Upvote this thread if you think sona could use some small buffs

HateDaddy·Jul 17, 2015·150 votes·4,147 views

Pls and ty

89 Comments

NERDSMASHER5000Jul 17, 201528 votes

I completely agree. Also, you are Diamond and therefore your opinion means more than anyone else's whose rank is below yours.

Let's get some actual Plat+ (people who actually know about the game/balance/how to play) gameplay & balance discussion going in this thread.

HauntJul 17, 201511 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree. Also, you are Diamond and therefore your opinion means more than anyone else's whose rank is below yours.

Let's get some actual Plat+ gameplay & balance discussion going in this thread.

+1 to you both. Sona need massive buffs she is the worst champion in the game atm. Fact. Her stun is able to miss, and that makes her incredibly reliant on skill, probably too much. There is no reason to pick her over other supports.

SwiftKitten88Jul 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

+1 to you both. Sona need massive buffs she is the worst champion in the game atm. Fact. Her stun is able to miss, and that makes her incredibly reliant on skill, probably too much. There is no reason to pick her over other supports.

+1 for the awesome amount of sarcasm in that post, plus the fact about how true it (the sarcasm) is.

HateDaddyJul 17, 201526 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree. Also, you are Diamond and therefore your opinion means more than anyone else's whose rank is below yours.

Let's get some actual Plat+ gameplay & balance discussion going in this thread.

right?

Yesterday it took me hitting level 6 just to 1v2 solo the enemy AD and Support, it's extremely underwhelming and lackluster. I think her heal should be buffed by a significant margin.

NERDSMASHER5000Jul 17, 201526 votes

{quoted}

right?

Yesterday it took me hitting level 6 just to 1v2 solo the enemy AD and Support, it's extremely underwhelming and lackluster. I think her heal should be buffed by a significant margin.

I agree. Also, she's incredibly difficult to play. I have no clue why Riot would make an ultimate skin for a champion who is incredibly hard to play and isn't even a strong pick when played correctly. High skillcap, low reward.

Made a misplay? Have fun dying instantly because she's the squishiest support in the entire game.

HateDaddyJul 17, 201514 votes

{quoted}

I agree. Also, she's incredibly difficult to play. I have no clue why Riot would make an ultimate skin for a champion who is incredibly hard to play and isn't even a strong pick when played correctly. High skillcap, low reward.

Made a misplay? Have fun dying instantly because she's the squishiest support in the entire game.

Yeah I know, the micro required to master this champion is insane, it's literaly not even worth it atm

SinlaireJul 18, 20151 votes

makes Riven look like a chump

junglerboy16Jul 18, 20152 votes

Well, she is a chump, you just need to get yourself the new customizable "Riven Main X" face shield to see your gameplay improve tenfold!

PartholonianJul 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Made a misplay? Have fun dying instantly because she's the squishiest support in the entire game.

I think Zyra might actually be squishier, as well as having 0 sustain. But other than that, this is completely true, which makes it kind of puzzling whether the other part was intended as sarcasm or not. Her high risk and short range really DOES make her difficult to play, although "incredibly" is a bit over the top.

HateDaddyJul 18, 20158 votes

{quoted}

I think Zyra might actually be squishier, as well as having 0 sustain. But other than that, this is completely true, which makes it kind of puzzling whether the other part was intended as sarcasm or not. Her high risk and short range really DOES make her difficult to play, although "incredibly" is a bit over the top.

She's legitimately the hardest champion in the game to play by far

Know how many keyboards I've replaced because of her?

DemacryJul 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think Zyra might actually be squishier, as well as having 0 sustain. But other than that, this is completely true, which makes it kind of puzzling whether the other part was intended as sarcasm or not. Her high risk and short range really DOES make her difficult to play, although "incredibly" is a bit over the top.

Zyra does actually have (barely) lower base HP and armor than Sona. You only really feel it if you take a lot of poke though, due to her lack of sustain. Zyra's threat range is much larger than Sona's however and proper positioning is key to performing well on her.

To the topic at hand, Sona doesn't need any buffs as it stands. I've seen a couple players complaining about her lack of damage and powerful heals but that's not what the current Sona is about. Probably the strongest parts about her kit are the small shield and movement speed she can grant every 6 and 7 seconds late game respectively (with proper CDR). Sona is a teamfight-skirmish champion; the longer the fight goes on the more effective she becomes.

Even at 0 AP, a 110 HP heal + 115 shield + 1.5 sec, 14% speed boost every 7 seconds is incredibly useful. That's before you even take into account her potential damage-reduction/slow passive and ultimate. That she can provide the bonuses to all four allies at once at no additional mana cost is huge.

