With LB reverted, will there be fine tuning with the new runes with her old ratios? I literally walk to lane and lose half my health due to electrocute proc and her combo or whatever. I am just tired of playing against set of champions (Yasuo, Zed, LB) and watch them THRIVE with runes but the second Ryze touches anything it deems worthy for a nerf/rework. Double standards
Edit: There must be angry LB mains because this post has 31 upvote/19 downvote
Altiverse20 votesI mean, it just seems that people forgot how it was in the old days. No one even thinks to build defensively early as mid. While Yasuo and Zed aren't limited to the total of their burst, so building armor against them isn't that effective, I agree with you regarding them. For LB though, her strength is completely limited to the total of her burst.
Pre-rework, literally everyone knew that against LB, you get a Negatron on your first back, no questions. Why did everyone forget that midlaners can build defensively too, if their opponent thrive on the early game? So yeah, Negatron no longer builds into a Banshee so you can only get mantle early. There's the new Nullifying Orb though, which is extra-strong against burst-oriented opponents.
tl;dr Build defensively early, watch how magically LB becomes useless.
Khristophoros49 votesIt's the same as the old days.
Get zoned permanently by LB
Get no items because perma zoned
Get bursted under your turret because no items
Yep super good design
ALL MłGHT7 votesGlad someone understands. But the peculiar part is how much damage she does with just an amplifying tome or dark seal. It’s unnerving. Meanwhile I have to get 4 items on Ryze to be a threat
P4ppino14 votesYes but ryze has the potential to 1v5 once he has 4 items, while LB falls off like a rock.
Emo Twink2 votesIt's the same as the old days.
Get zoned permanently by LB
Get no items because perma zoned
Get bursted under your turret because no items
Yep super good design
at least mr is better than armor. lethality, black cleaver etc cut through armor easily, plus armor has lower values, and mr blocks a lot.
Khristophoros4 votesIt's actually completely irrelevant. You have to counterpick her or you will not buy any items.
Percentages1 votesIt's actually completely irrelevant. You have to counterpick her or you will not buy any items.
Or you’re just bad at the game?
Khristophoros5 votesOr you’re just bad at the game?
You've never been against a good LB player.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku6 votesMost of time the issue is your possitionning/laning... like op complaining about leblanc as ryze. The main issue here (like often) is your own game level.
Khristophoros16 votesThe problem with champs like LB, but especially LB, is she can punish you for very very very very slight errors in positioning, but you cannot punish her for even huge errors in positioning.
inb4 "that's her job"
Fuck off with these double standards. Assassins should be more punishable by immobile champs. So basically immobile champs should have higher punishment potential. Like legit, if Vel'Koz lands his E on LB she should actually just fucking die instantly.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku4 votesAssassins should be more punishable by immobile champs.
i don't really agree with this...
BUT in LB case, i think its stupid to mix range and assassine thing. i think assassins shouldn't be mobile, bursty along range.
The problem with champs like LB, but especially LB, is she can punish you for very very very very slight errors in positioning, but you cannot punish her for even huge errors in positioning.
i agree more or less (can argue about punish thing).
Snowman Arc9 votesThat's not a solution. Mages mid are supposed to be having reliable waveclear starting from level 7. Getting Negatron first and watching all your mana go away or having no AP to waveclear iis miserable and not healthy, just because a single mid champion can be so oppressive. It's like asking an ADC to buy a QSS as a first item, because the enemy bot lane is Ashe - Malzahar (back when Malz was taken down there).
Aminumbra3 votes[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0jNMcvk,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-05-17T10:04:10.804+0000)
That's not a solution. Mages mid are supposed to be having reliable waveclear starting from level 7. Getting Negatron first and watching all your mana go away or having no AP to waveclear iis miserable and not healthy, just because a single mid champion can be so oppressive. It's like asking an ADC to buy a QSS as a first item, because the enemy bot lane is Ashe - Malzahar (back when Malz was taken down there).
Wait. So you are complaining about the fact that mages can't play without waveclear ... and about LeBlanc ? Choose your side !
And ... Buying Zhonya against Zed is not "oppressive" ? If you spend some golds in mana, LB is useless ( same goes for for QSS + Malz ). Meanwhile, you still have 5 other items to be useful yourself.
