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Zed. How is he healthy assassin?

Saianna··22 votes·2,174 views

Before Zed fanboys will eat me alive. I'm bad with Zed, but enjoy playing him.

(imo) Problem with Zed is: His whole combo R-Q-W-E-AA, active items-Q/R takes less than any target CC can get to him in time. In other words before you stun him, one of your teammates is already dead.

And on top of that Riot slowly removes target CCs from the game.

It's sad when i play as TF and before i pick the right card, hit him, he's already behind his tanks with "free" kill. He's too safe to play.

I know about QSS, Zhyona, but its cooldown is longer than Zeds R. And sometimes you have to use it on other threats than Zed.

Just look on some of assassins like Rengar, Evelynn, Kha. They were extremaly deadly, thus they had to be either nerfed or changed (or both) to create some counterplay against them. Zed is just as deadly yet Riot claims he's healthy assassin. I'm sorry but, that's too heavy of a Bshit for me to believe. I get that he's LC$ star, but for the love of god.. LCS isn't even 1/100 of whole LoL. Create healthy champions for everyone instead of few player-geniuses with reaction time faster than some of supercomputers.

Sorry about rant.. Got frustrated cause noone from my team could catch Zed in CC even once while he was running wild between us.

EDIT:

Zed fanbois took over this thread. Average level of IQ in this thread has dropped by half. Evacuate!

62 Comments

Deadliest One7 votes

I honestly think Zed is an healthy assassin in this game.

First, he doesn't have stealth like the champ you mentionned there, So yo usee him going in and can react to it, its not like rengar or Khazix that when they are ahead they can 1 shot you with Q auto Q without you having time to see them getting out of stealth.

Second, When he does not have ult (even though its on a pretty low cd), he's almost as useless as Darius with his ult on cd.

Third, Zed can be easily cc'ed when he R someone, if not then i dont understand how he can lose games in LCS or Worlds with these ''free kills''.

Zed can be a threat if he's ahead, but in solo queue it is not the best champion to carry. He can be easily shut down with a minimum of coordination with your team. Good solo queue Zed players will rather split push when ahead then forcing teamfights.

He sure can burst down 1 of your allies in 3 sec and kill him, but its 1 person. It's not like a Riven ahead that can 1v3 and get out with a triple kill...

Saianna3 votes

First: All "stealth" champion are crippled. Where they lost TON of stats just so they could dissapear for few seconds. Then some of stealths actually are plain bad. Evelynn or Rengar. In both cases team knows you'll go in. And they can kill you because you have no means to escape other than burning your flash.

Second: 99.9% champions when they don't have ult then they are much weaker. (0.1% is udyr) And then Zed still can poke & clear from afar with his shadow + Q.

Third: Wrong. There is very, very small amount of reliable CC in this game that could do it. And in most cases this CC must be used against more targets.

Zed doesn't need to be ahead. He has so many steroaids in his kit, then even when built AP he could still kill squishy targets.

Your last "argument" Veigar and some others champions are 1kill in TvT. But for some reason they also got nerfed. Like WW. (ok i know he deserved a nerf) press R, then proceed to get smacked.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

Zed has Zero AP scalings, really doubt he could kill anyone if he went ap. lol

His full combo without any bonus ad does 623 + 10% of Targets maxium health (IF they are below 50% health) and thats at Lvl 18 lol

Very Hard Engage6 votes

they say hes balanced because its somewhat difficult for him to 100-0 someone in comparison to others which i can hunderstand should he miss his Q or double Q.

what people need to understand is his energy and CD's are the problem and him always having everything available with the ability to poke in lane, and successfully trade. he has high regen and stay in lane the moment he has his cutlass. and his laning phase isn't even hard with a reliable escape AND 3 health pots. where other ap mids will oom before they can kill him from using their abilities to poke him down.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

Zeds kit and everything he does isn't a problem, its the fact that EVERY mage, midlaner in general who use mana got nerfed because of the recent mana changes. Preety much indirectly buffing Zed. Zed was never a problem before, he was even considered a bad pick, i dont know why people are making all this shit up about him being OP and impossible to beat when just a few months back nobody even played him.

