Why can't brand new players be matched in Bronze games?

ALL MłGHT·Mar 23, 2018·15 votes·1,664 views

I'm not saying I am super high elo but as a silver I am trying to get to gold and it just doesn't work out when I have a brand new player as my jungler.

40 Comments

Mig89Mar 23, 201812 votes

Because some are better than bronze just by being able to use a keyboard and mouse simultaneously. We silver players arent as good as we think we are.

ALL MłGHTMar 23, 20185 votes

I'm not saying Silver players are good but they're better than brand new players. I don't want a brand new player to the game to try to gank for me and give kills. I also do not want to take part in THEIR learning experience.

Mig89Mar 23, 20187 votes

you were one of those people not long ago (im assuming). If you look at silver like the starting point for league then its not a bad system as it. Getting demoted to bronze in this view is worse than being brand new. I didnt downvote you but the system makes sense. Silver is nothing to brag about but being bronze is kinda humiliating. It doesnt take much to improve to gold. i did it so i know its not hard. Im not good at this game

ALL MłGHTMar 23, 20182 votes

Of course I was Silver but being Silver in 2015 is WAY different than it is now. The game is too volatile for there to be new players in the game at even Silver 3. I placed gold 1 last season on my main account and so much has changed since then it’s just so bad now especially how snow bally everything is. If I can’t manage to snowball myself we lose. If you look at my most recent games I went 4/2 in one game where I had a brand new player playing lee sin and 2 other unranked players. I do not like those people weighing me down and that’s exactly what they did. They were a burden and did not know how to pressure or evaluate the map.

Mig89Mar 23, 20188 votes

If theyre bad they will fall. You cant arbitrarily place everyone in bronze because theyre not all that bad. Silver is a shit show but some rank has to be it. If anything, I feel the argument needs to really be made for another rank below bronze for this reason.

HaIlMonitorMar 24, 20181 votes

Do you think that discourages people more from the game, at least ranked if their first 10-20 games is them being stomped then going to bronze? It makes them feel like trash, where if they basically are just placed in mid bronze they might just look at it as (everyone starts here). I know bronze, silver, and even gold players are not that great, but the jump from bronze 1 to gold 5 is pretty big and having people that hit level 30, and do placements probably wont be able to keep up if they are not smurfing.

Mig89Mar 24, 20181 votes

I’ve alwas believed you learn more from losing than winning so I personally don’t see an issue with it. Being new to a game like this and losing rank when new should be expected. Some people might one trick the first 30 levels and be semi decent mechanically and stay silver. Pretty much any online competitive game I’ve played I knew I wasn’t the best starting and didn’t expect a high rank. Obviously some games are different but the attitude going in is usually the same

Ok sure but whyMar 23, 20181 votes

Silver doesn't exist anymore, thanks to Riot stuffing new players into it

Everyone's either Bronze or Gold, and everyone in Silver is working their hardest to get to one of them with every game they play

Snowman ArcMar 24, 20181 votes

If the bronze player isn't worth of bronze, they will climb. No need to ruin other people's games, even as low as silver though, if they have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

webstar1995Mar 23, 20183 votes

failed 3-4 series to gold 5 last season because of this

Mig89Mar 23, 20187 votes

I doubt thats the reason you failed 3-4 series lul. With that many attempts, youre the only common variable.

Dr DogMar 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I doubt thats the reason you failed 3-4 series lul. With that many attempts, youre the only common variable.

you'd be surprised, matchmaking is all fine and stuff right until you get to promos then BAM shit like thresh adc (true story there), teemo jungles and nasus's with literal 38% win rates( we still won that one but god did he refuse to do anything and had no impact on the game, he literally would not listen and buy even one sheen item)

Malix FarwinMar 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I doubt thats the reason you failed 3-4 series lul. With that many attempts, youre the only common variable.

Stock response only works if you know what you are talking about. I'd invite you to play in this elo for a little bit.

Mig89Mar 23, 20181 votes

Ive climbed from silver 4-5 for the past two seasons on both my accounts to gold with a 60% winrate. I knonw the challenges of silver and if you understand it then its not hard to climb. Look up my alt account, Miguel14s and you can see that account is in silver and im working on it now. You literally just pick a champ that goes well into the enemy comp and win. If you look at that account and this one you can clearly see I dont play Ekko, Chogath, Sivir, ADC, MID, TOP, but i can still carry games in silver because I know nobody else really understands Macro play at all. I consider myself a Gold Level support but i know the game enough to play anything in silver and not feed my ass off. Dont look at my one game on fizz XD

webstar1995Mar 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I doubt thats the reason you failed 3-4 series lul. With that many attempts, youre the only common variable.

actually i have an afk at least once in each of my series. it was really bad lucky. like this season it took me three tries to get s2 already. I would win 3-4 in a row to get to series them lose 2

Mig89Mar 23, 20182 votes

Everyone experiences bad luck. If you can admit it was bad luck it doesnt validate OPs point for rigged matchmaking for promos. Riot cant predict who is going to afk.

EschetonMar 23, 20182 votes

Because Bronze teaches them bad habits. And it makes it hard for those with potential to climb. I hope you told that new player to practice normals for a while. Jungle is complicated,

ALL MłGHTMar 23, 20182 votes

I told him to leave my lane alone and farm because when he tried to gank a second time he was 4 levels under me and 3 levels under their jungler. This cripples the game so much when junglers do this.

LegitBusinessmanMar 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because Bronze teaches them bad habits. And it makes it hard for those with potential to climb. I hope you told that new player to practice normals for a while. Jungle is complicated,

Maybe for most games but as the most popular video game in history, you have thousands of resources at your disposable to learn how to not suck.

