Dear supports,

Succubús GF·Jan 3, 2017·22 votes·2,970 views

It will never hurt you to buy a sightstone. Never,it doesn't matter what you are building, sightstone is always necessary and crucial as a support. I am honestly so god damn sick and tired of supports, "la di da no sightstone but yes i have deathcap" It drives me insane. I stopped playing support a lot because i find it very hard to carry but my god i just feel like a mother wanting to slap their child's hand when they dont buy sightstone. I have only seen this in bronze so maybe thats an indicator of why but ffs

110 Comments

the Anarchit3chtJan 3, 201710 votes

A support doesn't have to build a sighstone. They aren't required to build anything specific at all. They can build anything that they want to. If you want a sight stone that badly, build one. Nobody has to conform to you standard or method of playing.

And before it comes up, I typically support and buy a sight stone. But if I'm not and my support doesn't buy one, that's their choice.

SchmidttyGamesJan 3, 20177 votes

Of course they don't have to. They just should, because better information makes for better decisions. It's a vital part of their role, akin to bringing Smite as a Jungler. Sure, you don't need to take Smite and buy a Jungle item, but it really helps you do your job well.

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

there's a difference. if you don't take smite and the buffs it brings you'll have a hellish time clearing and being healthy enough to do anything in terms of ganking. and I mean the on hit damage and heal and bonus xp that are worth a shitton more than you think for early game. a few wards? use your trinket, riot gave them to you for a reason.

SchmidttyGamesJan 3, 20174 votes

Not just "a few wards". You will not ever match my vision control as a Support Main without one. If your Support doesn't buy a Sightstone, then you shouldn't wonder why the other team always seemed to know where you were, where you were going, and when you were trying to take objectives. They had vision on you.

A large chunk of the Supports job is to light up the map. Your piddly trinket isn't going to match the Sightstone by any stretch. You can put down 1 ward every 2 minutes. I can put down 4 that refresh each time I back. Vision Control is a huge aspect of the higher level game, and if you choose to ignore it, that is your own cross to bear.

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

piddly... oh 5 trinkets your whole team gets? the 2 trinkets bot lane gets suffice while I build maybe 2-2.5k in mini items before I get my stone and have a better early game for it. if you want to be the ward bitch I won't blame you, but I like to help my adc in the most vital stage of the game when I need a rush of cheap early power. and it doesn't matter how much you light up the map if you waste all your wards on meaningless spots, ward placement can keep key wards on the map and reveal so much more information than more wards stuck in random spots.

SchmidttyGamesJan 3, 20178 votes

You, literally, have no concept of what it means to be a Support. I'm not going to waste my time telling you what I do and why it works. You won't care anyway. You think you know it all. That's all good and well. I enjoy obliterating people with your "support" mentality. People like you make my job easy.

Have fun out there not knowing what's coming down the river.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

the Anarchit3chtJan 3, 20172 votes

Between a support and ADC yellow trinkets the river will liteally have zero down time of being without vision. Especially if supplemented by scuttle. While a sight stone makes it easier and allows you to place other wards its not necessary.

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

truly even at level one there will always be a ward up if played right, and you can save them up when you aren't pushing out and don't need it up as much. top and mid don't have this luxury and hell, mid has twice the bushes and they make it out of laning fine enough. smart playing can be the best ward.

AngelNipataJan 3, 20174 votes

The issue with that reasoning is that you then only have vision in that one bush. If if enemy support is a Blitzcrank Thresh Nautilus etc. you need to keep vision control in the lane bushes so that you don't get hooked by surprise. It is essential to have some vision control in the lane because you won't be able to react to in lane ganks otherwise. There are also champions like Zac that can gank from spots that can't be controlled with one ward between the 2 of you. To add onto this, the wards from item 2049 last 150 seconds instead of the 60-120 seconds that yellow trinket wards last, this longer duration allows you to keep vision control on objective like dragon whilst also warding against ganks. also allows you to switch out your trinket for item 3341 item 3364 item 3462 which all have great uses.

