Why Has Riven Not Been Nerfed Yet?

boss10000··81 votes·5,077 views

With her seeing large amounts of play over in Korea and China and the large amounts of complaints people have had with her even when not played competitive isn't it time she was finally actually nerfed and given some dam counter-play?

I don't know who's idea it was to give a manaless champion low cooldowns, masisve damage, stun, shield, damage steroid, ranged AOE execute, wall hop, 4 dashes, etc all this in one kit and has stupid cooldowns, and there is honestly no counter-play to her kit.


Other manaless champions normally have a massive downside to them, weather this be Garen's kiteability or high cooldowns, to Mordekaiser's lack of any mobility, they all have some sort of weakness that they are given due to them being able to freely cast abilities, but with Riven there is none that i can clearly think of? What she's melee? that doesn't really count at all.

Add to this she never really has a weak point at any point in the game, champions like poppy etc are know to have powerful late games but in return have a weak early game or vice versa, with champions having strong early games but weak late games.

But with Riven can you honestly ever say she has a super weak point? only thing i could ever think of is if early game vs a ranged champion but even then she would do better than some such as Garen, etc that have no way to do anything to a ranged top laner.


Riven could really use with a rework or major tuning cause at the moment its not fun to have a champion that can dash almost constantly and then insta kill you with no clear counter-play or weakness, and really needs to be tuned and weakened or opened up to counter-play with which to go against her with.

148 Comments

The Sword Saint33 votes

"When is Riot finally going to see into the future and nerf any champion who beats me so I never have to adjust my playstyle ever?"

Saianna13 votes

Riven is simply too overbearing. Her kit punishes you by sticking your nose 1 inch farther than second turret.

But you'll most likely disagree with me...

Joquan3 votes

It's not that shes OP, shes just binary in lane ( assuming no jungler)

Either you get roflstomped or you roflstomp

Anidan6 votes

given the snowball-y nature of a moba, isn't that normal? If she didn't have that, then people would instead say something like "I can keep her down the entire laning phase, but as soon as she gets a kill on me despite that she makes a full comeback!"

I mean, I really don't know if there's much of anything you can do about a binary 1v1 scenario in a moba.

NERDSMASHER500127 votes

because she's balanced no matter how much the gameplay and balance circlejerk wants you to believe otherwise

xl Kirito lx21 votes

I'm relatively confident that at this point they're just doing it for upvotes.

Dextix LT2 votes

Of course. Just like everyone did with Kassadin,Nidalee. Right? They were also fishing for upvotes against broken champs, right?

xl Kirito lx13 votes

For each champion that the boards were right on, there have been many more they've been wrong on.

Gregor Gysi6 votes

Dude, loads of people actually admit that. We've had a thread about ~1 week ago in which several people were sharing a laugh about how many upvotes their Riven threads gave them, even though they wouldn't even care about Riven. IMO the total upvote counter is a really bad thing.

Dextix LT1 votes

There are a-holes in every group. just because some do, doesnt mean everyone does.

Gregor Gysi4 votes

That's obviously undeniable. Still, the claim that a lot of these guys who create those 'popular threads' like Riven nerf threads would do it just for upvotes is a valid one.

Sulghunter25 votes
  1. Mordekaiser 's abilities cost health.
  2. No one ever seems to realize that Riven has a glass jaw, and that her E's shield has a rather short duration.
Saianna4 votes

depends on how you build her. Also her shield with few second cooldown scalling with AD is capable of nullyfing large portion of burst damage,

Troll for Trump2 votes

Because everyone rushes full damage RIven.

Count Zubat3 votes

{quoted}

  1. Mordekaiser 's abilities cost health.
  2. No one ever seems to realize that Riven has a glass jaw, and that her E's shield has a rather short duration.

Pre-rework Morde (I don't know how it will be after rework) is also a glass canon and it's much, much harder for him to even enter teamfight. You won't run away without burning flash and it's super hard to chase with him. Meanwhile, Riven can easily avoid skillshots, enter teamfihts easily after tanks engage with her mobility and CC, can easily get away even without flash and has superior chasing potential. There's no comparison between those two. Both can be easily killed if CC'd, but Riven has much more tools to avoid being CC'd or even killed.

68636949_DEL13 votes

[deleted]

Prospector Pete29 votes

Oh. It's you again.

Diananmen Square25 votes

Her counters are getting buffed

Garen's silence is getting reduced in duration, that might as well be a buff for Riven.

Dextix LT3 votes

You meant garen is being gutted entirely?

LankPants2 votes

Well it's well known that Riven has some of the most toxic mains.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

I just scrolled down this thread, knowing i would see... him....

