Ult damage lowered to 75% of current damage
Ult no longer knocks up targets hit from the initial targets knock back
Damage dealt to subsequent targets from this ultimate receive 50% of the damage from the ult
Can no longer ward jump to wards that have been placed** LESS THAN THREE SECONDS AGO**
Lee is now balanced
DarthSpectrum3 votesRiot will never agree to changes 2 and 4. Lee Sin isn't about his damage, mobility, or sustain, these are just nice side bonuses. The reason Riot won't nerf Lee Sin is due to his potential to make plays. Removing multiple knock backs on his ult and rapid ward jumping may balance him, but he cannot make these plays anymore.
Cale0171 votes^this
Removing the utility from his ult removes half of why it's there, especially since it already got absolutely smashed with the nerf hammer during season 4. And a large part of why he's so effective is his mobility, at one point last season they removed his ability to ward jump but quickly put it back on because it's so essential to really doing well with him and making solid plays. It might be annoying, but there's no avoiding that it's part of Lee Sin. Try and remember, though, that if he uses a ward to act as a getaway he also has one less ward to place in key areas of the map. It sorta balances itself out in that regard.
Hibeki3 votesI want to kick whoever makes decisions like this in the balls
You have the right to make money as a business, but when clearly everyone dislikes what you are doing, including your consumers, you shouldn't be doing it
Also, there are more than one person on a team that can ward, sightstone is a thing, and you get a free ward as a trinket.
Wasting wards isn't a problem, like at all.
Cale0171 votes*You have the right to make money as a business, but when clearly everyone dislikes what you are doing, including your consumers, but they continue to use your product you're allowed to do what you like with your own properties because they belong to you.
Which doesn't change that a ward that could have been placed in a more strategic area is now sitting int he middle of his own jungle to have helped him get over a wall, or in a random place halfway down a lane to assist him with an escape. You're right, everyone can ward, but considering that there is an actual emphasis on ward placement you also can't say wasting wards isn't a problem at all. It's one less ward you're allowed to have out on the map. If you don't have teammates who are giving vision like they should be, then it becomes an even larger problem.
DarthSpectrum2 votesThe problem is, a lot of people do like Lee Sin's current kit.
I believe that despite all the forms to nerf Lee Sin, those who think him overpowered are a minority, or perhaps only prevalent in NA. Chinese and Korean player bases absolutely love him.
SouL1ess1 votesLee's ult still has the highest base damage in the game, on-par with Leblanc's Mimic Sigil/Chain base damage.
It also has one of the highest Bonus AD scaling in the game. 2.0*Bonus AD on one ability is very good for any AD Caster.
It stuns for a good 1 second on all targets affected.
It also has the benefit of Jayce's E - when in doubt, press ult. The enemy is flying away while you do whatever you need to escape.
And if you somehow get behind a priority target it becomes a initiation move.
Lee Sin's ult serves as:
The drawback of that ult is cast range. That's it.
And what was the nerf on his ult? CD?
Cale0171 votesDamage. A significant amount. It used to have about 1200 base damage. They lowered the base damage but gave it more scaling.
SouL1ess1 voteswhat?
It used to have 600. It still have 600 now.
Were you looking at the April Fools Joke or something? 1200 base damage is not a "releasable" number. Syndra's ult only has 800 with 5 orbs.
MattAkhavan3 voteslee is also now the most boring champion in the game.
LankPants3 votesI know right, I'm sick of seeing him in every single fucking game.
Critmaster Garen3 voteshmm, i dont think just hitting the secondary effects on his ult is such a good idea.
lee is pretty anoying, but part of it is, that he often doesnt require a lot of thought to royally screw you over. on the other hand, its really hard to screw up on him, because hes so damn forgiving to play.
imo:
he should not be rewarded with free attack speed and energy return for missing his shit. if he wants his passive, she should actually be able to hit a champion with his spells.
if nothing else, give him at least that first and third change. he can keep his ability to make plays, if he just gets punished for screwing up for a change.
LankPants1 votesAlso increase his ult CD by 20-30 seconds if he doesn't kick you into anyone, that CD is just way too short for the power of the move.
Vicarious1172 votesOk, let's face it, anytime Riot offers up some sort of nerf to put Lee in line with basically any other champ in the game, the Lee-playing community will completely freak out and harass the living f**k out of Riot just like they did the last time, and Riot will back off and give him some little itty bitty nerf then buff something else real lightly just to keep the Lee community from crying again.
