Are we going to address Azir before worlds? @Meddler

metaworldpeace10·Jul 23, 2016·13 votes·12,871 views

Azir is still a huge pain point in terms of balance. A skilled Azir player can solo carry a game, while oppressing the enemy into submission with the smallest of leads with his endless poke/seige power. He has burst, mobility, CC (including rylais which is broken on him) engage/disengage potential, sustained damage DPS and utility with his ult to boot. The only other mid lane champions that are played against him are: . Why? Because all of those aformentioned champions are just as oppressive and safe during laning as Azir is, its just Azir is the best pick because of all of characteristics he holds. He needs to be addressed before worlds. He's a pain during the professional scene because of how much these pros can abuse his "high skillcap" and he's a pain in Solo queue. Thoughts?

59 Comments

YurÌ on IceJul 23, 20169 votes

He's already been addressed in 6.14, and he's been a meh pick for a while now (Except in NA at the hands of specific teams, and also in EU). In other regions he's not the contested pick you bring him out to be.

He's fine now, a worse-ish Kalista of sorts. But if that will keep the anti-Azir circlejerk quiet, than I'll take it.

YurÌ on IceJul 23, 20166 votes

BTW, how's your Sona & Viktor freelo holding up?

RiotMeddlerJul 24, 20168 votes

Not sure yet what changes we will or won't make to Azir before the Worlds patch (6.18). We hit his power noticeably in 6.14, to the extent he's not in a great place for most players, even if they've got quite a few games on him. Might still be strong enough, or even too strong, in pro play though. Need to see some more pro play to get a good handle on how he's looking there, then we can figure out how to balance for those two different needs. At some point we'll also need to make some more fundamental changes to him to give him clearer weaknesses, that's probably a post Worlds thing though.

1nciteJul 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not sure yet what changes we will or won't make to Azir before the Worlds patch (6.18). We hit his power noticeably in 6.14, to the extent he's not in a great place for most players, even if they've got quite a few games on him. Might still be strong enough, or even too strong, in pro play though. Need to see some more pro play to get a good handle on how he's looking there, then we can figure out how to balance for those two different needs. At some point we'll also need to make some more fundamental changes to him to give him clearer weaknesses, that's probably a post Worlds thing though.

i think a great way to add weakness and strength to his kit is to put most his damage on W force it to be maxed first and to make his Q have short range at rank 1 that scales up with levels. meaning that in the early game he is vulnerable to long range and has less poke. i explain more in my post here. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/45MzduNX-azir-solution

i would be absolutely honored beyond all belief if you would take the time to read my ideas.

TheorcheroJul 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=3lder dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XuA3RVBT,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2016-07-24T04:38:00.242+0000)

i think a great way to add weakness and strength to his kit is to put most his damage on W force it to be maxed first and to make his Q have short range at rank 1 that scales up with levels. meaning that in the early game he is vulnerable to long range and has less poke. i explain more in my post here. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/45MzduNX-azir-solution

i would be absolutely honored beyond all belief if you would take the time to read my ideas.

That's not a bad idea, but his late game or early damage would have to be buffed. Probably his early damage to make successful execution of his abilities sufficiently rewarding due to the new difficulty of pulling them off.

1nciteJul 24, 20161 votes

yes i know i think actually mid game damage buff is ideal and i cover that in the full article.

redfeenixJul 24, 20161 votes

Any other champs you guys keeping a close eye on? I'm always excited for worlds as the various regions Bring stuff to the table that we've never seen.

If past tournaments are any indication, Shen will be picked a whole lot. Are there any other downright OP champs on your radar that you're looking to hit?

Or on the other side of the coin, any severely under powered champs you're looking to bring up to par in time for worlds? Like kalista or kindred?

While I know it's not gonna be possible, I wish to see all champions being viable in competitive. I hate when the same 30 champs are picked over and over again for the entire tournament. You should aim to make this the year with the most champion variety at worlds ( or at least more variety than last year ). I would love to see more variety and not just the single meta team comp.

TheMeta88Jul 24, 20167 votes

I'm going to jump the shark and give my perspective on the direction I'd like to see Azir be taken in. I'm modelling this post off of the "Direction" threads from the mage update.

