Boards›Gameplay

Am I the only one getting this?

Zombiephil··14 votes·1,537 views

Am I the only one experiencing frustrations of teammates who refuse to all group mid late game? You give them 15 commands in game, and they will follow 14 of them. The one, "ALL MID", is always the one not followed. Even my jungler will gank top if I ask him nicely in the chat. But it seems like typing "all mid please" never works. And it's always how my teams throw. Like seriously.

Last game: We had a great early and mid game. I was extremely tanky and pretty fed as Shen top. Leblanc mid and Jax jungle were also extremely fed. But as late game rolls around, so does the new meta: Late Game throws. Seriously.

Leblanc and I tell the team to go all mid. Then, "Retard Mode" switch gets flipped to "on" like it always does for my teams. We killed dragon a minute ago, yet right as the team is getting ready for a team fight, Jax goes and kills the Rift Scuttler near dragon. WHY? Then I quickly realized it was a 4v5 and told my team to not engage. Of course Vayne, 6-14-4, decides it's a good idea to go in first. Immediately gets caught, then the enemy picks of Jax who is still busy chasing the Rift Scuttler, and we lose 2 right there. But that was just the start of a horrible late game. Later on, Jax decides to go solo Baron while the entire enemy is pushing mid. I decided I couldn't let him execute to it since he was our most fed one. So me and him kill it, but in the process, our second most fed one, Leblanc, is killed and so is our Mid inhib. Another bad move by Jax trying to solo Baron when we told him to all mid. Again, why do players become really dumb late game? After that, our team does another horrible engage, Vayne and Blitzcrank, get caught out, AND THEN Leblanc DECIDES TO RECALL OUTSIDE A BUSH. WTF. And then the deciding play. As me and Leblanc are about to revive, Jax decides it's a good idea to engage in a 3v5 with me and my teammates telling him to wait for the rest of us to revive. 2 of them die, and we lose the game right there. And that's just last game.

A couple of games back, I typed "ALL MID"... and 2 seconds later I see MasterYi summoner 12 up mid with item 3250 and Ult and running at Riven and 2 other enemies and dying there. I pinged "Fall Back" on him the entire time. He refused to listen. I understand that I am in Bronze, but seriously, do teammates not know what "group" means, or do they just refuse to listen? To be honest, I really think Riot should start Ranked Restricting players who refuse to work with the team. I know Riot doesn't and shouldn't punish players for being bad at the game, but to miss simple commands like "all mid" or just simply not cooperating with the team is unacceptable. The main objective of the game is to work as a team and take the Nexus.

34 Comments

Qazgir6 votes

While I can understand you point, you are asking Rito to punish people for not doing what you want them to do. Even if it is better for your team. If this is what they are going to do, should they be playing ranked? Probably not, but you cant really stop them from doing it.

Zombiephil3 votes

{quoted}

While I can understand you point, you are asking Rito to punish people for not doing what you want them to do. Even if it is better for your team. If this is what they are going to do, should they be playing ranked? Probably not, but you cant really stop them from doing it.

I see your point there too, but if multiple teammates ask one to group mid, the entire enemy is pushing down mid as a group of 5, and that teammate decides to go kill a jungle minion, then that seems like he's not trying to help the team nor trying to win the game. Now if he was split-pushing.. then that's a different story.

Qazgir3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dumb Monster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YA85K1U0,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-06-07T15:49:20.638+0000)

I see your point there too, but if multiple teammates ask one to group mid, the entire enemy is pushing down mid as a group of 5, and that teammate decides to go kill a jungle minion, then that seems like he's not trying to help the team nor trying to win the game. Now if he was split-pushing.. then that's a different story.

Yea they are being detrimental to the team, Yea they prob shouldent be playing ranked, but your still asking Rito to punish people for playing the game how they want to play. How they want to play may be bad for your team, it may be bad for the game as a whole, but so long as they are not Purposefully making detrimental choices, they should not be punished. If Rito did that it would be like Rito punishing you for not picking a champ that does not work with your team comp. Its may be detrimental to the game but its how they want to play.

MohawkBird4 votes

[deleted]

I Main Swain2 votes

well they may not see something as best for the team that you do. I cant count the number of games that I have had turned because of split pushing or a single champ making solo plays. there are an enormous number of games as well in which grouping is one of the worst possible things you could do.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

I Main Swain2 votes

ehhh, really not that rare. in low elo i would say it's about 50 50 because people are stupid and split push at bad times but the enemy team is often also stupid and lets them go to town. "inhib for dragon? totes wurf." it honestly happens all the time, definitely plenty that they shouldn't just ban all players who don't want to teamfight, which as i said is often the worst thing you could possibly do.

