Looks like Riot is trying to make Kog's Q worth levelling again

MrWasjig·Feb 26, 2016·27 votes·2,386 views

Caustic Spittle (Q) Armor and Magic resist reduction increased to 20/25/30/35/40% from 12/16/20/24/28% Mana cost reduced to 40 at all ranks from 60

Holy damn that's a big buff! 28% upto 40%!

Bio-Arcane Barrage has a slight nerf too. Looks like they're trying to spread out his power across his kit, rather than having it front-loaded all into a single ability. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Kog'Maw players, thoughts? I know the little void puppy has been going pretty HAM recently, anyone think this'll take him back to his late-game hypercarry status or stay at his mid and late-game hypercarry status?

34 Comments

The Bíg TicketFeb 26, 20169 votes

Losing 40% Attack Speed is a slight nerf? Thats a stat loss worth 1000 gold.

Meep ManFeb 26, 201610 votes

He gained 1.5% * 17 with his levels, shifting more towards late game as people wanted. Thats 25.5% attack speed compared to 40% attack speed, which is reasonable.

Basically, the trade off is:

Buff- 12% more armor and magic shred More flat damage on W Less mana increase duration on ultimate

Con- Decreased attack speed by 14.5% at Level 18

SpecterVonBarenFeb 26, 20161 votes

There's also the fact that this is an increase to his base attack speed so attack speed items will be more effective on him.

Mister SupportFeb 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y1eMBncc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-02-26T12:41:31.468+0000)

He gained 1.5% * 17 with his levels, shifting more towards late game as people wanted. Thats 25.5% attack speed compared to 40% attack speed, which is reasonable.

Basically, the trade off is:

Buff- 12% more armor and magic shred More flat damage on W Less mana increase duration on ultimate

Con- Decreased attack speed by 14.5% at Level 18

Yeah but doesn't his per level scaling contribute to the base AS so that item bonuses will be more effective? Or am I thinking wrong?

junglerboy16Feb 26, 20166 votes

Wrong actually. Base AS time (in Kog's case, 0.625 attacks per second) is all that interacts with items. The bonus % attack speed he gains per level interacts with his base attack speed in the same way that bonus % attack speed from items does.

He will now gain 3% x 17 AS from levels at 18, or a total of 54% attack speed, which is just the same as getting 54% attack speed from runes, masteries, or items.

delonixFeb 26, 20161 votes

Since Kog'maw is currently maxing W and putting no points into Q, he has the 40% at level 9. Also, attack speed nerfs are always going to be magnified on Kog because of the doubling mechanic. Taking both of those into account, it looks like a pretty significant nerf to Kog's early game and probably a slight buff to single target damage late game and a slight nerf to multi-target damage late game.

It's possible that Kog will make a return to the mid lane with these changes so that he can get more experience than he can in a duo lane, but he's much less safe than Corki.

AuryielFeb 26, 20161 votes

It's both a late game and early game nerf

I think it's a good idea to buff Kog's other abilities and nerf his W, but this is probably going to end up being a large power decrease nontheless

MrWasjigFeb 26, 20161 votes

W still gives it's AS boost anyway. This shift brings him more back to how he used to be. Not 100% but it's closer, and a far more reasonable state than he is currently :P

The GovernerFeb 27, 20161 votes

Check again. They removed the bonus attack speed passive from W.

MrWasjigFeb 27, 20161 votes

Really? Well if they did I didn't see it on [email protected]'re right I may have to check again.

IqqiFeb 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bíg Ticket,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y1eMBncc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-26T12:23:30.828+0000)

Losing 40% Attack Speed is a slight nerf? Thats a stat loss worth 1000 gold.

Ticket is right. Kog is still going to be a powerhouse, he is just going to be about one large purchase behind where he was before the nerf.

His Q also is still really good. People just don't think about it, and to be fair it is not the easiest thing to land since its a small projectile that requires direct line of sight and you still have to shoot it yourself. However if you get it to land, it is a big damage increase.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 26, 20164 votes

i think its quite the NERF. a big one that is. riot doesn't know what middle ground is. either break or gut

MrWasjigFeb 26, 20161 votes

riot doesn't know what middle ground is. either break or gut

This much is obvious, but you can at least give credit for trying shrugs

junglerboy16Feb 26, 20164 votes

They need to revert the resist shred for early ranks so it isn't as much of a one-point-wonder.

