Why even pick an assassin to snowball with

Succubús GF·Jul 6, 2017·14 votes·1,700 views

When Assassins generally fall off as the game progresses. When you can play a bruiser and insta gain lp because you don't "actually" fall off. Renekton just wins 1v4 every time and it's like "this is fine". Like god damn I hate the assassin class so much but it's one of the only classes I enjoy playing. Like I cant ever do anything if my team is trash. Kat is a dead anchor. Lb is barely an assassin anymore. Akali is pretty bad team figth wise if they have any sort of juggernaut. Like I know every one is saying its "adc" meta but honestly I am having a hard ass time with juggernauts/tanks/bruisers etc. Whatever classification you wanna call the champion pool that dominates top lane. The itemization got cheaper so now they can just continue to dominate and you better pray your adc isn't bad or else you are screwed

47 Comments

nm1010Jul 7, 201715 votes

Assassins, the class that has to work twice as hard for half the reward. Yet we all still play them because they are fun as heck.

LauchmelderJul 7, 20172 votes

If they would stop giving assassins waveclear we could talk about buffing their damage.

Why the F do assassins need waveclear? There should be a downside to having a kit purely made to kill, it shouldn't work like: "I'm gonna shove in the wave and then roam for a kill."

Edge of DaybreakJul 7, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y88sjXMV,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-07-07T07:05:22.516+0000)

If they would stop giving assassins waveclear we could talk about buffing their damage.

Why the F do assassins need waveclear? There should be a downside to having a kit purely made to kill, it shouldn't work like: "I'm gonna shove in the wave and then roam for a kill."

Because if they have no way to clear minions then every mage that does just nukes the wave and retreats to tower. They can do this because they will outscale you meanwhile you are on a time limit. This used to basically be every mid lane matchup when playing mages against assassins which is why riot changed it because it was noninteractive. Also you can't really roam effectively if you have to give up more minion gold to do so.

Every champion in league with waveclear has a kit built to kill it's not just assassins.

LauchmelderJul 7, 20171 votes

Maybe I worded it wrong.

With a kit EXCLUSIVELY built to kill a high priority target they should not have waveclear.

If they get waveclear to match mages they shouldn't get so much killing power (damage), if they get the power to instantly delete you they shouldn't get waveclear.

Anu3isIIJul 7, 20171 votes

The thing is, an Assassin needs to roam to get the first kills requiered for their builds. If they don't get enough kills, they don't have enough power to murder people by themselves.

However, the enemy laner will try to shove as hard as possible if you don't have the same level of Waveclear. So, as a greedy Snowball dependant champion, you would have to choose between farming under tower, with no risk at all outside of dives, or an extremely high risk/high reward roam.

Most players who have experience in this game would choose farming. In order to avoid that, Riot gives Assassins Waveclear to allow them both farm and roam.

LauchmelderJul 7, 20171 votes

That's why roaming should become medium risk/ medium-high reward for assassins.

bbQsauçeJul 7, 20173 votes

[deleted]

LauchmelderJul 7, 20171 votes

Instead of going "Hurr Durr bias" how about you start a discussion by asking me what I think about mages?

This boards is full of people that can't discuss. It's easier to bitch about a thing someone said than ask why that person thinks so or what his stance is overall.

bbQsauçeJul 7, 20171 votes

[deleted]

LauchmelderJul 7, 20171 votes

I'm sorry. There's nothing to admit when talking to people with the discussing ability of a fish.

NoPeenNoDreamJul 20, 20171 votes

The only assassin that does offer CC is zed for one, on that LB literally one shots you with her cc. Two mages don't have any form of escape unlike i can double flash's distance with one of engages thats on a low cdr , like assassins can. There's no get in get out unharmed moves any of them posses.

NoPeenNoDreamJul 20, 20171 votes

Shoving lane was literally the only way to counter assassins from getting fed before these absurd changes. The fact that an assassin can be on pair in CS with mages designed to have good wave clear is stupid. By doing this Riot basically said fuck every and that they will get fed from either 2 ways. Farming and killing or Farming and eventually killing

nm1010Jul 7, 20171 votes

Because without waveclear the other laner, usually a mage, will just shove you into tower constantly from range. As is I already have nearly a 20 second cool down on my w as Leblanc until level 8. From that point I have about 5-10 minutes I get to be relevant against good players. After that point I'll be against 4 hexdrinker's a redemtion and/or locket, knight's vow adc who will kill me in 4-5 autos at that point.