What he's good at and his Niche

Damage. Azir should keep his hyper carry status. He's able to do a lot of damage quickly but still isn't "burst mage." How he should do that damage going forward is something I'll bring up later.
Range. Azir should keep his range. Just recently I was against a post rework Ryze and I knew that I would absolutely refuse to engage him on his terms. It's so satisfying to be playing a mage and yet feel like you're wielding a spear and keeping someone at the other end of it. That's how Azir at his best should feel to play. Where he gets overbearing is that range ON TOP OF how difficult it is to close that gap and actually touch him.
Zone control. Similar to range, Azir is best when he makes the enemy fight where he wants them to fight. The more tools he has to do that the better.
SHURIMA! By far what sets Azir apart as a mage is his soldiers and how he commands them. Having to "auto attack" instead of casting abilities should be the thing that makes Azir Azir and yet gets lost in the mountain of things he does well.

What he doesn't, er shouldn't, do well

We've established his primary goal should be to keep you at a distance and/or keep you where he wants you to be. However, if you get inside of his "defenses" he needs to be vulnerable. Unfortunately he has three ways to ruin your day. He can ult, E away, or E into you getting a shield that may be enough to win. Currently, having a knock back AND an escape is too much. Not to mention that you'll have a flash in every game too. Something has to give. Perhaps he shouldn't be encouraged at all to dive head in. Remove the shield so he's less safe. Maybe his ultimate should do no damage. Perhaps playing around his E mobility should be a more central part of his kit. A longer, static cooldown may make both players AND teams more aware of his high and low points. Especially if it was accompanied with a new visual indicator for when he can cast it. Literal sands shifting around their ruler. TL/DR: No damage on ult, longer E cooldown, more visibility and counter play potential on his mobility. I've decided that for Azir to be balanced shifting sands needs to be removed. This really really really hurts because it's been such an integral and fun part of Azir for so long. And it's the only thing that remotely embodies his "bird" aspect where he's able to glide across the battlefield and make plays. He'll need a new E then which I'll touch on later.
Early game dominance. Q>Auto>Auto>Thunderlord's is...a disgrace frankly. Commit to the "hyper carry" concept and make him weak early on but in more meaningful and visible ways. I have some ideas that I'll touch on last.
Q. Azir's Q cooldown should also go up. He should be more about smart placement of his soldiers and about continually spawning them in fights as opposed to constantly trying to reposition them all over the battlefield. As a balance, the slow on it should be more powerful so that being hit buy it is felt in more ways than just damage.

What I'd like to see Azir become

Soldiers. It's bad for the game that Azir can do all the damage he needs with one soldier. Two is plenty and three is gravy. What if needing to get three soldiers on the battlefield before being a threat was a thing. And what if being able to get four or five soldiers all in the same fight was the hallmark of a great Azir? A way to hit his early game dominance while promoting the above playstyle would be to make soldier damage additive. Currently one soldier does 50 damage at level 1. Subsequent soldiers deal a % reduction of that to the same target. What if instead each soldier always does 30. Currently, one soldier is enough with the Q>A>A>TL combo to take most mids to 60% health at level 2. This new system promotes skillful play while taking early power away forcing players to spend more resources BUT getting more damage when played right. Literally as I type this a concern has struck me. Azir's Q scatters the soldiers out into a line. So it'll be nigh impossible to get three soldiers to attack the same target. Hm. But if late game if there are more soldiers out, that last longer, form up tighter, and have adjusted(if needed) radii then that may not be a problem. What if also attacking decreased the recharge rate on soldiers.
Zone control. I really like the mental image of Azir's soldiers as an extension of his self. He the body, they the spear. As Azir, you should always be trying to keep the enemy on the pointy end of your spear. So, as mentioned before, his Q having a stronger and longer lasting slow, but becoming less spammable, would be a good way to do that. A decisive use of a Q to put the enemy where you want them. Perhaps his soldiers should have a slow too but that may be to much and he'll get Rylai's anyway. Honestly I wonder if a majority of problems with mages right now would disappear if Rylai's was removed. Rylai's is not a utility pick. It's a must buy. Tangent over.
E. With the removal of shifting sands Azir needs a new E. I propose that his E is an "AA" reset. Upon casting his soldiers will knock up enemy champions hit for .25/.5/1/1.25/1.5 seconds based on level. This gives him more to do as a marksman and timing autos while synergizing with his zoning abilities.
R. He may also need a new ultimate. It could be mostly the same but with a few key changes. What if soldiers shot out in all directions around him. At it's start it is a closed circle but at max range it becomes a somewhat loose formation allowing champions to path through. BUT! Unlike the current emperor's divide these soldiers can also attack! This gives Azir some separation but doesn't make him untouchable to certain champions. But to get close to him they must put themselves in a dangerous position.