TL;DR: Sightstone allows you to prepare for all possble situations and should be bought because it is a useful item, if it weren't so good they wouldn't have made is so gold inefficient,

the Anarchit3chtJan 3, 20172 votes

if you dont see a blitz in your lane its pretty reasonable to assume he is in the bush and to play carefully around that. it doesn't take a ward to know that if blitz isn't visible on the map and was in your lane 2 seconds that he's in the bush.

edit: I'm not saying sightstone isn't useful or shouldn't be grabbed, I'm saying it's asinine to expect a player to conform to your standards of play and how you think they should play the game. They don't have to and the sooner you stop blaming misplays on their "lack of warding" and owning up to mistakes, you'll do better. if your support didnt buy a sight stone you know you wont have the vision from that and should generally make safer and less risky plays. That's all you can do because you can't force someone to buy a sight stone.

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

tell me oh great ward bitch. how does it feel to be valued for nothing but the glowy circles you place down.

I'm not even flaming in dota there are literally "ward bitch" champions that will be lucky to have an item and a half by endgame.

AngelNipataJan 3, 20176 votes

Supports are not valued for their wards, they're valued for stopping the 10/0 enemy Zed from jumping out of a bush and popping your adc like a balloon. Wards help a lot with that. They're also valued for stopping the enemy Shyvana from soloing drag under your noses. And guess what? Wards help a lot with that too. And don't forget how wards stop help your team by reminding them to deal with the LeeSin whose trying to steal baron from behind the pit. Also, don't forget that supports aren't ward mules anymore from the pre- item 3340 era where supports literally filled their empty inventory slots with wards.

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

I don't believe the argument was "warding isn't useful" I believe it was "ward's aren't the support's job alone and you shouldn't be rushing ss above all else"

AngelNipataJan 3, 20173 votes

Oh well, if you're going to put it that way. I typically grab sightstone first back because I usually have between 800-900 gold at that point it's a convenient buy so I can start actually building situational and core items without having to worry about finding a place to lodge sightstone in between it all.

VerdadeJan 3, 20171 votes

SS on first back is TERRIBLE.

Arsenic SulfurJan 3, 20172 votes

But when the apparent meta is "Hey Mid come with me real quick let's blow up bot lane" "Sure JG, I need some stacks on this Dark Seal", at least SS will make it so that you can get out alive. Sure no tower but hey what can you do, fight them?

AmetDeCryptJan 4, 20172 votes

I keep ss on 2 all the time every time, first item active usually on 3 and gold item on 1, at least that's my system. my point here is that that 900 gold can be used for so much better than "150 hp and some more wards to spam into the 2 or 3 bushes I'll be holding while I'm in laning phase" like say upgrading the gold item, grabbing a little hp/hp5/mp5/shield power/even a little damage if you're feeling gutsy. even if you're a soraka kog lane and intent on sitting under tower for the first 20 minutes of the game and never fighting and don't want those stats over keeping the bugger as safe as possible against the 5 assassin team, it's a grand waste of your early game power as a support. sure the ss becomes super useful once first tower is down and people begin to roam lanes so the extra wardage is quite the boon in that phase, but in the very early game I highly caution against a ss rush.

keep in mind I mainly play ap mage supports so I can see say a thresh/braum/alistar loving the extra hp quite a bit but I'd still never rush ss on them before anything else. at earliest second mini item after gold item level 2 and boots.

the Anarchit3chtJan 3, 20172 votes

I can't tell you the number of games where I buy a sight stone and end up being the only placing wards on my team bar people warding their bushes to prevent ganks.

Id like to point out that the mindset that it's a "supports job to light up the map" is very toxic. Vision is the responsibility of the entire team.

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

I get that sometimes, but as you climb it'll get better, and if you get a friend in to duo you can always count on at least one other person helping out.

AMYS GRAVEJan 4, 20171 votes

there's a difference.

Well if you don't take ~~smite~~ sightstone and the ~~buffs~~ vision it brings you'll have a hellish time ~~clearing~~ contesting objectives and being ~~healthy enough~~ able to do anything

Hmm, maybe there isn't much of a difference.