What Sona lacks in numbers she makes up for with overwhelming utility. She's not the easiest support to play, especially in this targeted-CC-infested meta. Her aura bubble is very small, demanding correct positioning for both offense and safety, and due to the short duration of the shield and speed boost, proper timing of her skills is critical. She's not a mindless spam champ, she fills a jack-of-all niche that most other supports in the game can't really compete with.

originary91Jul 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree. Also, you are Diamond and therefore your opinion means more than anyone else's whose rank is below yours.

Let's get some actual Plat+ (people who actually know about the game/balance/how to play) gameplay & balance discussion going in this thread.

I am plat, and therefore by your own admission my opinion, no matter how retarded, matters. Therefore what I have to say is that I disagree because Sona is OP as FARK, anyone who wishes to dispute this clearly hasn't seen an AP sona in action - because the bitch does damage.

Silents429Jul 18, 201518 votes

I am so confused. Is this satire? Or you being serious? The comments have me going in circles.

HateDaddyJul 18, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I am so confused. Is this satire? Or you being serious? The comments have me going in circles.

The world will never know

ProfDrDeathJul 18, 20154 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Sona

It is pretty much satire.

SpiralBlackJul 17, 201514 votes

Q-W-E, there goes my entire mana pool, please buff.

UltraSceptileJul 17, 20158 votes

her Q only does half my HP early game, and because she's so squishy and her heal is so weak, it should be buffed. after all, a squishy champion whose only CC is her ultimate should have stronger abilities that deal more damage, which sona lacks right now.

NorscoutJul 18, 20158 votes

lol @ people thinking this is satire. Bitches, GD never fucks around with Sona buffs. Think this shit is a game???

iainB85Jul 18, 20157 votes

Honestly needs a rework, not a buff. She has insane poke damage in lane which most certainly does not need to be buffed.

At the cost of that, she has the jack of all trades syndrome where she has sustain, move speed, and AoE hard CC but they are either subpar or very hard to land consistently.

She's not in a good state but just adjusting numbers won't help either - Riot needs to focus her kit to 1 or 2 of those areas and gut the rest. She simply can't be good at everything she does right now.

BlkStar100Jul 18, 20151 votes

She was rektworked already . I think she suffered enough . The poke damage makes her early sweet but the skill cap comes to securing safe position and a good ult . She is after all pretty squishy and her base speed is horrible atm ( excluding E usage , mana reasons ) .

ColdbirdJul 23, 20151 votes

Agreed. The rework was a complete disaster. It nerfed her sustained damage, nerfed her damage to towers, nerfed her burst and made it too dependent on other team members, homogenized her W and gave it an internal conflict (high health or low health? Lose half of the ability or risk an all-in with the shortest shield in the world?), reduced the team-helping capability of her E (it's basically just an extra pair of activated boots for her), reduced her zone of influence by over 80%, destroyed the beautiful symmetry of her cooldowns, and flat-out disrespected her character. It didn't even resolve most of the problems they were trying to address! Not to mention that the way the rework was handled was just disgusting: 3 months of silence at a time punctuated by the occasional dismissive comment. I hope Fearless never touches another champion again.

The issue isn't her power. It's pretty easy to argue that Sona is powerful. The issue is design. Riot destroyed one of the only two stance-based characters in the game and made her less fun to play (and for no real reason). As it is, she still pokes, still sustains, still moves fast, and still ults. Nothing new there. But now she's mostly worse at all of those things. And with ever-growing mobility creep and more versatile champions continually entering the game, she doesn't have the tools to compete.

Should she be as bloated as Lee Sin? No. But look at the new Gangplank rework, or at Tam, or even Braum! They all have interactive playstyles which have obvious and tangible effects on the game. Chained powder keg slows/damage, or transporting allies/engulfing enemies, or stopping almost every projectile in the game every 18 seconds! Hell, every other support has some sort of non-ultimate peel (even the dedicated healer!), whether it's a silence, a slow, a stun, a hook, whatever. But Sona is way too reliant on her only "play-maker" (ugh..), her ult. She needs a silence, or a stun, or...something! Yes, she has her W and E powerchords, but those are rather weak these days and don't truly peel; they are also unreliable since Riot slaughtered her cooldowns.

(**Fun Fact: **Riot wanted to know why Q-powerchord use has gone up while the others have gone down, and they were suggesting nerfing her Q-powerchord even more to "correct" this issue. Their Sona nerfs are literally leading to more Sona nerfs! That's insane!)