Very Hard Engage2 votes

{quoted}

Zeds kit and everything he does isn't a problem, its the fact that EVERY mage, midlaner in general who use mana got nerfed because of the recent mana changes. Preety much indirectly buffing Zed. Zed was never a problem before, he was even considered a bad pick, i dont know why people are making all this shit up about him being OP and impossible to beat when just a few months back nobody even played him.

its not that he cant be beat, its that we cant 1v1 him until we both have a few items under our belt, he just performs better without items. whats the CD on kennen shuriken? 8s it hits 1 target for 75magic damage + 75% ap ratio? zed shuriken? 6s multiple targets for 75 damage + 100% ad ratio. AND it travels slightly faster. geeee i wonder who has the better level 1.

you just consider him against all other champs and he just performs better than their opponent in lane, it becomes so easy for zed to land 1 or 2 shurikens and suddenly his opponent becomes super pressured into kill potential range from ignite. and no one has a zhonyas this early into the game.

end of laning phase zed is no longer threat, he just comes out of laning phase so far ahead. and its so hard to gank him when he has his shadow + flash.

S H A Y C 01 votes

Ive learned something fairly recently so ill share it with ya'll...whining about op champions is useless, op champions can be beat, sack up and win it for your team. DunSejuani

BobbyCarHaterX6 votes

"muh he has 1 skillshot" - every Zed main

WutsKraken3 votes

His only real "dumb" mechanic is his free waveclear/farming

Otherwise, he is EXACTLY what an assassin should be. He swoops in, takes out his target, still has time to be CC'd (This is why you go in after a fight's been initiated) and gets out in a flash. That's how real assassins that aren't snipers are like guys.

He SHOULD be looking for times where there are no Zhonyas/QSS', he should look for opportunities, not be able to mindlessly spam. Since he's a master of shadows ninja, his ability to jump around looking for opportunities to strike fits his theme very well

If he gets fed, he snowballs and can take out multiple squishies, if he's behind, he has to work to come back,. He cannot assassinate tanks unless he's mega fed and he's not some CC god tank who can be behind but can catch up by using mass utility. He can't out-duel melee carries like Tryndamere or Yi or heavy bruisers like Jax or Bruiser Malphite

As it stands, I honestly think he is 90% a healthy assassin. His only stupid bit is his free waveclear, but then consider other assassins can outdamage him

3tyson2 votes

Thing is in low level whre i play now i usualy am able to dodgd most shit trown at me afther his ult

Its even funnier when i play shaco and he ults so i become inv

Saianna3 votes

i'm talking more about TvT, where if he ults squishy targets there is no reliable CC to stop him getting the kill.

Old Sions cryptic gaze or Veigars old stun were perfect counters against him. But what do we have now? Either CC is too slow to hit him in time, or it's better used against as many enemy targets as possible.. Cause you won't use R as amumu to only catch Zed in teamfight..

ModAcademy Kayn6 votes

Soraka Pool. Nuff said.

Saianna6 votes

Great! What a counter to Zed! 2 weeks later "we believe Soraka is exactly in the spot we want her, so we've added 1,5s delay on her E"

Listen, if there is just 1 and 1 only counter to a champion, then it means this champion was badly created.

Wheatloaf1 votes

I think Zed could probably use some minute changes to his cast times/travel times, but really he's not fundamentally unbeatable. When he Ults you, he'll appear in a consistent position (behind your champion), and after a consistent delay. So, even a time-delayed skillshot CC can be used effectively against him. Velkoz and Xerath both have skills that are effective against Zed, despite being champions that assassins exist to counter.

Other than CC that can be timed to instantly incapacitate him out of his untargetability, his Q can be a little too difficult to juke at close range, so I could understand some changes to that, even if they would be on the order of a tenth of a second increased delay or something around that area.

Marinaras Trench1 votes

shhhh don't talk about how good Xerath is. I don't want my baby nerfed

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Lets not forget of Lissandra, Xerath, in many cases Cassiopiea (Pokes the hell out of people and mana efficient with E last hitting) Malhazar, Swain, Fizz... There are plenty if counters if you just look hard enough.