20% shred is a LOT, at any stage of the game. If it scaled like 10/17.5/25/32.5/40% then his power curve would be much more in line with a hyper carry and he would also have an incentive to rank Q again.

MrWasjigFeb 27, 20161 votes

Agreed, but given that nobody is ranking his Q until forced to at level 13 it seems that the only way Riot can think of to incentivise it's levelling AT ALL is to overdo the numbers.

Riot in a nutshell....no middle ground.

RebonackFeb 26, 20163 votes

There are only two things left now.

Add a passive to Kog's Q that allows him to apply the resist shred over 8~10 basic attacks. The two shreds wouldn't stack, but rather the Q would simply fully stack it on a target instantly. This would further cement Kog's now clearly defined niche as the Marksmen for softening up the enemy front line.
Increase the level 1 slow on his E to 35% or so. This would give Kog a much more compelling choice regarding which of his two secondary skills he wants to max second.

Depending on Kog's performance late game as of these changes, Riot could add a bonus AD ratio to his W's flat damage in case they feel he needs to scale harder.

OrangesilkFeb 26, 20162 votes

To be fair, they should increase Qs projectile speed and allow it to bypass minions so he can use it effectively in a teamfight, as it is, trying to land it on a tank is more dangerous and trouble than it's worth.

It's not like he'll max Q in lane anyways so it's not gonna change his laning pattern much.

MrWasjigFeb 26, 20161 votes

He might not max it in lane but it would certainly give him an edge. Not sure making it pass-through minions would be a good change, increasing it's speed seems reasonable though :D

Photos of GhostsFeb 26, 20161 votes

makes more sense than current iteration. Not sure if it'll e more balanced, but it makes more sense.

1 800 MID LANEFeb 26, 20161 votes

I think the compensation for the AS nerf is going to keep him similarly broken, but in more of a teamfight manner than 1v1 since it would amplify damage from everyone more than it does. Significantly more.

MrWasjigFeb 26, 20161 votes

So it's exactly what he Q is supposed to do. I don't see that as a bad thing since Kog has always been a shredder anyway.

DealthFeb 26, 20161 votes

As a Kog'maw player these changes are headed into the right direction

BisaknospFeb 26, 20161 votes

he is still unfun to play and it will stay that way if riot doesnt bring old kog back but they wont zzz

Yuumi or LoseFeb 26, 20161 votes

This is a really good buff to AP Kog. Now he can spam abilities more with the time gap on his ult reduced and mana cost reduced on his Q.

QuephaFeb 26, 20161 votes

I still think you level it last but you might actually pick it up early now instead of just ignoring it completely. Mana cost reduction is probably more significant.

Only Play DariusFeb 26, 20161 votes

Should return him to more of a tank-shredder if anything, now that he has much more resistance reduction

SaiannaFeb 26, 20161 votes

I still wish Riot would slightly change Kog'Maws ultimate to be more mage-friendly :S

LadyRenlyFeb 26, 20161 votes

Is the "new" kog maw dead? I was never too interested in adc kog maw, had a bit of fun with AP Kog whenever I had him on aram, but ultimately fell in love with reworked adc kog maw, but I hope there can be some coexistence between AP and AS kogmaw

JasiwelFeb 26, 20161 votes

I think these changes will be good. People who are good with Kog'Maw will still be good with Kog'Maw. People playing him because he's extremely powerful and don't actually have to put much skill into will leave him for someone easier. If someone picks Kog'Maw, I think we'll have greater instances of "I wonder if this person is good with him" versus "Dammit they picked Kog'Maw."

CaptnJakSparrowFeb 26, 20161 votes

You know they buffed his late game, and barely even touched his mid game, right O-o.

MrWasjigFeb 27, 20161 votes

Baby steps...baby steps....

The FastFeb 26, 20161 votes

As someone who plays AP Kog, I like this buff. Do you know what AP Kog will do with 40% MR reduction? Its fucking scary, expecially with the execute on his ult.