I get that the majority of people don't want to buff a "strong" champion, but the rework didn't make her strong. It actually made her a lot weaker. It just put her into the spotlight and encouraged people who had little-to-no experience with her to see her strength for the first time and then call for nerfs. Worse still, the rework removed many of her niche abilities (speeding up minions, helping siege towers), made her HARDER to balance (do you balance her Q damage around just her using it, her entire team using it, or somewhere in-between?), made her gameplay more binary (dominate in lane or lose it), made her stupidly dependent on her team (I get that not every champion should be an amazing duelist but, even with the advantage, she's probably gonna lose against almost anyone in an extended trade), gutted her most defining feature (auras), and gave her mains/fans one of the biggest slaps in the face since MTG's 2013 Emmara Tandris debacle.

Sona either needs to go back to how she was (unlikely) or receive a real rework to put her on par with today's roster. The one she received in 2014 was a sick joke, a huge nerf in disguise stemming from ignorance and carelessness. It looks more like someone just gave up 1/4 of the way through and tried to put her back together mostly how she was, but worse. She still has a ton of invisible power, but instead of being literally invisible now (the added colour effects changed that) it's tied even more into what her team does. Old Sona had a passive design and her playstyle was flexible. New Sona's design is still passive, but appears active because she has to "move around more" to buff her teammates, and it's also less flexible now. She should be reworked to encourage a truly active playstyle instead of the faux-active one she has now.

Obviously, many are going to disagree with me for countless reasons (my rank, my skill, the fact that I haven't made a MOBA, insert your fallacy here), but I would argue that most people with considerable experience with her before the rework will generally agree that she needs to be rescued from her current state, and I would ask them to speak up. Once again, it's not her power that's the main issue, it's her terrible design.

68636949_DELJul 17, 20155 votes

[deleted]

2Become dustJul 18, 20151 votes

Lol 5 downvotes wonder why

NorscoutJul 18, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=2Become dust,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xg6wxAMB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-18T01:43:06.184+0000)

Lol 5 downvotes wonder why

Salty ADC mains' tears were hitting their mouse

2Become dustJul 18, 20151 votes

I still don't understand why >_>???

NorscoutJul 18, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=2Become dust,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xg6wxAMB,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-18T01:47:27.785+0000)

I still don't understand why >_>???

Well the tears of ADC mains are numerous and thick with salt, so when they land on a mouse button, it hits with enough force to click said button. ADC mains can do nothing without a support, so they just hovered over the downvote button waiting for someone to initiate.

68636949_DELJul 18, 20155 votes

[deleted]

2Become dustJul 18, 20151 votes

No i was serious why???

manbearswineJul 18, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=2Become dust,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xg6wxAMB,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-18T01:56:56.877+0000)

Interresting

The winrateard is the natural enemy of the competitive sheep,most of the opponents of sona buffs are winrateards,I'm guessing that's where the downvotes came from.

Akali is SO HOTJul 17, 20155 votes

Her damage is too lackluster imo

IcyPepperJul 18, 20154 votes

I can't tell if this entire thread is serious or satire.

Honestly, I don't mind it either way. Sona buffs? Woot. The humor in this thread? Still leaves me in stitches. I'm not even salty at all.

Remlap1223Jul 18, 20153 votes

How about for starters, giving her a stack of Power Chord on her ultimate. Then, give her 335 MS instead of 325. We can go from there, but I think I've only scratched the surface on what her problems are.

HateDaddyJul 18, 20153 votes

{quoted}

How about for starters, giving her a stack of Power Chord on her ultimate. Then, give her 335 MS instead of 325. We can go from there, but I think I've only scratched the surface on what her problems are.

Yeah, she needs major buffs honestly. Her winrate is so abysmal, I have no idea how riot can leave her in such a trash state?

A Miss FortuneJul 18, 20152 votes

Not sure if this thread is serious or not, so I'll give my opinions on buffing and not buffing Sona.

Against Buffs Sona currently is probably the most versatile champion in the game. She has literally everything pretty much. She has damage, movement speed buffs, heals, slows, can lower the enemy's damage, a stun, shields. She can do incredibly well in bot lane and incredibly well in mid lane. Not one of her abilities alone is extremely strong aside from her ultimate, which is game-changing and it can win games alone but she uses her entire kit to make her someone you really have to keep in your mind. As a support she can definitely keep a team in the fight, engage, disengage, and is overall able to fit in most team comps properly especially with ADCs like Ezreal and Miss Fortune who she synergizes EXTREMELY well with. As a mid laner, she has the potential to one-shot someone (I've personally one shot a lot of people when I use to main Sona Mid/Support) and doesn't need much besides a Lich Bane, she has insanely strong heals, and her burst is something new to the game that rarely any Supports besides maybe Karma can ever bring into mid lane.