No retaliation at all, that's plain stupid. Ahri's WE, Diana WE, Malz E, Kassa QWE, etc There are plenty of instant targeted ( or not even : there is a 0.2 sec CD before she can dash again, which is enough for you to send a spell. Above all if you are aware that she will combo you, and expecting it, which you should if you stand in range. ) abilities that can retaliate quite well. Or course, if you play a losing matchup without defensive items against a pure 1v1 lane-bully, don't expect much. Ever tried playing against Sona MF with Vayne ? Ever tried to play Riven vs Renekton ? That's what a lane-bully is supposed to do : bully his lane, and snowball if you do not play safe.
May be her damages are too high. May be we could nerf her. But honnestly, for low ELO, that wouldn't make any difference. Unless you make so bad that she can't burst a squishy, and then there is no point at all playing an assassin. FFS, Ahri kills a squishy with RWR, Diana with WR AA ... If you are close enough and in 1v1, assassins are not supposed to let you do your life until 40 minutes 6 items, as a carry.
Snowman Arc5 votesLeBlanc is not a mage. She is an assassin. Single target damage with a lot of mobility = assassin. Her only real wave clear comes from her using W and R. I don't understand what you mean by choosing a side.
Buying Zhonya's vs Zed as a first item? Not good. You fall too behind by having less AP and less mana regen, which means you can't shove the waves really fast, leading to Zed being able to farm fairly well, and roaming.
Buying QSS first vs Malzahar is also bad, as far as wave control goes. It's only there to get out out of his R, but you are sacrificing way too much lane control in return.
Also, it's one thing to be a lane bully and another to be forced to build defensively or you surrender control of the lane. At least vs Zed, I know I can have my Exhaust or Barrier up and farm from a distance. Meanwhile he is melee, so I can attempt to poke him while clearing the wave so that his all in won't be as safe. Versus LB, you can't really do that. She keeps her distance, and if she walks up, you know you gotta back off, because even if you land your spell rotation on her, her own rotation will outdamage you heavily. Basically, anything, apart from wave clear, you wanna do in the lane, LB can do better. Safety, positioning, trading, you name it. And if you are not safe enough to wave clear, then you don't have the upper hand in wave clearing.
SweedishGunner5 votesThe only thing a Negatron cloak could even build into for a midlaner is Abyssal Mask which isn't good for like 90% of mids.
TempName548463 voteswhat is banshees veil ... oh yeah its the item thats horrible on mages and even worse against ap assassins ... oh wait
Darkwind5 votesYeah, oh wait is right. Because Negatron cloak does not build into banshees veil. So you'd have to sit on that most awesome of MR items, null-magic mantle, until you have the 3k to purchase the completed item.
Definitely a viable build path for level 6 MR /s
FilDaFunk15 votesWith LB, it's ealry game vs lategame strength. She does fall off. Also, she cannot push for shit, you're ryze.
Handy Sandy 3 votesWith LB, it's ealry game vs lategame strength. She does fall off. Also, she cannot push for shit, you're ryze.
problem is when you push a leblanc in, she can w over the minion wave and with no minion to block for you it's an easy EQR
FilDaFunk5 votesOK...? You pushed her in, don't get close, she's losing cs. She'll also be maxing W, so that's a lot of her daamge she just used to close the gap.
AFilthyCaitMain12 votesor how she can miss everything but still land>AA>Q>RQ and klill you bc electro
saltran17 votesNo adc player should complain about being killed by point and clikc things imo, and I include myself.
Infernape10 votessecond Ryze touches anything it deems worthy for a nerf/rework.
Ryze is broken in competitive, LeBlanc isn't.
ALL MłGHT2 votesBroken? Yeah right, all he is good for is his ult which has been the MAIN problem
Schenix4 votesIt has always been his root. That was literally why the new rework for after this current one was planning on making it a decaying slow until empowered; finally caving in when they have stated themselves that they thought his root was a core of Ryze, and what made him powerful.
The ultimate was giving him another great competitive level tool that has to share the same power budget, which was already being troublesome to figure out how to integrate without breaking him.
Snowman Arc7 votesHis ult wasn't the problem. He just had way too much on his kit.
Point and click root on his W, that could go up to 2 seconds. MS boost and shielding to help him escape or chase. Mini-global teamwide reposition. Good waveclear. Great single target and AoE damage. Flexible tanky itemization with Seraphs and RoA.