What do you think reader?

TyrekGoldenspearJul 24, 20162 votes

Looks pretty good mate. As a die-hard Azir main I approve. +1

The nerfs hurt my heart, but the buffs and changes to make his kit more thematically sound and healthier are nice.

TheMeta88Jul 24, 20161 votes

Thank you for the support! Anythings you would change or add?

TyrekGoldenspearJul 24, 20162 votes

Well I like where you're going, but I believe the main issues with his kit are his E.

Now don't get me wrong I love his dash. It has gotten me out of tough scrapes and lets me do the famous Shurima Shuffle. But that is the main issue with balancing him. It's like Kalista. She has insane mobility so they had to weaken everything else about her to compensate.

I love doing the shuffle, but in a real fight it usually isn't the best option. If I dare dive into the enemy team, I just handed my enemy a high DPS carry on a silver platter. Even if I get a kill or two out of the shuffle, I would do more good by sitting behind and attacking with my soldiers.

The Shuffleis honestly just a flashy play and a noob trap to be honest. His ult should be used for self peel. Now for his E.

An emperor stands behind his soldiers and fights through them, so he shouldn't be able to dash with his E.

This encourages the playstyle of standing back and summoning an army to fight for you. With this change we can give Azir back most of his power now that he will want to set up shop and wreck from one place. You get to him you beat him.

Now to compensate Azir players. Emperors do not only have soldiers, they have bodyguards. I propose that E summons a different sort of sand soldier, a bodyguard. They will work on an ammo system like sand soldiers, but they have a longer cool down and only one can exist at a time.

They can last at least a minute, and Azir can't move them. They will dutifully follow their emperor.

If an enemy gets too close, they will charge them, exploding into sand on impact and knocking them back, giving Azir a speed boost depending on the rank of the skill. This gives him an escape but doesn't make him impossible to catch. It gives him a fighting chance.

Now we can let his soldiers do separate damage, giving you a reason to spam soldiers.

His play style will be to create. Zone of control, a camp if you will. He will command his sold from there with bodyguards to defend from ambush.

JosephAngeloJul 24, 20161 votes

I agree. His E is really problematic. I think he was designed to be a long ranged DPS hyper carry mage (on his champion profile, he is primarily classified as a mage and his secondary role is Marksman), like AP kog maw and karthus but what is usually associated with long ranged hyper carries is low mobililty and low amounts of CC which is true for kog and karthus yet azir has what I believe to be the longest dash in the game AND argueably the best CC ultimate in the game, which coupled together makes for arguelbly the best combo in the game; it just doesn't fit. It doesn't matter how difficult a champion is to play, no champion should be this overloaded.

His E is a really fun ability but from a multiplayer game design perspective, when the enjoyment of the nine other players in the game matters, it is very unfair and overwhelming. His E and perhaps even his ultimate should be removed. Classifying him specifically as a zone control DPS hyper carry mage (like karthus and kog Maw) giving him really long range and damage, rewarding him if he positions correctly but also giving him low or no mobility and limited CC.

My ideas:

Replace his e with Anivia's wall ability. It is exactly the same ability it just looks like a phalanx of soldiers instead of a wall of ice.

Replace his ultimate with an ability that makes a shell of sand soldiers over his body, (like at the end of the movie 300) making him untargetable for 1-4 seconds but during this time he cant do anything. When he comes out, based on how many sand soldiers he has up, he will gain a shield.

And let him have a lot of soldiers. Each one does does a fraction of the damage they do now but additional soldiers do 100% additional damage each and Q'ing more than one also stacks the damage. (I haven't forgotten about that nerf, Riot)

TyrekGoldenspearJul 24, 20161 votes

That sounds pretty good. It would remove memories of the shuffle.