Shifune5 votes

As Shen, you should never be grouped with your team to begin with, You should be splitting bot/top and ult in when they start fighting. My problem is that people like you believe that grouping mid is always the most effective way to end a game. That strategy entirely depends on your team comp.

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

Shifune2 votes

Here's the thing though. He is Shen, so if the enemy engages, he just has to ult in. That is how Shen is played. He also said that his team was "extremely" fed, so holding their own until Shen's ult channels should not be a problem for them.

EDIT: Also, depending on how far down the lane you are when split pushing, you can choose not to ult in and take an inhib turret/inhib while they are distracted with your team; however, this should only be done if you are confident that your team can stall a 4v5 without them all dying.

thepay32 votes

same thing almost happened to me in normals. We won but they almost threw.

Zombiephil1 votes

{quoted}

same thing almost happened to me in normals. We won but they almost threw.

I'm 76-87 in ranked right now. That record could be backwards, I've been in probably at least 11 throws, and like 70 near-throws. I started in Bronze 5, almost made it to Bronze 2, but my team throws when I'm at 78 lp Bronze 3, 28-21 win-loss, because someone flipped "Retard Mode" on my teammates, they refuse to work as a team, I go on a crazy tilt after that, and I still haven't recovered since. That throw still haunts me today when I look at my profile page that has "Bronze IV" on it. I could be Bronze 1 right now. The closest I've been since is the Bronze 3 promos, which I lost 0-2. It's impossible to climb with all these stupid people throwing. Solo Queue is literally "solo". This sucks because I love to play Shen, but that's also the champion that requires a good team. I've only carried as Shen once, and that was a normals. Shen is more of a team player. Sadly, Solo Queue is the opposite. It's you 1v9ing. It's you carrying 4 idiots, looks like I gotta move on from this champ.

BigAL87992 votes

Yeah, I'm really getting sick of teams who refuse to group up. This happens all the time in normals too, and always on my side too. And yes, they really should punish players who don't work as a team, because the whole point of the game is the work together as a team and kill the enemy Nexus. The Jax you were talking about, that's nothing compared to some of the idiots I play with. I say "all mid" and next thing you know it 2 teammates decide it's a good idea to go chase the 0/9/11 Blitzcrank, he pulls them in, and next thing you know it, you just lost at least 2 teammates in a 4v2 trying to kill an 0/9/11 support who's worth no gold.

LegitBacon662 votes

Im getting sick of teams constantly farming and getting dragon or baron and the games over extend for no reason.

CubedJustice2 votes

Grouping isn't the end all be all strategy, though, you know. Grouping isn't always the best option, and your team comp wasn't even really designed for a mid game fight. It would have been just as well to let your Vayne and Jax scale while brute forcing down your tower top and mid.

warpenguin5552 votes

its even worse when you call all mid and one guy says "ya we need to end now" as he proceeds bot lane

NemeBro2 votes

If you were doing well as Shen, you should have probably been splitpushing, yeah.

To be honest your comp didn't really lend itself well to teamfighting. With a very fed Jax running devourer he should probably have also been splitpushing, with you top and him bottom that takes a lot of pressure off of mid. I highly doubt anyone on the enemy team could have dueled Jax, and you could have at least survived and escaped anyone trying to solo kill you. Splitpushing would also rack up a lot of gold for you.

Also, this is more general build advice, but I wouldn't build Frozen Mallet on Shen. A Wit's End would have been better IMO. It steals whoever you are fighting's magic resist, which synergizes well with Shen's Q, his passive, his taunt, as well as the sunfire he builds (also the thornmail I assume you were building). It makes Shen a deceptively strong duelist with solid survivability and sustained damage. A spirit visage might also be better than a Banshee's Veil due to its boost to your Q's health sustain and the CDR, but that's just my preference.

Also, to be real, grouping mid and forcing team fights would have been a bad move because... well, the enemy team was frankly winning. Check the recap. At no point did you all have gold advantage. There's more to the game than kills. LB may have had more kills than Vel, but he had over a hundred more CS than she did. Draven was much more fed than Vayne, and though you appeared to win lane, Jayce did eventually catch up.