Dracid13 votes

she has been nerfed, alot. I remember the last nerfs she got, everyone cried "OMG RIVEN IS SO BAD, SHE IS USELESS NOW" and here we are today everyone bitching she is OP now. Which one is it guys?

Troll for Trump5 votes

no one said "WAA OMG RIVEN IS SO BAD" except for you riven mains. ANd riven mains would be butthurt if they nerfed riven so she lost 1 AD

Dracid7 votes

{quoted}

no one said "WAA OMG RIVEN IS SO BAD" except for you riven mains. ANd riven mains would be butthurt if they nerfed riven so she lost 1 AD

except i dont main riven so thanks for coming out. all you people are just bad and dont want to learn counterplay. instead you just bitch

Dextix LT2 votes

Look, if a champions counterplay is "Dont get close to them" Then that champs is just simply broken is its design.

MisterHealYoGirl2 votes

Most late game ADCs' counterplay is 'Delete them before they massacre you'. Same with Riven.

MisterHealYoGirl12 votes

Riven has two main weaknesses: she's very easy to outpoke, and she's very easy to outsustain. Someone like a Lulu or Ryze top can really ruin her day. She also falls off pretty hard if she can't get early kills, so playing conservatively and punishing her for aggression works well in my experience. By staying at range, you can force her to use her shield and one or two of her Broken Wings just to GET to you, leaving her about half of her damage and no escapes. There are definitely matchups in which she dominates, but bruisers in general (Garen, Nasus, Darius) and ranged toplaners (Lissandra, Ryze, Lulu) really hurt for her.

AbstracT Theory9 votes

{quoted}

Riven has two main weaknesses: she's very easy to outpoke, and she's very easy to outsustain. Someone like a Lulu or Ryze top can really ruin her day. She also falls off pretty hard if she can't get early kills, so playing conservatively and punishing her for aggression works well in my experience. By staying at range, you can force her to use her shield and one or two of her Broken Wings just to GET to you, leaving her about half of her damage and no escapes. There are definitely matchups in which she dominates, but bruisers in general (Garen, Nasus, Darius) and ranged toplaners (Lissandra, Ryze, Lulu) really hurt for her.

Dont bother. You can justify it but they will still QQ

Dextix LT4 votes

Because these justifications are bullshit.

She is not easy to poke. She has DASHES! and a shield on pretty low cooldown. Almost all poke nowadays are skillshots. And riven will just dodge them.

Yes, riven has counters. But having counters doesnt mean a champ is balanced. Even prenerf kassadin had counters, and riot admitted he was broken.

And no she doesnt fall off. Her strenght even if not fed and just farmed is really big. She gets huge steroids on her abilities and even without kills can smash someones face in.

Then, the dashes she uses to get close. You do realise that her cooldowns are high only until about level 6? Riven players rush brutalizer and usually havecd reduction runes. When she gets close she will cc you for 1-2 seconds.Also, she doesnt even need her dashes most of the time. Why? Because her passive empowers her aa's making hitting her skills not as important as one would think.

And no. The fact that bruisers outddamage or beat riven is bullshit. I have made calculations already. Riven outdamages and outtrades and beats every one of them. Also, did ya hear? All of those bruisers are getting nerfed.

Edit: Instead of cowardly downvoting because you havve nothing to say better write where i am wrong.

MisterHealYoGirl3 votes

I didn't say that bruisers straight up outbursted Riven. But someone like Darius can out-trade her; Darius' passive, for example, dishes out of a lot of damage and can't be shielded away. Bruisers also tend to build a lot more health than Riven. I'm not saying that Riven isn't strong, or that I like playing against her, but she does have distinct counterplay patterns and weaknesses that can be exploited.

Dextix LT3 votes

A bad riven does have patterns and weaknessess. A good one doesnt. When we discuss champs and their balance we discuss it in equal skill situations. And in equal skill situations only numerical data can be trusted. I made a mistake by saying that no bruisers outdamage or outtrade riven because darius destroys every melle laner out there.

However in equal skill situations Riven straight up outdamages and outtrades most of the champs with few exceptions. Even the "best" riven counter garen is beated by her. When the champs counters themselves do not counter that champ then he has a broken kit.

Riven doesnt have innate champs weaknesses. The onlly weaknesses come from those who suck at her.

More on my huge post below ifyou want to see my arguments why riven and her kit is broken.

Anidan5 votes

This is a game in which weaknesses are given, and then the champion tends to be given methods of playing around the weakness. Every single champion in this entire game has 'patterns and weaknesses' that a good player 'doesn't have.' This is not a trait exclusive to Riven.