I don't think you need all that into a champion's kit. LB doesn't have wave clear, doesn't have follow up, doesn't have AoE, has no utility and very unreliable CC. She only has great single target damage and is one of the most slippery champions in the game, which is why Ryze is nerfed and LB is just irrelevant.
Wolfeur8 votesPredicted it…
Old Leblanc was a pain to deal with, but people seemed to have forgotten it.
ALL MłGHT6 votesI've had games where LB doesn't farm, just roams and gets kills with her stupid combo and comes back to lane and just annihilates me.
Percentages4 votesI've had games where LB doesn't farm, just roams and gets kills with her stupid combo and comes back to lane and just annihilates me.
She used to have a silence, let that sink in for a second...
MorganFreemanBot8 votesNot sure what people were expecting. She was changed because her play pattern consisted of "instantly delete someone from over a wall, then get out with no repercussions."
On what planet was reverting her not going to bring back that exact same pattern?
ALL MłGHT2 votesI think they need to reduce her AA damage so she struggles during laning phase or have her abilities do reduced damage to minions (especially the distortion wave clear zzz). She's an assassin, not a waveclearer
Percentages2 votesI think they need to reduce her AA damage so she struggles during laning phase or have her abilities do reduced damage to minions (especially the distortion wave clear zzz). She's an assassin, not a waveclearer
Her waveclear is fucking awful bro, what are you talking about?
My Waifu Vanilla4 votesExcept her waveclear is on the level of Ahri and Lux. Making it sound like she CAN'T clear waves at all when all it takes is an auto on casters to kill them with W after level 7. You know....the same level most mages get reliable waveclear.
Succubús GF7 votesSo zed can do essentially the same thing to mages. Zoe bursts with one skill instead of two-three. Fizz literally can ult dive you under turret. The thing is, this isn't a leblanc problem. She just finally has the power to not just sit there and be a shit kite mage
Snowman Arc8 votesLB can go Q W and proc Elec and also murder half your HP, with 0 retaliation at all. Nobody else can do that. Fizz has to use all his mobility to get to damage you, so you can at least trade back after. Same for Zed or Talon.
Terozu2 votesNo she has to Q W auto.
P4ppino1 votesActually, q w alone procs it, because q dmg + w dmg + q mark dmg = 3
Terozu3 votesUmmm its three spell casts.
Her Q mark doesnt count towards it anymore that kat's ult can proc it solo.
P4ppino1 votesReally? Then I shall try this in practice mode.
RoseburyNoire3 votesYes, it needs an auto, Q is only on spell
RoseburyNoire3 votesIf you are in range for her W to hit you AFTER you saw her start casting her Q you made the mistake her, it's like saying you are in melee range vs a Darius. This is their success case, just respect theirs. Success cases for someone like ziggs or xerath is the total opposite: being far far away, as they chip your health. And nobody is complaining because if yo uget into melee range you beat them. Starve LB, she can't farm, and without kills she falls off and you win.
Snowman Arc7 votesSo what, you played 600 units away from her? So you basically can't even go into AA range? That's a laughable counterpoint.
FridgesArePpl26 votesThat's why they reworked her, but then everyone complained because her burst wasn't fast enough...
Thefrostyviking5 votesAnd people are saying "Omg it was so much better before, game has gotten shitty and unbalanced".
And im just like like "Dude you have clearly not played enough before, LB, Kassawin, release Xin zhao and all their friends are dying on the floor of excessive laughing at ya".
I still remember a time when LB combo at like lvl 3 of something did 60-70% health.
5050BS5 votesIts why she was changed in the first place. Riot seems to have lost its long term memory.
VelvetCrotch5 votesits silly that even with a dash you cant get rid of her fcking retarded chain. i hate her chain more than everything.
Nut on my Butt4 votesExcept she doesn't have her old ratios. They used to be more front loaded, now they're more backloaded onto the second parts of Q and E so she has to commit more to deal damage.
Her E is even actually significantly easier to escape than it was both before and after the rework she just got reverted from.
I'm looking at the game that prompted this thread, and I can see that you neglected to build MR vs LeBlanc, Swain, and Kog/Lulu as Ryze.
Percentages1 votesShe is so easy to play against. Banshees veil, boom. She is an assassin..
T4underbolt3 votesBefore you build banshees you will get killed 5 times.
Percentages1 votesBefore you build banshees you will get killed 5 times.
Well if building an item is too difficult, try a counter pick instead of spamming your favorite champ?