Narasimha2 votes

You...want more? Ok

Galio Gragas Kayle Leona Lissandra Malzahar Rammus Viktor Swain

Theres definitely more, but this should get you rolling.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

Alistar Fizz Fiora Garen Tryndamere Shaco

Saianna1 votes

melee range CC = this won't help at all.

CC with timer = before CC activates/gets to Zed he's already gone.

Zed fanboizzzz don't understand, huh?

Narasimha3 votes

melee range CC = this won't help at all.

Silly me, I forgot Zed was a ranged champion.

CC with timer = before CC activates/gets to Zed he's already gone.

Good, then he just wasted his ult. Because the beauty of delayed CC is that you can just drop it before he reappears. Either he jumps IMMEDIATELY and wastes his ult, or he stays and I laugh at him.

But I suppose this would require a modicum of intelligence to understand.

Doctor Dyment2 votes

I just play Darius against him. If I can catch him, even for a second or two, then he is dead. Just pop my Q, grab him with my E as he tried to shadow away, proc the W, do one or two auto attacks, and dunk his ass back to the stone age.

Galiö1 votes

And it's easy to catch a guy who's ult literally jumps onto you. I like to build a thorn mail galio and just pop my ult when he ults. puts on glasses

The Necron1 votes

There is tons of counterplay against him is what riot said, I think hes a bit op

Keevalroy9 votes

Remember when they listed the counterplay? Neither do I.

Junkο3 votes

Zed's counterplay is to CC him, or heal the target of his ult. You have 3 entire seconds to do that, 3 seconds is usually longer than a teamfight.

What counterplay do you have against LB? She uses QRW and goes back instantly withing half a second.

Keevalroy4 votes

Zed's counterplay is to CC him,

Huh, you mean like every single champion in the entire game?

Junkο2 votes

Have fun CCing Olaf, LB, Kassadin, Nidalee and Kalista

Baron of Bread2 votes

Just as easy to hit the last four with CC as it is to hit a Zed.

Also you forgot Irelia.

Junkο1 votes

It's easy to CC LB? Sorry but unless you are playing Annie, CCing her is impossible

Baron of Bread1 votes

I was making the point that it is just as hard to hit Zed as it is to hit the four you mentioned, I just did it with sarcasm because I felt you had set up a terrible point.

Also, Soraka actually has an easy time of it, just drop a quiet zone and watch them flounder.

PL551 votes

I think they meant the concept of Zed was healthy because he let's everyone know who he is targeting with a delay and mark on his ultimate.

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

He also only kills one person and is then out of the fight. Kha'Zix has his jump reset, Kat with her passive, Akali with her charge on k/a, etc. He is probably the most single target assassin out there.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

assassins arent healthy to begin with so using that unhealthy standard as your base, Zed's actually "healthy"

what assassins do

  • high burst
  • high mobility already thats fking toxic other things they do
  • reliables go in and blow someone up and get the fk out why is the above necessary? if an assassin goes in, kills someone and cant get out.. he's no longer an assassin; just a kamakaze Assassins are a pretty unhealthy idea to begin with, but Zed fulfills all of it... so he's a good assassin Theres also a delay on his ult... which I assume "counterplay"(lol) is suppose to happen and that makes him "healthy"

we just gotta gut his waveclear some more so we can actually drive zed into forced farming instead of letting him leisurely poking, pushing, and fleeing as he pleases

Saianna3 votes

You've missed important part: Assassins are high risk, high reward. By staying in fight (no options to run away) assassins become voulnerable.

Zed removes "high risk" status with his shadows & range.

Assassins die if they are focused on. But you cannot focus on something that just came for 2-3 seconds and is already gone behind enemy tanks.

That's pissing me off. He goes in kills and gets out. Where the f**k is risk here? Dying of laughing at enemy team trying their best to catch him with new CC skillshot bshit?