In equal skill situations... many, many things can happen, and mistakes can be made. We cannot assume perfection outside a tournament. "She out-trades everyone with few exceptions" why are you purposely dismissing counters with this statement? There are skill match-ups, like Jax, and Olaf (yes, even now). Then there's people that straight screw her up, like Garen until his rework, Renekton, and Darius until his rework. Then there's the non-melee champions (beceause top isn't melee-only like some top-laners want it to be) like Lissandra that Riven can do fuck-all about, and who has much better teamfighting on top of that.

This is the game of outplays. You win or you die. Riven punishes mistakes, but she can't do near as much against better play, or countered play. She is made of glass and sand, with her sword being the only steel object about her. If you want to willfully dismiss counters and counterplay options by saying "But a good Riven can circumvent it!" then you can go ahead and do that, but remember that just about every champion in the game has ways of circumventing weaknesses. The ones that don't are the ones that people tend to say need buffs.

Dextix LT2 votes

This is a game in which weaknesses are given, and then the champion tends to be given methods of playing around the weakness. Every single champion in this entire game has 'patterns and weaknesses' that a good player 'doesn't have.' This is not a trait exclusive to Riven.

Look at darius. Even if a good player plays him he still has his weaknesses, look at any other goddamn champ. Most of them have weaknesses even when played by a good player. Why? Because their kits are not overloaded that they would have almost everything.

And now about the counters. I have made calculations, so did other people. You want to know the interesting part? Most of these so called "counters" are outtraded and outdamaged by riven by counting numbers. Yes. Thats right. Matchmeatically calculated. Her "counters" are beaten by her.

And dont bullshit that she cannot do anything against better/countered play, because her kit is so full of everything that she is capable of having many roles and far too many choises.

Dracid3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xp7RvJBl,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T15:53:19.702+0000)

Look at darius. Even if a good player plays him he still has his weaknesses, look at any other goddamn champ. Most of them have weaknesses even when played by a good player. Why? Because their kits are not overloaded that they would have almost everything.

And now about the counters. I have made calculations, so did other people. You want to know the interesting part? Most of these so called "counters" are outtraded and outdamaged by riven by counting numbers. Yes. Thats right. Matchmeatically calculated. Her "counters" are beaten by her.

And dont bullshit that she cannot do anything against better/countered play, because her kit is so full of everything that she is capable of having many roles and far too many choises.

and so does riven. but you'd rather bitch about her than learn to play around them. stay bad kid

Dextix LT1 votes

And you would rather use Ad Hominem attacks instead of giving a logical argument for a discussion. Also i find it fully that a silver is telling a diamond to "stay bad" Well if "staying bad" is more beneficial to me than you "staying good" i have no problem with that. Stay good, master.

Dracid3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xp7RvJBl,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T16:19:43.032+0000)

And you would rather use Ad Hominem attacks instead of giving a logical argument for a discussion. Also i find it fully that a silver is telling a diamond to "stay bad" Well if "staying bad" is more beneficial to me than you "staying good" i have no problem with that. Stay good, master.

you are bad, and should feel bad

here is a thread that isnt a bitch thread like this one with people who actually are constructive instead of whine like you

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/h7xnnHHE-no-qq-how-do-i-beat-riven

Anidan4 votes

I'm going to be honest: I was going to reply to this, but then I saw how it is was worded and realized it really isn't worth the effort. You're going to believe Riven is overpowered no matter what anyone says until she gets nerfed.

The tone and wording shut down any desire for discussion.

psst: if you're going to bring up the point of math, you should probably... y'know... bring it up. Saying you've done the calculations proves literally nothing when the calculations aren't present. I don't get to say I've done a study without bringing up the statistics of the study in any sort of academic or scholarly discussion.

Dextix LT1 votes

Yea yea, excuses excuses, people always find them. You can just simply say " i cannot answer your points" or not say anything at all instead of making up excuses.

I believe that riven is overpowered bedcause no person has really showed me that she isnt. All their arguments can be refutedd. They talk about rivens weaknesses which are non existant in equal skill situation (which should be considered everry time a champ is balanced).

Also, this is just how i write. I debate like this too, less swear words in debates but i am always like this, everyone is different ya know.

Also, wait a bit, going to find them in one of the posts and show them, at least one of them because digging though all of the old archived LOL forum threads would take ages.

Anidan4 votes

Alright, fine. Weaknesses: Cooldown dependent to a fault if she wants to accomplish anything. If she uses her cooldowns on you (she will) then now YOU dictate where the fight will go. If you want to start killing her at this point, all she has to try and say otherwise will be auto-attacks. Most champions that she counters can't deal with the damage in the first stage of Riven's assault, however, if someone could do so then they would have complete control over her cooldown phase. She is melee, and blew all of her dashes and 90% of her damage on you just a second ago. Punish her for it. If you let her walk away after she bursted you then of course she's going to win.