AmetDeCryptJan 6, 20171 votes

do you contest objectives from levels 1-4?

I didn't think so.

AMYS GRAVEJan 6, 20171 votes

You've never seen a level 1 buff invade?

Succubús GFJan 3, 20173 votes

Is this satire? Or are you just that dense? o.o

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20171 votes

no he's right.

Succubús GFJan 3, 20172 votes

That's the thing, he isnt

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20173 votes

in pointing out the obvious telling you to get off your lazy ass and contribute? you have less of an argument than in any other season as you are literally given free regenerating wards.

Succubús GFJan 3, 20172 votes

The amount of vision with someone with SS is higher than those without so you sound pretty dumb

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

you are limited to 3 stealth wards and one vision ward at any time. no you cannot ward the map alone, even if you pick the best spots you can barely ward a 4th. that's what the team is for and why riot keeps trying to emphasise it with all of the changes they've made.

YrzenJan 3, 20172 votes

5 wards that each last 60-120 seconds vs 4 wards that each last 60-120 seconds and 3-4 more wards that each last 150 seconds, ALSO, a red trinket for getting rid of enemy wards.

It's not hard to see how the team with the sightstone support will have considerably, even overwhelmingly more vision control than the team without it.

But yeah, I'm sure it's everyone's fault for not "getting off their lazy ass and contributing" and not the fault of the "Support" who thinks a blasting wand will better serve "their team".

AmetDeCryptJan 4, 20171 votes

I'll say this again. you cannot place more than 3 stealth wards and one pink ward at any given time in the game. they will disappear and you will have wasted the vision. if you need to quickly set up vision it is useful but there's a reason trinkets exist, because teammates are expected to contribute vision, it's not the support's job alone. at that late in the game I will always have ss of course but my point as I will keep reiterating is never rush ss over other items as the stats it gives are pithy in comparison to other early game buys, and you won't be needing it while in laning because you are not moving around the map.

YrzenJan 4, 20171 votes

Nothing is going to disappear if you actually place your wards in places you need them. If you hate the concept of a fourth ward so much because you plan on dying or recalling every 2 and a half minutes, just don't upgrade sightstone until late into the game, which is a perfectly normal thing to do.

I'll say this again, more explicitly this time. It doesn't fucking matter if you cannot place more than 3 stealth wards and one pink ward at any time when you only can place three with a sightstone and remove the one ward the enemy place because they didn't buy a sightstone until your team already takes two or three dragons.

AmetDeCryptJan 6, 20171 votes

did I say I don't buy sightstone?

or did I goddam say I don't rush sightstone before other more cost effective items because it's a poor choice in the super early game. pick my arguments apart, not what you hope my arguments to be.

YrzenJan 6, 20171 votes

When I use the word "you", I mean it as one would use the word "one" to refer to a random person.

Pick my arguments apart, not some semantics of word choice.

If you only get sightstone late in the game, you lose out on the cost-effectiveness of it of providing large quantities of wards over the course of the game. Once you have your upgraded gold item and boots, you shouldn't really be getting much more before picking up a sightstone to make best use of it. Around that time or even earlier is often one of the most crucial times for vision control because of the botlane fiesta meta and the junglers getting ready to take the dragon.

the Anarchit3chtJan 3, 20172 votes

It's neither. A support doesn't have to build a sight stone. That's why the eventually limited you to three wards a person to emphasize that a support isn't your vision bot. Vision is the responsibility of your ENTIRE team. 2 wards from your trinket is ample vision to prep for any objective that you need to take. The only benefit a sight stone truly offers is the ability to place more wards in a timely manner. A support is not required to build it at all. While it is generally a good idea, it's not a requirement. It'd be like requiring a top laner to always build a black cleaver so that they can shred armor for your ADC. It's just asinine. While I almost ALWAYS build a sight stone the fact that you guys think you can somehow dictate how someone else plays is just plain silly. It's up to them how they play and nothing is a requirement in this game so far as how to you build your champion or the style of play you embrace.