Maybe add the knock up on Azir's E. That way it prevents dashes through the wall.

The ult is interesting, but how does he escape with it? It has the same issue that Zhonya's has. You just stand around him till it ends than clobber him as soon as it wears off.

Maybe have him knock back champs around him when it ends. (Like in Ascension when you ascend.)

I haven't played long enough to know about that nerf, but that sounds like something that could be given back to him.

JosephAngeloJul 24, 20161 votes

I would miss the shurima shuffle but I am willing to give it up for a healthier game. Which is a game in which azir can't dash 3000 units and ult and entire team wherever he wants AND a game in which azir isn't nerfed every other patch like clockwork (this is demoralizing).

I actually disagree with the wall blocking dashes like his ult does now. I don't think this is fair or healthy. It inhibits counter play. Champions that create terrain (anivia, Taliyah) especially backline hyper carries SHOULD be countered by champions that have dashes to get on top of them even over terrain and kill them (hopefullly) or at least cc them for some time so they don't have an opportunity to do damage to the rest of their team.

As a dedicated mage and ADC player, I can say that it is frustrating when a renekton dives on top of me and kills me before I can do anything BUT I would say it is ten times more frustrating when I am the renekton player who tries to jump on the azir but he makes a wall that I cant jump over even though I picked a champion who has a dash that can get over walls because I know I am facing a champion who can make a wall. Players should be rewarded for picking champions like reneton against azir, not punished for it.

TyrekGoldenspearJul 24, 20162 votes

I guess. I suppose the perfect counterplay to prevent a bruiser from jumping on you to murder you to death would be to keep your distance.

It would give Azir a healthy respect for melees. Normally I couldn't care less if someone was too close cuz I an just dash or ult them away. This way it gives me some healthy fear. ;)

Maybe we can keep it on his ult? Ults are game changing abilities you know.

I kinda like the bodyguards idea for his e though. That way it doesn't look like hes copying Aniva.

JosephAngeloJul 24, 20161 votes

yeah copying the same ability is pretty lame. I like the idea of a phalanx though and want to keep that somewhere in his kit and I just really like anivia so that came to mind.

I must say though I really don't like the idea of a wall that blocks dashes; it just totally shuts down champions that have dashes. Actually, because it is terrain, even champions without dashes cant cross. So basically it shuts down.....EVERYONE! :D except people with blinks and teleports like kassadin, ekko katarina.

For the same reason, I hate yasuo's windwall; it totally shuts down champions with projectiles, which is ALOT of champions. So basically, these two abilities by themselves can make anothers champions entire kit absolutely useless for several seconds. Maybe this is false logic but what I think most people would agree on is these mechanics are hyper frustrating.

TyrekGoldenspearJul 24, 20161 votes

Yeah I guess you're rigjt on the money there.

I play Brand from time to time, and I can't imagine the irritation if Yasuo windwalls my ult. QQ

Okay, so maybe Azir can keep his phalanx on his ult. the knock up can stay, but once they stop moving then they can be dashed past.

Maybe then Riot will let the wall stay longer.

E can then be bodyguards or that shell you mentioned real, but instead it will be soldiers coming up then dissolving into sand to shield their emperor, giving him time to escape or reposition.

It can strengthen depending on the soldiers out already, sacrificing Azir's offense for increasing defense.

JosephAngeloJul 24, 20161 votes

WOW I Love it! :D this sounds awesome.

yeah I think the wall not stopping dashes incentivizes azir players to ult someone AS they are dashing at them because then they cant dash over it because their dash is on cooldown.

I would love to see the wall last as long as it used to. Two of my favorite mechanics on azir are when I am facing an udyr, I will ult and then kite him around my wall for the full seven seconds while he tries to run around it to get to me. My other favorite thing to do (if you are an azir main you NEED to try this even though it is harder because it only lasts 3 seconds now) ult someone who doesn't have a dash or flash up into a jungle camp, traping them there. I 1v1'ed a pretty fed darius once by ulting him into chickens camp where he just stood there while I auto attacked him. his whole team freaked out when I did it XD.

And the idea of him sacrificing his soldiers for a shield I think is really neat. Because if he uses his shield when he gets jumped on then even if he survives the dive, he also didn't do nearly as much damage as he could have because he needed to play defensively.