Frank3271 votes

The other side of the coin:

  1. For Leblanc and Jax and Vayne their strength isn't 5v5 teamfights but skirmishes and 1v1 fights.

  2. The "all group mid" call too often turns the match into an ARAM where sidelanes are completely ignored. A better call would be "group for taking mid turret". It gets teamwork done, but everyone knows when it's a good idea to return to a place where they can actually get some farming done.

It's really frustrating to have a huge wave at toplane and no objective to take in midlane (your minion wave is nowhere near an enemy tower, dragon is not live), you tell them you're grabbing some farm in toplane yet they still engage. Then of course immediately you're blamed for not being with the team. The fault is not going toplane to farm a big minion wave and pushing it towards the enemy tower, the fault is in always looking for pointless teamfights when there's no advantage to be had.

Of course it depends on the composition, and if you don't have any teammates with waveclear then you might actually need everyone midlane.

FalconPawwwwnch1 votes

I think your main problem was that your team had a Jax on it

Snakezzy1 votes

I stopped reading when you said "I was extremely tanky and pretty fed as Shen top"

Zombiephil1 votes

[deleted]

Vincent Lucius1 votes

Howdy. May I suggest you check out something called Jeremy's Gaming Curios? It's a webseries on Youtube that goes of stuff like this( Going full tank vs taking one damage item, how to help an unintentionally feeding team get back into the game if you're doing well, how to look at your comp and figure out what to do when it comes to pushing) as well as having similar guides for other games like Hearthstone.

And I think the reason that Snakezzy stopped reading at that early point was less due to laziness than the fact that a lot of people who assume they're a lot better than they actually are at the game(Look up "I deserve challenjour") start their posts by listing that they did wonderfully and that their team was dragging them down. You at least were open to the people who gave the splitpushing suggestion, but a lot of people have just gotten sick of reading the usual QQ posts and dealing with that mentality.

Have luck in your next match.

Zombiephil2 votes

{quoted}

I stopped reading when you said "I was extremely tanky and pretty fed as Shen top"

Then your replies have 0 weight to me, thanks for letting me know. If you stopped reading at "X", click the X button on the top right corner of your screen and exit out of my post and don't even** think about** posting a reply to me. I do not need to waste 5 seconds of my life reading your garbage. And your comment is nothing but bad manners and you trying to make me look dumb. How about constructive criticism? You must be one of those players who just flame others who do bad in game thinking toxicity solves everything. Please just go away. If you do not read my post from Point A to Point Z, please just get the heck outta here. Thanks to those who actually read the post and said I should have split pushed. Thanks for letting me know what I did wrong, I'm not very experienced at the game and Snakezzy isn't helping.

BigAL87992 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dumb Monster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YA85K1U0,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2015-06-10T02:32:54.571+0000)

Then your replies have 0 weight to me, thanks for letting me know. If you stopped reading at "X", click the X button on the top right corner of your screen and exit out of my post and don't even** think about** posting a reply to me. I do not need to waste 5 seconds of my life reading your garbage. And your comment is nothing but bad manners and you trying to make me look dumb. How about constructive criticism? You must be one of those players who just flame others who do bad in game thinking toxicity solves everything. Please just go away. If you do not read my post from Point A to Point Z, please just get the heck outta here. Thanks to those who actually read the post and said I should have split pushed. Thanks for letting me know what I did wrong, I'm not very experienced at the game and Snakezzy isn't helping.

Yeah I agree. What's the point of saying, "OMFG NASUS YOU'RE SO USELESS WORST PLAYER EVER." Does it make Nasus play better when you say that? No, in fact it might make him play worse or make him start trolling and being toxic. Instead, he could be constructive and say, "Nasus please do not overextend so you don't die as much and Nunu can gank your lane."

Erockandroll1 votes

YoloQ is not Ranked Teams. Their is no shot caller. and You will only get hate if you try.

Also your team isn't made to team fight. Not with Jax, Leblanc, and Vayne. You should be split pushing.

LOL Spammer1 votes

Off*

Sorry what were you talking about?

RavenKouhai1 votes

I think a majority of people in low elo just don't get timing. I'm sure plenty of us have had a situation where you needed to quickly grab drag, but of course your jungle has to get scuttler first and you ultimately lose the dragon, right?