YrzenJan 3, 20172 votes

Just because they don't have to doesn't mean it's a good idea not to.

I'm not required to play any jungler just because of the meta, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to only play jungle Soraka. (With a jungle Janna secondary~)

Any Support that refuses to buy a sightstone is either playing sub-optimally or outright refusing to work with the team.

the Anarchit3chtJan 3, 20172 votes

That's false. A support who refuses to even use their trinket or sweep out wards or peel for their ADC is refusing to work with their team. That's like saying a top laner who doesn't teleport down to 4v2 when the jungler ganks is playing sub-optimally and refusing to work with their team. SUre it could make for a great game changing play but they aren't required to do it all.

IAMAGIRLHIJan 3, 20178 votes

i always get sightstone :)

Hencho101Jan 3, 20176 votes

From an ADC main here, PLS BUY A DAMN item 2049 , yes even you Lux "support" players out there. Wards are a HUGE part of winning a game and doing well in lane. If you have 0 vision in lane that can mean ez ganks and no dragon control, no vision out of lane can mean ez picks and no objective control. So pls fellow support players, Get your item 2049 it is the least you could do when i am willing to summoner 7 for you and try and save you when you get hit by a Blitzcrank hook.

PS: This is no hate to support players, i LOVE you guys. The ones who are the least toxic and the ones who keep the Zed s and Rengar s off my ass. And you all still play it, even when you have to play with the toxic ADC players out there and get blamed for everything. I could go on and on and on about how great you guys actually are [slayer-jinx-catface]

ZT XperimentorJan 3, 20175 votes

Dear marksmen, it won't hurt you to give coverfire when your support is in trouble either. Regardless if they're trying to ward or fight.

Succubús GFJan 3, 20173 votes

This is from a mid laners' perspective btw

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

so you know even less about the bot lane dynamics than we'd originally assumed? ok.

Succubús GFJan 3, 20172 votes

Really? Because i basically only support/mid/jg. So i am well aware, You on the other hand clearly dont know how to support if you cant even grasp the concept of warding :)

AmetDeCryptJan 3, 20172 votes

I've run into many of your kind who believe that the support's biggest and only job is to stick wards down. no a support's job is to help their team which may include warding but if the team is good they'll all be warding, ss rush is a good idea on paper but bad in practice, much like an infinity edge rush. they're newbie traps and you're much better suited upgrading your gold item, getting some boots, maybe a totem if you're a squishy or some tank if you aren't. before the ward refills kick in the ss is one of the least cost efficient support items on stats alone.

Succubús GFJan 3, 20172 votes

As someone who plays support, frequently. Vision is a huge lead in a team game so maybe get better?

RookPusherJan 3, 20173 votes

The sightstone doesn't hurt me. Your inability to use the information I'm giving you hurts me.

Succubús GFJan 3, 20172 votes

ItsbeghdevJan 3, 20174 votes

He's making a somewhat tangential remark about people not using vision even if they do have it.

Swiff SwishJan 3, 20172 votes

I just level 6 my Sona Sona and to be honest I didn't use sightstone that much in her build. It most of the time is not necessary considering you have wards which can be well placed. Of course if the Jungler is buffed/fed and you are very worried about such and other ganks, then of course you buy a sightstone. Nothing is wrong with an AP build or other builds on supports, its actually quite powerful to AP Sona. To conclude, a sightstone is merely situational

Pandemic PunchJan 3, 20172 votes

100% agree with this for Platinum and below. Sona is a decent candidate for a champion that doesn't need sightstone that bad. If someone plays something like Janna though.... Better buy that sightstone or your uselessness will be showing.

Pandemic PunchJan 3, 20172 votes

In your elo, it depends on the support pick. If the support picks a utility support, then yes they better buy it.

If it is "support" Brand or "support" Zyra, then it can be WAY better NOT to buy sightstone. Even if all of the wards are perfectly placed, it doesn't mean your team will ACTUALLY use the information that the wards provide. This is true even in Platinum.

On a team where no one is paying attention to the wards (while using a "support" champion), keeping warding trinket and buying control wards on every recall will suffice.