SMELLS LIKE COUNTERPLAY! I LOVE IT! :D

I haven't really been playing much lately but I am going to add you. I am a former azir main.

TyrekGoldenspearJul 24, 20161 votes

Lol. Glad you like it!

I am a die hard Azir main. Even though I've only been playing for four months, I'm passionate about the game and I love his playstyle.

I should try those tricks you mentioned though. My dream is to trap a low health enemy team in the Baron pit.

It's the perfect set up. If he gets in a jam, he ults then shields himself, sacrificing the pummelling he was giving his enimies to run to safety.

Thanks for the invite mate, I'm giving Azir a small break right now becuase my Brand wants some action on the rift. Blowing up squishys never gets old. :)

TheMeta88Jul 25, 20161 votes

LMFAO! You and I have similar ideas. Down to some of the same inspirations. Read my OP again to see what I mean. After I wrote it I browsed back through the comments and found yours. Only thing I don't like is just giving him Anivia's wall. Especially since its also kind of like his current ultimate and then just replacing his ultimate. That's a lot of defensive measures when more focus should be placed on damage.

Read my OP and tell me what you think.

Meow Meow CafeJul 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to jump the shark and give my perspective on the direction I'd like to see Azir be taken in. I'm modelling this post off of the "Direction" threads from the mage update.

What he's good at and his Niche

So...part of the discussion is he doesn't have a niche. If he isn't banned, why the hell aren't you picking him? You're absolutely right in wanting to take yet another look at him. But, for the sake of playing devil's advocate, here are somethings that he does well and SHOULD do well.

Damage. Azir should keep his hyper carry status. He's able to do a lot of damage quickly but still isn't "burst mage." How he should do that damage going forward is something I'll bring up later.

Range. Azir should keep his range. Just recently I was against a rework Ryze and I knew that I would absolutely refuse to engage him on his terms. It's so satisfying to be playing a mage and yet feel like you're wielding a spear and keeping someone at the other end of it. That's how Azir at his best should feel to play. Where he gets overbearing is that range ON TOP OF how difficult it is to close that gap and actually touch him.

Zone control. Similar to range, Azir is best when he makes the enemy fight where he wants them to fight. The more tools he has to do that the better.

SHURIMA! By far what sets Azir apart as a mage is his soldiers and how he commands them. Having to "auto attack" instead of casting abilities should be the thing that makes Azir Azir and yet gets lost in the mountain of things he does well.

Play-making potential. Along with being a hyper carry, Azir is good at, should continue to, and is know for making great solo and team plays.

What he doesn't, er shouldn't, do well

Again, the problem is he does a lot of things well so there isn't much he's bad at. So I'm going to take a crack at what he SHOULD be bad at.

We've established his primary goal should be to keep you at a distance and/or keep you where he wants you to be. However, if you get inside of his "defenses" he needs to be vulnerable. Unfortunately he has three ways to ruin your day. He can ult, E away, or E into you getting a shield that may be enough to win. Currently, having a knock back AND an escape is too much. Not to mention that you'll have a flash in every game too. Something has to give. Perhaps he shouldn't be encouraged at all to dive head in. Remove the shield so he's less safe. Maybe his ultimate should do no damage. Perhaps playing around his E mobility should be a more central part of his kit. A longer, static cooldown may make both players AND teams more aware of his high and low points. Especially if it was accompanied with a new visual indicator for when he can cast it. Literal sands shifting around their ruler. TL/DR: No damage on ult, longer E cooldown, more visibility and counter play potential on his mobility.

Early game dominance. Q>Auto>Auto>Thunderlord's is...a disgrace frankly. Commit to the "hyper carry" concept and make him weak early on but in more meaningful and visible ways. I have some ideas that I'll touch on last.

Q. Azir's Q cooldown should also go up. He should be more about smart placement of his soldiers and about continually spawning them in fights as opposed to constantly trying to reposition them all over the battlefield. As a balance, the slow on it should be more powerful so that being hit buy it is felt in more ways than just damage.