Narasimha2 votes

He also removes the 'high reward' part as well. At BEST, he's going to get in, assassinate one target, and get out. That's it. Plenty of other assassins can do much more with a single kill or combo.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

It is a high risk, the fact that a squishy assassin is going into the middle of the team, with no defense what so ever is already risky enough. 3 seconds is a a LONG ass time since most fights last about 4-6 seconds. In those 3 seconds he can be caught in an aoe cc, damage, instantly bursted etc. before he even kills the enemy squishy. Unless they make Zed have even MORE burst. Longer range ult i doubt they'll change his R back. Since its takes quite an amount of time to actually kill the enemy adc. Not just press q w r like leblanc and get out then go back and do more.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

low risk, low reward.. simply as that if you think getting 1 kill is high reward, then you havent played Katarina who has the highest pentakill rate in the game

oh, and her burst happens within miliseconds alluvasudden the 3 seconds Zed gives you to live sounds like a pretty sweet deal

Saianna1 votes

i didn't say Kat was fine, did I?

Also why you guys believe high reward = more than 1 kill or penta? Meh.

Leti the Yeti1 votes

well, in the most literal sense relativity high? high relative to what? we can't claim anything is high without comparing it some sort of base 1 kill or no kill is probably as low as it gets, 5 is as high as it gets

Zed does a good job at getting 1.. which most definitely not very high

In a more debatable sense 1 kill isnt very impressive lol

DubaZuba1 votes

Because of how his ult works, there's a slight delay between when he's trying to kill you and when you die. In this time you can item 3157 , or something else.

That being said, his everything else isn't health.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

Because Zed gives the enemy an actual CHANCE at surving his combo he's not like leblanc where she press w q r e. And your dead, his combo takes time and doesn't flat out destroy you in a second. His R takes time to tick off for the extra damage. And his ult is very easily countered. The reason Rengar and Kha were nerfed (Evenlyn doesn't really count as an assassin really) is because they could jump on you in a split second and kill you. Giving you almost no reaction time. Zeds healthy because he provides counter play to his assassin burst not just an instant 1 second combo death. Though I do believe Zed is a bit to strong right now, but thats mostly due to the fact that Riot nerfed mana. Not really the fact that he's "OP" he's just go indirectly buffed from the mana changes.

Tavish1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/G6PzmFOb-im-a-zed-main-and-id-like-to-share-my-thoughts

This is kind of my counter argument to you, and it is a bit older, but still relevant.

Saianna1 votes

this isn't really counter argument as you also think Zed requires some nerfs.. Right now he's too safe to play.

I dont really care about his damage. It's an assassin after all. But if he can get in, kill then run away then no. That's just badly designed assassin.

KindThought1 votes

I play Nasus mid a lot, and I hope i get a Zed, equal level, gear etc...Zed stands no chance.

Saianna1 votes

Some champions have easy time dealing vs Zed, but what about squishy ones? They don't have huge sustain no tankiness? They rely on their CC. If Riot slowly changes target CC into skillshots or weakening skillshot CC then Zed can roam with smile on his face

TurnUpTrolling1 votes

Urgot is the anti zed. Velkoz Place E behind Zeds target. 100-0 before he can swap shadows. easy peasy

S H A Y C 01 votes

zed is probably the only healthy assasin...the rest are overshadowed by zed. assasins should be able to "zed" other champions in the right situation...but too many of the assasins cant. its not zed thats too strong, its the other assasins that are too weak. my opinion.

Saianna2 votes

You either didn't read my post, or you didn't understand.

Zeds dmg = OK.

Zeds safety as an assassin = NOT OK.

S H A Y C 01 votes

thats a silly assumption... so after your explanation and setting me straight, laughing fricken out loud here for realz...i refer you to my previous post as to how i feel about zed and assassins. if you still dont understand i refer you to the dictionary, look up "opinion" and apply it to my post. More than happy to assist you with any further questions or concerns, but i will not validate parking. Thank you and have a wonderful afternoon.

Saianna1 votes

sorry. I'm kinda tired thus misunderstood your post. That's your opinion. I disagree with it. Have a nice day :)

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