Shukr4nMar 23, 20182 votes

that s why i keep on saying that elo hell exist and it s in 1200mmr range. because of new players starting with 1200mmr.

MorganFreemanBotMar 23, 20182 votes

I can't remember the exact numbers, but I believe 50% of the league player base - which plays ranked - are at or below silver 3.

This puts silver 3 as the "middle" point skill wise. Half are better, half are worse, and it's the best place to start someone.

Also: You will never have a 'brand new' player as your jungler. You will have a player who managed to hit level 30, which takes a moderate amount of games. And if you're in a place where you're consistently getting placed with people who are just stepping into ranked.. I'd wager that there's a reason for it.

LVL99 Helper TKMar 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I can't remember the exact numbers, but I believe 50% of the league player base - which plays ranked - are at or below silver 3.

This puts silver 3 as the "middle" point skill wise. Half are better, half are worse, and it's the best place to start someone.

Also: You will never have a 'brand new' player as your jungler. You will have a player who managed to hit level 30, which takes a moderate amount of games. And if you're in a place where you're consistently getting placed with people who are just stepping into ranked.. I'd wager that there's a reason for it.

hats off to this

I cringed off planet earth when I read a post in this thread saying "silver is elo hell, you try climbing out of it"

Like, what? No one puts the energy to get good, they just use their energy to fling shit onto the forum

I just solo carried myself to platinum a week ago, and if I remember correctly, when I was placed gold 5, every single game was 9 retarded monkeys plus me. these kids need to get good or stfu

Fear the KaynMar 24, 20181 votes

The problem is also that Silver has a ton of players who just don't play enough to climb IMO. Honestly, you'll find a huuuuuuge gap in terms of skill sometimes, and I'll look at their match history and they just don't play often.

LetMeCarry1983Mar 24, 20182 votes

So fuckin true OP. Other day, I had a team that fed all to fuck. I mean the worst players imaginable. They practically inted in all lanes constantly and I mean constantly. Looked them up only to find my entire team only just finished placements with zero ranked experience(no ranked stats for previous seasons). This is painful to deal with. It's very common around Silver 4. Many many games where teams are widely mismatched. New players should start in Bronze, not SIlver.

SukishooMar 23, 20181 votes

Because not everyone that is new is Bronze.

ALL MłGHTMar 23, 20184 votes

Not everyone, BRAND NEW PLAYERS. Either read the post or don’t comment at all.

SukishooMar 23, 20183 votes

I did and I meant not all brand new players belong there. So you try reading between the lines.

Yaśuo MainMar 23, 20181 votes

He means level 30.

Dude.

SukishooMar 23, 20186 votes

I'm aware of that as you have to be that level to play ranked.

There are players that are innately better than others, and shouldn't be placed in bronze MMR cause they are new to the game

Yaśuo MainMar 23, 20181 votes

Then that will be proved if they get out of bronze mmr.

Sugar MommaMar 24, 20183 votes

Then you'll have Bronze players complaining new players that are really silver/gold elo are ruining their games.

Yaśuo MainMar 24, 20182 votes

Hmm, sounds like OP right now.

Votable JesterMar 24, 20181 votes

Meaning work would be put in and the end result would be roughly the same.

big boi edriMar 23, 20181 votes

The whole brand new player thing is really quite rare in my experience, and usually the other team has someone on the same level. I don't think that really has much to do with you being stuck in Silver though. If you'll look over your match history (past 20 games at least), you've got an average kill participation of like 20%. That's probably having a much bigger effect on your win rate.

Ok sure but whyMar 23, 20181 votes

I'd much rather one good player make 10 bronze games fun before getting sent to gold instead of what we have now, where one bad player makes 10 silver games absolutely painful and shitty and guaranteed to lose

LetmetrollUMar 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I'm not saying I am super high elo but as a silver I am trying to get to gold and it just doesn't work out when I have a brand new player as my jungler.

Don't worry you will eventually climb, just don't spam that many games, you can get into a really bad lose streak.

Now the sad news, it doesn't matter if all the "new brand" players goes straight to bronze, since if you are bronze 5 you can duo q with a friend that is Silver 1 , this particular case happened in one of my promos to s1 , players in there are usually from s3 to gold 5, and yes the bronze player got a rough game.

And if you like the conspiracy theories, math and algorithms. You can find a way to abuse the system from bronze up to plat. In plat and above you can't do much since they have restrictions in order to duo q.

Mysticman89Mar 24, 20181 votes

The average player is low silver skill level when they start ranked statistically speaking, so it makes most sense to start at that average rather than have more than 50% of those new to ranked players just stomp bronze games.

Also, those new players make it easier to get to gold, not harder. Theres 5 potentially clueless new players on the opposing team, versus 4 on your own, so you'll benefit more often than you lose from such players.

Not to say it doesn't feel bad to have one of those clueless folks on your own team, but players that haven't had their skill properly assessed have to start somewhere, and it's gonna feel bad for people involved in those games when the starting guess is wrong, whether it's people getting stomped or people needing to deal with a monkey. Placing people at the statistical average just means most people will not have far to go to before they get to their proper mmr, instead of a whole bunch of people needing to stomp as they climb, or a whole bunch of people ruining teammates games as they fall.

IręlíaMar 24, 20181 votes

Maybe Bronze doesn't want new players.

<3 Evelynn

Snowman ArcMar 24, 20181 votes

I mean, if I get plat 3 teemo jungle with smite exhaust going 0/9, you can get anything.

SalronMar 24, 20181 votes

New players are now matched in bronze, what would be the response to this then:

"Why are brand new players matched in Bronze games?"

"I'm not saying I am super high elo but as a bronze I am trying to get to silver and it just doesn't work out when I have a brand new player as my jungler."

Then what?