What I'd like to see Azir become

Soldiers. It's bad for the game that Azir can do all the damage he needs with one soldier. Two is plenty and three is gravy. What if needing to get three soldiers on the battlefield before being a threat was a thing. And what if being able to get four or five soldiers all in the same fight was the hallmark of a great Azir? A way to hit his early game dominance while promoting the above playstyle would be to make soldier damage additive. Currently one soldier does 50 damage at level 1. Subsequent soldiers deal a % reduction of that to the same target. What if instead each soldier always does 30. Currently, one soldier is enough with the Q>A>A>TL combo to take most mids to 60% health at level 2. This new system promotes skillful play while taking early power away forcing players to spend more resources BUT getting more damage when played right. Literally as I type this a concern has struck me. Azir's Q scatters the soldiers out into a line. So it'll be nigh impossible to get three soldiers to attack the same target. Hm. But if late game if there are more soldiers out, that last longer, form up tighter, and have adjusted(if needed) radii then that may not be a problem. What if also attacking decreased the recharge rate on soldiers.

Zone control. I really like the mental image of Azir's soldiers as an extension of his self. He the body, they the spear. As Azir, you should always be trying to keep them on the pointy end of your spear. So, as mentioned before, his Q having a stronger and longer lasting slow, but becoming less spammable, would be a good way to do that. A decisive use of a Q to put the enemy where you want them. Perhaps his soldiers should have a slow too but that may be to much and he'll get Rylai's anyway. Honestly I wonder if a majority of problems with mages right now would disappear if Rylai's was removed. Rylai's is not a utility pick. It's a must buy. Tangent over.

That's it for now. May revisit this later with a clearer head. Currently 1:44am. I'll fix any typos later maybe.

What do you think reader?

Holy. I like the idea of lowering the damage of one soldier and being able to summon more. Makes him feel more like an emperor and gives more zone control. Although I'd see some cooldown values and recharge time being changed.

DeathBurstJul 25, 20161 votes

What you suggest with the Soldiers would push him out of hyper-carry territory and more inside burst mage territory. If you really want him to play as an hyper-carry, he needs to be able to output consistent damage with only one soldier.

TheMeta88Jul 25, 20161 votes

Forcing Azir to take the time to get more than one soldier on the field would make him a burst mage? While doing all the damage you need with one soldier DOESN'T make him a burst mage?

Azir's current playstyle is the latter. Get one soldier out, Q, three autos, and the squishy is dead.

How does my idea make him a burst mage?

DeathBurstJul 25, 20161 votes

I may be wrong, but I think that it will force him to actually exploit the fact that he can stack soldiers and always do that and combo his skills. Look at Syndra, she needs to take the time to prep her spheres, and she's still really a Burst Mage. Same was true for Zed too, when they nerfed individual Shurikens but increased the rewards for hitting many, that didn't change Zed from an Assassin to a more DPS fighter or anything.

TheMeta88Jul 25, 20161 votes

Syndra's gameplay loop was partially an inspiration for this. The principle that you need to set up to do your damage. The key difference is Azir wouldn't have the burst/instant damage conversion she has.

What I mean by this is if a Syndra was trying to kill someone with just her Q,W, and E it takes some time and skill. What takes much less time and skill is her ultimate. She converts all that hard work into INSTANT pay off. Azir would not have this. His soldiers would have to continue to auto attack.

Just to paint a picture, a good Syndra will Q, W, E, Q, then R. That still takes about two to three seconds total. Compared to say, Leblanc or Rengar who can just delete you instantly.

My Azir would do almost negligible damage with one soldier, his current damage with two, and more damage beyond that. It would still take him 1.5 seconds at least to spawn his second soldier. And he'll still have to auto attack to do damage as opposed to front loaded abilities.

DeathBurstJul 25, 20161 votes

Well, as I said, I may be wrong, but I'm not convinced. Time will tell ^^

MunchCrunchLunchJul 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Not sure yet what changes we will or won't make to Azir before the Worlds patch (6.18). We hit his power noticeably in 6.14, to the extent he's not in a great place for most players, even if they've got quite a few games on him. Might still be strong enough, or even too strong, in pro play though. Need to see some more pro play to get a good handle on how he's looking there, then we can figure out how to balance for those two different needs. At some point we'll also need to make some more fundamental changes to him to give him clearer weaknesses, that's probably a post Worlds thing though.

its not about him being a bad or a good spot. its just like you said. about having clear strengths and clear weaknesses. you can make any champion weaker but it will make him awful to play

Irelia BotJul 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not sure yet what changes we will or won't make to Azir before the Worlds patch (6.18). We hit his power noticeably in 6.14, to the extent he's not in a great place for most players, even if they've got quite a few games on him. Might still be strong enough, or even too strong, in pro play though. Need to see some more pro play to get a good handle on how he's looking there, then we can figure out how to balance for those two different needs. At some point we'll also need to make some more fundamental changes to him to give him clearer weaknesses, that's probably a post Worlds thing though.

