to more supports that are usually gated into taking aery all the time, but like i said before, why fix something thats not broken (riot pls though if you read this can we please make this a reality, I'm sick of aery being the optimal rune on like 50% of supports)

  • Aftershock:

maybe a slightly higher cooldown and make it more telegraphed for when it's up AKA giving both the user and the opponents a heads up for when to engage vs when to not engage. Personally i feel like the only big problem with this rune is the lack of clarity for both parties knowing when its up or not, but aside from that i feel like its in a pretty good spot (although i wish there was a way so make it so that the bonus stats didn't add onto the MR/ARMOR scaling of some champions kits but eh...)

  • Grasp:

I've always personally felt it was a little weak but most people say its pretty well balanced, and i have no particularly good way of addressing what i feel is weak about this rune, so ill stay quiet on this one (although i think that it'd be cool if it wasn't as weakened for ranged champions DONT SHOOT ME ITS MY OPINION)

  • Phase Rush:

more or less 100% agree with everything you said here. anything i could say would just be repeating what you already wrote, only objection i have is that the bonus MS getting nuked was kinda needed, but not to this extent

  • Aery&Commet:

I HATE BOTH OF THESE RUNES WITH A PASSION, its just thunderlords syndrome all over again... you see here, when thunderlords was first released there was a reason it was called the 'thunderlords' meta' and that was because for pretty much any champion with even a small amount of offensive capabilities this just gave them free damage. i want to talk about both these runes but i can write an entire forum post alone on each of these so ill stay quiet for now.

  • Dank Harvest:

infinitely scaling power isn't really an issue at all (except on aram on the rune's release.) This rune is pretty well balanced, and its very very good on "reset Assassins" aka champions that get some sort of ability reset on a kill and etc, just take what you wrote on lethal tempo and translate it from the ADC world to the ASSASSIN world (note: i just realised you also compared this rune to lethal tempo as well XD)

  • Eletrocute:

personally i think this rune is wayyy stronger as well as wayyy healthier than its older counterpart for many reasons, most of those reasons really boiling down to the fact that its no longer just free random damage but rather requires a little more dedication and timing, but instead being rewarded with much more damage in turn. maybe a little too much damage is given by the fact that its adaptive damage thus scaling with whichever pen you decide to build (lethality vs MPen) but overall even with that i dont think it needs any changes except for some clarity for when you/your opponent has the keystone up

  • Predator:

I've talked about this rune alot and why people dont understand its true potential... but literally not a single person listens to what i have to say about it, still complaining about the same issues over and over again so I've given up talking about until i decide to do a forum post on it

  • Fleet:

i feel this rune should change how it proc's based on if your building an auto-attacker vs a caster, treating it like an energized proc on AD champs and like a Ludens proc on AP champs, aside from that the rune is perfectly balanced (just reduce the crit bonus healing from 40% to 30% imo)

  • lethal tempo:

yeah pretty much what you said :D

  • Press the Keystone:

again agree with what you said, except make it 5 hits needed, so melee champs still need 3 but ranged need 5.

either that or make it so that the debuff only lasts 3 seconds proc'd by a melee vs 6 seconds for ranged so that melee's can proc the bonus damage much more consistently on melees that like longer trades and fights.

or make it so that melee's get a small MS boost towards whoever they proc'd it on for 2 seconds.

honestly i can come up with like 9 different changes right off the top of my head for this rune to balance it out better but again i digress.

Feel free to discuss any of these points as you would like, i will gladly respond to any idea's or thoughts you have on anything i said :)

Penns1 votes

Remove kleptomancy from the game

dats what I said when it was released, no champ actually needs it (Grasp for Illaoi/Nasus, Press the Attack for Ez tho he needs it the most) but its just too RNG and gimmicky.

Unsealed Spellbook is getting picked more and more, it might be considered too strong soon.

I think Guardian and Aftershock might need a nerf too tbh.

SSR was too good, Phase Rush seems too weak, not sure if it should be reverted without a smaller nerf.

Comet probably needs a nerf, but the others already got nerfed. I think everyone takes them just because other runes like Nullifying Orb and Waterwalking arent that important.

Also remember when you said adcs dont have sustain anymore? Fleet Footwork or something else is gonna get nerfed soon if people keep going item 3302 with Overheal, Fleet Footwork and Bloodline on champs like Varus and Vayne lul.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

I think Guardian and Aftershock might need a nerf too tbh.

why? if tanks and enchanters are on the same wave length you don't need to touch them

You might want to nerf aftershock for other tanks like maokai or rammus, but guardian is only taken on tank supports

{quoted}

SSR was too good

well that's the first time i hear this

but the others already got nerfed. I think everyone takes them just because other runes like Nullifying Orb and Waterwalking arent that important.

fair enough, i agree that ultimore, hexdrinker rune, and gathering storm are not on point

Also remember when you said adcs dont have sustain anymore? Fleet Footwork or something else is gonna get nerfed soon if people keep going item 3302 with Overheal, Fleet Footwork and Bloodline on champs like Varus and Vayne lul.

Vayne is overpowered alone, it has nothing to do with fleet footwork

Penns1 votes

Idk, Guardian is the highest win rate keystone on like every support. Low pick rate tho so.. either sleeper opie or idk xd

Some enchanters are good, but it mostly looks like Alistar Taric Leona and Shen dominating

well that's the first time i hear this

So many champs swapped to SRS, Syndra, Taliyah, Talon, Kha, Rengar,.. It was opie imo.

Vayne yeah but http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Tristana and http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Varus is looking like a problem xd

Ahristocats2 votes

Guardian's win rate is bad on blitzcrank

Also it's not "some enchanters" it's every enchanters except Sona

And just make targon melee only, doesn't matter if thresh uses it one champion being crippled can be fixed easily

Poske1 votes

i would like to redifine topplane for you

its comet+scorch pantheon/malphize/olaf abuse

Or it is taking essentially a champion who can proc klepto from range

Gangplank,Ilaoi, EVEN fking swain

Fiora is just strong in general, quite sure she doesnt like klepto that much

Ranged champions still are to insane at top

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

  • 2 hits vs 4 hits PTA for ranged vs melee.

  • LT needs to be modified ranged vs melee. Melees should have no charge time but perhaps reduced buff duration. Short reliable burst of power for AS bruisers rather than a long buff that they'd usually not get to use much anyway.

LOSINGISMYPRIDE1 votes

wht crazy is that you can get a skill point elexir with , more hp from the tenacity elexir too .

General Esdeath 1 votes

But the most important question is why did ranged champions lose the penality of being ranged when it comes to stacking power?

Because Riot's balance team legit has no clue what they're doing. They don't even remember why they made fervor stack twice as fast on melee champs. God please Riot just get a new balance team.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Ahristocats

I just can't play League anymore....
Gameplay334 comments
306
votes
So this is the Future
Gameplay222 comments
205
votes
Okay, you want to know what is wrong with the kog buff in next patch?
Gameplay168 comments
186
votes
Riot, I DON'T want to play with premades
Gameplay120 comments
179
votes
i'm fucking tired of jayce seriously
Gameplay149 comments
177
votes
Counterplay to a champion should not be "destroy them before X minutes"
Gameplay262 comments
162
votes