We're stuck with this entirely unbalanced champ for how ever long this game stays alive.
Dreadlocks1 votesSo much facepalm.. Just no...
TheFallenShaw1 votesYou guys are wrong its a racist thing bc Lee is asian, thats why they wont nerf
SummonerSquid1 votesWhy do people complain about this champion again? He's versatile, but you have to pick whether you are going to be a tank or damage dealer. He isn't very naturally tanky and his damage falls off.
To stay relevant in the late game you need to build damage and look for 1v1's and 2v2's, or build tanky and use your utility.
He has a high skill cap and lots of mobility, which seems to make people really angry.
Junkο1 votesBecause his kit literally has everything, high base damage, high ratios, unmatched mobility, soft and hard cc, is manaless, etc...
MattAkhavan1 votesthe guy loses more than half his games already.
Junkο1 votesSo Fiddlesticks is OP?
It's because EVERYONE plays him, including people that are terrible and expect a free win.
MattAkhavan1 votesSo the fact that you don't get a free win with him makes him OP? And across all ranks he loses more than half of his games makes him OP?
Fiddlesticks is more annoying than lee sin honestly. silence fear + high damage aoe ultimate.
Junkο1 votesOkay let's compare Lee and Fiddle
Lee has: -2 mobility spells -shield -lifesteal -spellvamp -high base ratios -energy (with the best regen out of other champs) -2 true vision spells -knockback -slow -really high ratios (his ult has the highest base damage in the game, PLUS A 200% AD SCALLING)
Fiddle has: -Terrible ratios on his abilities -0 mobility -Extremely annoying drain -Fear -Unreliable silence -High AoE damage that he needs to channel first and takes up his entire power budget -Passive that is almost completely useless past early game -Runs oom in the jungle WITH a blue buff
MattAkhavan1 votesSInce his ratios are so high and his base stats are so high, like you sad above, why does he fall off? Since he's so "broken" why doesn't everyone play him? and Why is he winrate 40-45% in in every rank.
Junkο1 voteswhy doesn't everyone play him
Either you ban Lee every game or you are blind.
His win rate is 40-45% because people that have no idea how to play jungle resort to him when they are forced into jungling. Or just play him cause they expect a free win, you know the same reason Yasuo had 39% winrate on release depsite considered to be OP?
MattAkhavan2 votesReally? because lee sin is only played in 20% of ranked games, 1 in every 5 games, and is banned less than 20% of the time. Fiddlesticks being banned more than lee sin.
As for "people that have no idea how to play jungle resort to him" then why is his win rate so low in challenger and diamond? surely they now how to jungle? And in the case of he is "op" then why don't they win? If he is OP then it should drastically increase their chances of winning right? I still don't understand how OP does no translate into more games won EVER.
Yasuo had a series of QOL buffs and minor buffs to his kit before he became popular. Even after his nerfs he is still played the same as lee sin and has a higher win rate. Also you are comparing the release win rate to a win rate of a champion that has been released for 3 years. not really a good example.
Sources: Yasuo Banrate for a month banrate by week
P.S. As you can see, OP is warwick who has a 90% ban rate.
Junkο1 votesWarwick is an entirely different problem. Just because WW is broken atm because his kit is outdated and the new jungle item made him OP doesn't mean Lee Sin should be allowed to have everything in his kit while champions like Naut exist. Kassadin was nerfed because he had too much mobility on top of huge damage, so should Lee be.
MattAkhavan1 voteskass had a high win rate and a high ban rate. It's not lee sin that's the problem.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesDo it. Lee has conquered the OP jungler era long enough.
thinking man1 votes[deleted]
Junkο1 votesFiddle has 45% AP ratio on all his abilities. His ult is countered by vision, there is a shit ton of vision since start of Season 4.
Lee has 200% AD Ratio on his ult alone. and 2 dashes just in case he fucks up.
Also the 10 MR reduction doesn't mean shit late game. Congrats you increased the dmg your team deals by 5%. clap clap
thinking man1 votes[deleted]
Junkο1 votesNow i want to go full AD Lee Sin and one shot people late game with point and click 600 base dmg ult with 200% AD scalling.