Might part of the issue not be Azir and more tied to Rylai's? The item has always seemed a bit too effective ever since the changes to the Slow% for AoE and multi target.

Surr20plzJul 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Not sure yet what changes we will or won't make to Azir before the Worlds patch (6.18). We hit his power noticeably in 6.14, to the extent he's not in a great place for most players, even if they've got quite a few games on him. Might still be strong enough, or even too strong, in pro play though. Need to see some more pro play to get a good handle on how he's looking there, then we can figure out how to balance for those two different needs. At some point we'll also need to make some more fundamental changes to him to give him clearer weaknesses, that's probably a post Worlds thing though.

Flat out admitting they balance around the 0.000003% of players.

Awesome.

JunkοJul 24, 20164 votes

I mean that 0.000003% are the best players in the world. We really shouldn't balance champs around Silver players.

YumaS2AstralJul 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean that 0.000003% are the best players in the world. We really shouldn't balance champs around Silver players.

They balance champions around every elo. While the best players in the world are, for obvious reasons, the best examples to take into account when balancing a champion, that is not to say a champion should not be balanced for low elo. Especially because there are completely different metas for most elos and also for competitive players (for example, Katarina is a dominant pick for bronze/silver but a very situtional, if not mediocre pick for diamond and above)

Darkslayer85Jul 24, 20161 votes

If you're going to rework him, turn him into a battle mage instead of an artillery mage. Gypsylord stated this was one of two options, but I think this one would be easier for Azir players to adjust to.

OleandervineJul 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not sure yet what changes we will or won't make to Azir before the Worlds patch (6.18). We hit his power noticeably in 6.14, to the extent he's not in a great place for most players, even if they've got quite a few games on him. Might still be strong enough, or even too strong, in pro play though. Need to see some more pro play to get a good handle on how he's looking there, then we can figure out how to balance for those two different needs. At some point we'll also need to make some more fundamental changes to him to give him clearer weaknesses, that's probably a post Worlds thing though.

Why do you allow champions like him and Caitlyn to have traps/pets that can't be targeted by anything? Having the traps and his soldiers be able to be killed would go a LONG way towards making them healthier to compete against so you don't feel so helpless as they press in on you. Everyone else in the game with traps and minions have health bars for them, so I don't see how giving these two invulnerable summons works, especially since it's this very aspect that make these champs super problematic.

VenedictosJul 24, 20162 votes

I've been wondering about this for a while and it might come across as a very mean comment - how come you decided to release Azir even though generalists already had a long history of warping the game in all sorts of ways? I understand you guys might have been hard-pressed for his release, but the guy has been dominant for almost two seasons and his balance remains yet to be solved. I really am curious to know what your ambitions and expectations originally were and in which direction you wish to push him.

CarnicoreJul 24, 20161 votes

Honestly, you should probably wait until after worlds. If he's a remotely good pick, he completely dominates the picks and bans. Because he can do everything.

Dominick DestineJul 24, 20161 votes

NERF YASUO PLEASE MEDDLER SAMA

redfeenixJul 24, 20161 votes

Not sure if this is technologically feasible but I had an idea that might fit thematically:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zW0v0nWI-opinion-why-are-sand-soldiers-invincible-they-should-tank-for-their-king-and-be-attackable

MyrddinJul 25, 20161 votes

here's an idea, since you can't make him even remotely playable in solo q yet he's broken in pro play

why not just ban him in pro play and balance him for everyone else?

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 23, 20162 votes

don't think we need to do anything to azir before worlds

I think more ppl just need to start picking up that second dorans

YurÌ on IceJul 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

don't think we need to do anything to azir before worlds

I think more ppl just need to start picking up that second dorans

you mean third Doran's? 2nd is already standard on Azir. People are now adopting the new triple-dorans build to bandage the damage nerfs abit and be able to spam more Q to waveclear.