Like I said twice the work, half the reward.

LauchmelderJul 7, 20171 votes

The thing I'm saying is that assassins shouldn't be able to waveclear AND roam.

It's either farm or pressure another lane, not farm AND get kills.

The same goes for mages (it's sad that I have to say this because people will bitch about "Hurr Durr mage bias" If I don't)

nm1010Jul 7, 20171 votes

The thing I'm saying is that assassins shouldn't be able to waveclear AND roam.

AurelionSol and Taliyah both clear 4x faster than I possibly can as Leblanc until level 7 and even then they roam much faster.

It's either farm or pressure another lane, not farm AND get kills.

Unless the other laner literally just afk autos the wave I guarantee you will miss 100-150 gold worth of minions and be behind on experience from roaming. Unless you take like a full minion wave from a side line or something. You roam for map pressure and to help the other lanes, staying in your lane would be better for you exp wise and pretty close gold wise.

The same goes for mages (it's sad that I have to say this because people will bitch about "Hurr Durr mage bias" If I don't)

They say this because mid lane is dominated by mages since assassins have to deal with getting out shoved in most lanes, out traded in most lanes (I love facing orianna LOL), out roamed by some lanes, and out scaled in nearly all lanes since we aren't allowed the safety or AoE mages get. What we do get is usualy 1 really good powerspike we are designed to snowball off of, for Leblanc this is Gunblade, if I don't get 3-4 kills within 5-10 mins after that I am basically useless. Exceptions being I killed the adc/forced them to not cs for a large portion of that time.

An assassin hits a 50% winrate and its a disgrace against the balance in the game, meanwhile Anivia the "high skill" 0 interaction laner

https://i.gyazo.com/1a80a038b23f6ef2e7d728ea9c1529fb.png

Has been like that for what? Years? And we get people saying she is under performing xD

LauchmelderJul 7, 20171 votes

What we do get is usualy 1 really good powerspike we are designed to snowball off of, for Leblanc this is Gunblade, if I don't get 3-4 kills within 5-10 mins after that I am basically useless

And exactly this is why I constantly claim that assassins are a design failure and either need a complete rework or need to be removed completely.

If an assassin is strong they feel uninteractive to play against (aka get oneshot in 0.1 seconds pre assassin update kind of uninteractive).

And if they are weak it's unfair to their players. Of all assassins the only one I'd call a success is Zed.

HyperiönJul 7, 20171 votes

lmao?

There is barely any assassin with decent waveclear. What are you smoking?

Vapor Wave VibesJul 6, 20178 votes

Cuz assassins are more fun

CatastropJul 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Cuz assassins are more fun

I'd be inclined to agree, but as someone who used to play a lot of LB, yeah not so much.

Pierce The VealJul 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Cuz assassins are more fun

Not anymore lmao.

It's more fun to play full AD garen than an assassin nowadays.

RexxieeJul 7, 20176 votes

Assassins will never be viable again while riot keeps support items overpowered.

Once they nerf locket/redemption/knights vow/ardent and others then maybe they'll have a chance to actually kill anything past the 30 minute mark.

AimléssJul 7, 20171 votes

Riot just needs to give these items proper counters. Everything has a counter there's, armor penetration for armor stacking, magic penetration for MR stacking, passives like GA and Maw to survive burst, but there is no counter for shields. There is no item that causes shield penetration, or shield reduction, if Riot just added something like that then maybe assassins would have a chance to do their job past the 25 minute mark.

Big LincolnJul 7, 20176 votes

idk what you're expecting an assassin to be doing against bruisers lol

Renekton especially, he'll tank your burst and then burst you right back

ActivatingEMPJul 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y88sjXMV,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-07T02:59:09.249+0000)

idk what you're expecting an assassin to be doing against bruisers lol

Renekton especially, he'll tank your burst and then burst you right back

Exactly. Who are assassins supposed to kill? They aren't able to kill adc's (post 25 minutes),juggernauts (lol), tanks, bruisers of any kind, and it's 50/50 with skirmishers and mages. Hell even a lot of enchanters are just able to point blank cc them and run in the meantime.