In Bronze people don't have any sense of urgency. They think: Drag up? Ok, get objective. Wait, here's scuttler! It's closer, and also an objective, so I better take it! In bronze, you say "group mid", but your team has no sense of urgency, so they figure they can mosey on over whenever they feel like it, and of course if their team dies, its their fault for fighting without them. If they're mid and they engage without the rest of the team, they convince themselves that everyone else should have been there

that's just low elo. and, i mean, yi and vayne are self explanatory

Zombiephil1 votes

{quoted}

I think a majority of people in low elo just don't get timing. I'm sure plenty of us have had a situation where you needed to quickly grab drag, but of course your jungle has to get scuttler first and you ultimately lose the dragon, right?

In Bronze people don't have any sense of urgency. They think: Drag up? Ok, get objective. Wait, here's scuttler! It's closer, and also an objective, so I better take it! In bronze, you say "group mid", but your team has no sense of urgency, so they figure they can mosey on over whenever they feel like it, and of course if their team dies, its their fault for fighting without them. If they're mid and they engage without the rest of the team, they convince themselves that everyone else should have been there

that's just low elo. and, i mean, yi and vayne are self explanatory

Yeah, I agree. Jax chased the scuttler when...

  1. We were preparing for a 5v5 team fight when he leaves
  2. We had just slain dragon, the timer was above 4 minutes.
Lugg1 votes

It depends on your team composition. Some comps are better all grouped, some are better spit-pushing.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

They need their item$.

Most of the time I won't actually group mid as a Top/Marksman until I have my first item, boots (at least tier 1) and a core component of my 2nd item (Zeal/Dagger as ADC or Warden's mail/giant's belt/spectre's cowl as a tank/bruiser).

There's no point grouping if none of your teammates are benefiting from any sort of powerspike.

My general rule if we have no clear advantage is don't group as 5 until all players on my team (save for maybe the support) have or about to have their rank II ultimate.

IcyPepper1 votes

2 ?s: Do you get teammates who refuse to group?/Should Riot ban players who don't work as a team from ranked?

Obviously the second is already a thing (refusing to communicate), but this implies that the first is the second.

Grouping mid is not the only solution to ending a game.

There are different strategies present in the game, that get more complex as you climb in elo.

However, your teammates did do stupid things. But sometimes forcing teamfights isn't always the answer, especially when behind. Grouping mid is a risk if you force a teamfight, especially when behind. Even when ahead, you can press your advantages in different ways than just grouping.

But communication is key.

Telling everyone to group mid and then getting mad is not how you do that. You do have the right idea about working together as a team, but that doesn't begin or end with grouping mid.

Team comp is essential. If you have a strong teamfighting comp, yes omg group mid plz! Sometimes you want to opt for split-pushing, whether or not you're behind (it provides pressure and forces the enemy team—if you main top, you know what I'm talking about). If people don't want to group mid, see what they're issue is. Sometimes they want to farm, or maybe they want scuttlebug for more vision. See if you can't compromise and whatnot, because you can beat people to death with the obvious solution and they still won't get it. Maybe you can convince that farming guy that he could get more kills if you set up the perfect bait to catch out that squishy, or something.

Just play to your team's strengths and weaknesses to get the best possible solution if grouping mid isn't a possibility with a numbskull.

tl;dr: Don't take me too seriously, just trying to help. Just keep doing your best.

Rabid Husky1 votes

its frustrating i know personally since i seem to get all 5 players in my lane under 10 mins while im alone with maybe my jungler but riot shouldn't punish teams for not grouping since if there in your lane that can mean 2 towers for maybe at worse your death and a tower

Fórsa1 votes

Well if they are REFUSING to communicate with team they must be punished. Like "fuck my team i will go splitpush/farm jungle all game and i don't care that we are stronger 5v5". But it's stupid. It's soloQ. it's the point of soloQ. Cuz you have to play solo and nobody have to follow your calls.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Zombiephil

"We've temporarily disabled Riven due to an in-game bug"
Gameplay261 comments
223
votes
STOP thinking you have to have to have to have to Baron before the game ends PLEASE
Gameplay139 comments
147
votes
PLEASE Give us invisible status, Riot
Gameplay41 comments
135
votes
WHO FED X???? SHUT UP!
Gameplay116 comments
112
votes
Can we please make it CLEAR that META Breaking is not bannable?
Gameplay173 comments
105
votes
So this stupid guys goes Ashe mid in game 3 of my promos....
Gameplay172 comments
103
votes