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miss Janna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XuA3RVBT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-07-23T19:08:37.725+0000)

you mean third Doran's? 2nd is already standard on Azir. People are now adopting the new triple-dorans build to bandage the damage nerfs abit and be able to spam more Q to waveclear.

item 1056 item 1082

EROTIC RAID BOSSJul 24, 20161 votes

everyone gets 2 dorans, his win rate is 41%. he was exceptionally overnerfed imo

CerealBoxOfDoomJul 24, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XuA3RVBT,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-07-24T03:16:22.561+0000)

everyone gets 2 dorans, his win rate is 41%. he was exceptionally overnerfed imo

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Azir

pros have a 53% winrate, I dunnnnnnoooooooo

J3diMindTr1cksJul 23, 20162 votes

He doesn't need to be looked at. He has already been nerfed into the ground. He has one of the lowest win rates right now. Not mention the EU doesn't even really play him. Its mostly TSM and Korea. He doesn't need to be addressed bud. Unless by address you mean buff him again so he isn't mediocre. :-)

YurÌ on IceJul 23, 20167 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't need to be looked at. He has already been nerfed into the ground. He has one of the lowest win rates right now. Not mention the EU doesn't even really play him. Its mostly TSM and Korea. He doesn't need to be addressed bud. Unless by address you mean buff him again so he isn't mediocre. :-)

Actually in Korea he's one of the least played midlaners and not a hot pick, he's only present in NA (Bjerg and pobelter) and EU. And correction - he theoratically has the worst winrate atm. Wait for people to pick up on how to play Ryze, and Azir will hold the title of worst winrate currently.

J3diMindTr1cksJul 23, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miss Janna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XuA3RVBT,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-07-23T19:17:28.260+0000)

Actually in Korea he's one of the least played midlaners and not a hot pick, he's only present in NA (Bjerg and pobelter) and EU. And correction - he theoratically has the worst winrate atm. Wait for people to pick up on how to play Ryze, and Azir will hold the title of worst winrate currently.

Yeah you right. Ryze right now is in a weird place. He is obviously good but people haven't figured him out yet. I know a bunch of TF mains who picked him up and they basically say he is freelo. He didn't lose any damage in the rework. He just gained utility. That is usually a good sign a champion is weak currently. When Korea stops playing them. Though apparently Riot feels win rate isn't everything. We will see what happens. I hope TSM keeps playing him and face rolling people with him.

IxtaliKingJul 24, 20162 votes

I stopped playing Azir when he lost his knock up from his E, I favored a more tanky diver/battle mage play style with him. GypsyLord expressed the opinion that Azir would either need to be balanced around being long ranged hyper carry or mid range Battle Mage, and I kinda agree. I would prefer to see him lose a little range and maybe get back his knock up and some tankiness*. I don't think losing his Shurima shuffle is worth him staying a long ranged hyper carry, it's the most interesting thing about him. But then again, I gave up on Azir a long time ago, so my opinions are invalid really.

Masterchef901Jul 24, 20161 votes

What if Azir's soldiers were given health bars, like Zyra's plants? They don't even need to be very fragile - if you make them require, say, 4/5/6 shots to kill (scaling with Ultimate level) then they'll go down if they're being too oppressive and forward, but still have plenty of time to deal damage before this happens.

Meow Meow CafeJul 25, 20161 votes

Keep talking about Azir. Let the mighty star dragon who is named Aurelion Sol slowly rise. Both Azir and Sol are similar in what they do- Constant DPS.

But since this is about Azir I will say this. I've had a %57 win rate with him and even playing him after his nerfs he's still strong. Riot did lower his mid game damage and Azir is pretty hard to deal with once he's ahead- but isn't every other mid laner JUST AS DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH WHEN THEY'RE AHEAD?!?!?!

As Meddler stated- give him some time being played in LCS then we'll see how he's doing at the moment.

taleofsonataJul 25, 20161 votes

That Leblanc hater again. She doesn't even have a high winrate in LCS beside played by Faker. If she has a high winrate is probably because faker is playing her.