NoPeenNoDreamJul 20, 20171 votes

That 1 shot adc's pre/post 25mins as their kit is designed too. If a adc isnt dying from a assassin then that player sucks. Espically since every assassin has along range that is also used as an escape

Handin Out NapsJul 7, 20174 votes

The same reason we started playing assassins, fun. Also one tricking Anivia or Orianna may give you lp, but the thought of it is revolting.

Succubús GFJul 7, 20171 votes

Whenever I play ori I just feel bad. I can play so stupidly safe or so god damn aggressive.

nm1010Jul 7, 20171 votes

As someone who played Orianna for 3 years I can't agree more. Though I will say she took SOME skill before keystones :P

Falcon Of DeathJul 7, 20172 votes

wowz i love getting deleted by targeted damage

PePsiLemoNNJul 7, 20172 votes

You're not wrong but

Renekton just wins 1v4 every time

That's some fine bullshit

Succubús GFJul 7, 20171 votes

Okay, maybe not every time, but most of the time [slayer-jinx-wink]

DaNinadJul 7, 20172 votes

The new changes to the assassin items will make it much easier to snowball.

Before the downvote parade starts, hear me out.

A dusk blade rush gives an extra 230 ish damage in your combo plus the ad plus lethality. Seems better than 100 true damage? Although this will make assassins worse earlier on, good assassin players will be rewarded for snowballing, and since now lethality scales on your level, it makes it pretty freaking easy to kill that draven or caitlyn.

As for the ap assassins(the actual ones Leblanc Katarina ) I don't know what to tell you.

Evil YasuoJul 6, 20171 votes

Checkout my thread I just did asking for an assassin re-rework. They need to do something about it and I feel like my idea is pretty good.

zaire90Jul 7, 20171 votes

Lol I play kat mainly because in silver roaming helps so much more so I rarely even make it to late game for that falloff to matter even tho the few times i do get there I remember all the times I couldve gotten most kills with prerework kat. I feel you with lb I dont even enjoy playing her anymore I feel bad for her mains. Assassin class was my favorite as I mainly played all the ap ones but ever since the rework (even when everyone was calling them op because they didnt know how to fight them) I still disliked them.

FurriesAreHotJul 7, 20171 votes

I play Kat too. She is freelo in bronze 4.

Cryo00Jul 7, 20171 votes

Come on, assassin's are not thaaaaat bad right now. They did get their damage application delayed by a fair amount cause many ADC players would not stop whining about it but its still decent.

ShablagooJul 7, 20175 votes

Assassin's cant assassinate targets anymore, mostly lower defense targets like adc, if they cant kill targets then they are useless. And even if they snowball because of their delay they fall of even harder because by late game they get two shot just like adc and cant assassinate targets fast. Adc's also have way to much survivability to the point where they literally get to 500 hp get shielded healed, and lifesteal back up and have 100% hp by the end of the fight. Hopefully these assassin item changed make them better.

Akali is SO HOTJul 7, 20171 votes

When you have a name like this there is no going back

Succubús GFJul 7, 20171 votes

LMFAO

SalsonJul 7, 20171 votes

Renekton is a toplaner, wtf is an assassin even doing there.

HyperiönJul 7, 20171 votes

He isn't.

He is saying, why play assassins when you can play this and do x times better.

SalsonJul 7, 20171 votes

I know what he is saying.

But comparing a toplane bruiser like Renekton to a midlane assassin line Katarina makes no sense. The only place where bruisers directly outclass assassins is the jungle

TooLucidJul 7, 20171 votes

Just play Twitch he's literally broken.

Shrek LuigiJul 7, 20171 votes

Less experienced players/teams tend to drag out games longer, statistically, because they are often uncomfortable with their ability to follow up a nice gank or something by taking objectives, and instead recall or dawdle around in the jungle or an unpushed lane to sustain back up. These longer games are not good for assassins--these guys lean toward winning games earlier than later. If playing an assassin in lower-rank soloQ then be sure to signal to your team that it's time to push when you've ganked, or grab dragon/herald when you've managed to kill a few enemy champions because time is not on your side and you want to keep the gold pouring in to get as much of an advantage as you can.

Also, I don't think we're in an ADC meta. Botlane has been the subject of memes all season because a good chunk of the ADC pool is invalidated by Twitch / Draven / Caitlyn , and Xayah earllier on in the season--it's only a few specific offenders.