She is completely and utterly reliant upon her mobility to accomplish anything at all because all of her abilities have fairly short range. Ki Burst has fairly low base damage (170 at Rank 5) and has a .75 second stun on 125 range. That is extremely short. If she can't auto-attack you, she can't Ki Burst you. It is 200 range under the influence of her ult, to keep in line with her AA distance. The knock-up on her third Q is in a 150 range radius (225 under the influence of her ult). That is, again, really, really short. If you can keep away from her even through her mobility then you'll have very few problems with Riven's damage because that mobility allows access to 90% of her damage. The alternative is to be able to out-trade her, and while fewer people can do that, more people can keep away from her reliably enough to she can't do much to them.

She is literally made of glass. If she builds tanky, her base damage is just barely par for the course. If she builds glass cannon, her damage is high but she is squishy as all hell, as damage dealers are wont to be. She has to be in your face to do that damage, and the mobility and shield help her to do that. Her shield is her main form of defense, and it only lasts 1.5 seconds. Wait it out, then, again, dictate the fight afterward. She is a front-loaded champion. Wait for the front to pass you buy and take out the unarmored hind section.

Not only is all of this important, but she's also combo reliant. If you can keep her from reliably using her Q combo on any single person then nobody will take significant damage, thanks to it only doing 90 (+60% AD) for the individual hits. Hard CC screws with her in a way unique to champions like herself and Vayne, in that CC screws with them, as it screws with everyone, however, because they don't have instantaneous damage then a CC allows whoever is being targeted to reposition themselves and force Riven to try to find someone else to hit with the remaining now-lackluster damage, similar to how Vayne will have to find someone else to proc Silver Bolts on. This is part of why Garen can fight her so easily: he silences her, disrupting her combo and flow of the fight, and deals damage continually, even when she has him CC'd. You can't stop Justice.

Now, on to people that can fight her given these weaknesses: Garen, Olaf, Kennen, maybe Teemo depending on how the match-up plays out, Darius, Renekton, Cho'gath, Irelia (skill-based, again), Lissandra, and a few more I'm sure I'm forgetting.

She has weaknesses. She has counters. She cannot circumvent any of these weaknesses.

Saianna7 votes

outpoke, ya?

shield scales with AD with small dash pretty low CD

vs

poke that most likely requires resource and is most likely a skillshot pretty low CD

outheal, ya?

rush hydra 1st, or brutalizer, in any case you still have shield to soak damage

vs

heal ability that costs resource lifesteal passive (nasus)

OK, I get that some champions exceel at making Rivens life miserable, but what about others. Is this league of counterplays or skills? Because some champions are just meant to be Rivens food no matter what you try to do to save yourself...

Realhrage7 votes

just to make a point, ryze makes most of these arguments invalid. his point and click snare prevents riven from using any abilities but R and W, and rushes tear most of the time.

Muh boii3 votes

I think the problem is Ryze

TotalJerk11 votes

She has been nerfed 6 times. Her last nerf was about 6 patches ago: 5.9

YCitizenSnipsY7 votes

Who's running Riven in the LCK or LPL? I've only seen here competitively twice, once by Fnatic and once by NME, and those are NA and EU teams. Riven doesn't have low cooldowns, she achieves 40% cdr through items and masteries. I guess she doesn't have a weak point during the game if it only last 25 mins, but once you actually reach a real late game and have to compare her performance to champions like Nasus and Jax late game, I'd say she pretty weak late assuming you have an actual front line. She might get nerfed when the weaker armor items hit live, but a rework I doubt it.

Celeste Benal2 votes

Weaker armor items will be an indirect buff to Riven because she build damn near full AD.

VDc0zCqe0w2 votes

{quoted}

Who's running Riven in the LCK or LPL? I've only seen here competitively twice, once by Fnatic and once by NME, and those are NA and EU teams. Riven doesn't have low cooldowns, she achieves 40% cdr through items and masteries. I guess she doesn't have a weak point during the game if it only last 25 mins, but once you actually reach a real late game and have to compare her performance to champions like Nasus and Jax late game, I'd say she pretty weak late assuming you have an actual front line. She might get nerfed when the weaker armor items hit live, but a rework I doubt it.

why the fuck 7 people upvoted a post spreading misinformation?

she's been played at least 2 times in LCK alone

Kuroi862 votes

Yes, lets forget all the nerfs that Riven has taken straight to the face in her history. Lets act like they were buffs and demand more nerfs, because that works.

YasuoJungleorAFK1 votes

She is so weak in lane atm vs any bruiser, i have been taking her jungle, but wtv keep the circlejerk...meanwhile Lee get's buffed.

Hard Penetrator2 votes

She isn't weak, you must be bad. Almost all of her matchups top are skill based. What champions exactly counters your Riven?

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