For Buffs Sona is extremely mana hungry and really, it prevents her early game from being how good it could be. She's squishy and immobile, and she actually was a pretty good mid laner before her nerfs. It wasn't that hard to poke someone down and force them to either be denied farm/exp, recall, or die. The nerfs to her were pretty unfair, and definitely made her damage much lower. While she definitely wasn't forced into the Support role, it made it seem like they didn't want her to be succesful elsewhere. She has plenty of room for counterplay, and her early game was hit fairly hard where she is suppose to excel and where she is suppose to be a god in lane. Lowering her heals, lowering her movement speed, lowering her damage multiple times. She could use a buff to her mana, or just lower the costs of her damage and healing spells.

NeckoeJul 18, 20152 votes

Riot explained that she is a hard champ to balance, just because of the way her kit is. For example, if her heals were strongs and she gets a lead, she could be difficult to kill in lane.

HateDaddyJul 18, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Flat Minor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xg6wxAMB,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-07-18T00:48:50.141+0000)

Riot explained that she is a hard champ to balance, just because of the way her kit is. For example, if her heals were strongs and she gets a lead, she could be difficult to kill in lane.

I'm more of an E Flat Minor guy, myself. Gr8 key

ColdbirdJul 23, 20151 votes

That's the great irony of the rework. They didn't actually adjust her kit in any way to make it easier to balance her. They actually made her more difficult to balance and nerfed her at the same time!

The rework literally added one new component to her kit: a shield. Everything else is, functionally, identical to her old kit, but generally with lower numbers. Yes, Q gives an on-hit buff instead of an AD increase, but it's still just damage for your teammates. Only now, the damage ratio for Q is MORE dependent on your allies using it (and it can't hit towers and it doesn't benefit AD champs as much). W also gives a stronger heal when the targets are at lower health, but then the heal numbers were nerfed anyways, so it's not as strong in comparison to her old heal as the ability would suggest.

Theoretically, she's stronger because she can "hit 4 teammates" but... she could do that before. The area of her auras were cut by over 80% to "justify increasing the strength of her individual abilities" but... her abilities didn't really get stronger. Certainly not strong enough to justify an 80%+ area cut. Some have even been weakened!

Further, the impacts of these nerfs wasn't fully considered: her passive's uptime has been cut substantially because of her cooldown changes, which leads to her having less access to it's unique effects (especially for W and E). The "jack-of-all-trades" support is being locked out of her... jack-of-all-trades-ness?

Yes, she could get out of hand in lane. She could be difficult to kill. But how is that different from any other champion? Plus, a Sona with a great laning phase is less likely to be a true threat mid- or late-game compared to: Annie, Morgana, Blitzcrank, Leona, etc.

tl;dr

The rework was a miserable failure that didn't actually solve any of her core problems and made her gameplay worse.

Slamurai JackJul 18, 20152 votes

The biggest flaw of Sona for me is that it's actually possible for people to occasionally outplay me when I'm playing Sona. If Riot could just buff Q and W enough that I can just facetank the enemy bot lane in all ins, I think she'll be in a fine spot. Definitely underwhelming at the moment.

Rico NastyJul 18, 20152 votes

Honestly I'd be cool with even a rework. She has a really outdated kit for a support, she feels more like a really shitty mage rn.

Lauricella3Jul 18, 20152 votes

ok, lets make her q a skill shot and give her ult a 0.75 second delay :)

SOLDIER1stClassJul 18, 20152 votes

Buff Sona boobs

SociopathFriendJul 18, 20151 votes

Well, I came ready and willing to read about proposed Sona buffs... and then it's literally just a thread saying "Buff my champ". A thread equally as worthless as "This champ is OP, nerf them!"

eXttJul 18, 20151 votes

Sona's pretty easy to play, and imo is fine. She has an absorb for the entire team around her + heals the 2 lowest hp champs. Her E is a sprint for the entire team around her, pretty much sivir's ult. And an entire team stun. Her Q + power chord also hits incredibly hard, especially if she picks up Lich Bane later. Just because a champ isn't in the meta doesn't necessarily make them bad. Sona acts as an incredible support later on, and unlike other healing supports she doesn't really have to choose who she wants to save.

ZavernJul 19, 20151 votes

Anyone else miss the old Sona? Now she is just a Lich Bane support for her Q.

Doctor DymentJul 19, 20151 votes

HNNNG. NNNNO. I... cough Uh, no thank you. I already have enough trouble with a Sona building Meja's as it is, I do not want her getting anymore than she currently has. Sorry, but a man has to survive against the supports somehow.

SaiannaJul 19, 20151 votes

Stop begging for upvotes. Jesus! Is this new Youtube?!

Provide us with your thoughts, reasons, observations instead this crap.

moomoomilkUwUJul 19, 20151 votes

I definitely don't have a good elo like Plat or anything, but as an AP Sona player, I think she should be buffed a bit. Her late game is extremely strong (if you get good CS and kills early on), but her early game is just extremely weak. I am not saying her damage should be buffed, but maybe some mana costs lowered or a strengthened shield with her heal, etc.