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Shaco Mains: wow our champion was gutted, literally unplayable

ALL MłGHT··26 votes·10,594 views

Also Shaco Mains: https://i.gyazo.com/f38a420d8ecf013f1ffcfad88a8a2002.png

Shaco didn't even have to build a jungle item, he still was able to contest and split push, one shot, and do whatever he pleased. It's just CRAZY how I have to literally torture myself playing Ryze at 300% effort but I wont EVER be able to do as much as other champions. No, I will not play other champions because I think Ryze is very good. I am not the best myself but a fucking Silver 1 Shaco main with 61% win rate OVER 100 GAMES. I have nearly 400 games on Ryze at 46% win rate and I'm Gold 4. And actually, I only climbed into Gold by playing Twisted Fate.

I'm just fucking tired of it man, I'm tired of assassins being good and when they're bad they just split push and farm up and one shot. I'm tired of bruisers being good, they just split push if behind and are able to 1v1 anyone. I'm tired of Kai'sa being good patch after patch. She's nearly played every single FUCKING GAME in LCS. Rageblade nerfs didn't do anything to her or Master Yi.

Everyone complains about tank meta but have you seen a tank split push or one shot squishies? Tank meta enforced team work but this fucking shit we are in now allows people to play League of Legends: RPG game. I can SHIT on my laner but the second I leave my tower to help my team, boom my tower is gone because it's squishy, boom my laner gets ahead in CS, boom they split push until THEY FEEL like fighting. Huge issue with Irelia is she fights when she feels like it. She can engage whenever because her CD are low, she has damage mitigation, healing, conqueror, damage amplification etc. When I play Ryze I literally have to wait for them to use their abilities before going in but with everything being such low CD I can't do shit.

Thanks Riot, you've made Ryze unplayable and undesirable in LCS games. He's not even being picked anymore.

52 Comments

Vyntrius12 votes

The only thing that surprised me is that this guy has a 60 percent win rate in 289 games with his top 2 champs, yet his overall win rate is only 51 percent. I doubt that he is actually trying to climb, he would just stick to Shaco and Warwick if he was. Sticking around in low elo to stomp does not prove that the champion is overpowered.

RocketRelm1 votes

Yeah, this post was super weird and unfocused. It's trying to be a "fuck no-skill assassins" post, and 'also' a "fuck riot for ruining ryze" post. Feels kind of like a blind QQ stream with no center.

ALL MłGHT1 votes

No where in the post did I say "fuck no skill assassins". What I am saying is that assassins have dual purposes in games inherently in the nature of their kits. Zed has his blink ability or whatever to gap close to get to squishy or get away. If he's doing bad, he can just split push and farm up. You can't send one person to deal with Zed since he naturally can deal with 1 person. You have to send 2 or 3 people to deal with him, relieving so much pressure somewhere else on the map.

People wanted solo carrying in the game, they definitely got it. AD assassins can feed but then split push to win, that is the opposite of solo carrying.

Edge of Daybreak6 votes

[deleted]

ALL MłGHT9 votes

Why comment if you didn't even read it? You're just wasting your own time.

Axtrous10 votes

Bro, you havnt even touched rank this entire season and spam aram's with a 45% win rate. Your peak is also gold 1, which is shit. Don't rank shame players if you're not even a high ranked player.

Bhagswag1 votes

I feel for him tho. Aram is more tolerable than the ranked environment xD

KICK OUT AT 25 votes

[deleted]

ALL MłGHT3 votes

Upvote or downvote and comment something actually useful then move on.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Edit: removed by self, no longer necessary and was rudely worded besides.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

The only worthless opinions are those from low elos that don't know what they're talking about or just parrot what they hear from better players. If you want to be taken seriously then you need to take the game seriously and get a serious rank. Nobody can hear you if you're speaking from a landfill.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

"When others do not respect you, your opinions are worthless, because nobody will listen to you."

You seem to believe this, because you argue that people with low rank don't have others' respect and thus aren't worth listening to.

However, there are more ways to gain and lose respect than just having a good rank in a videogame. Your behavior when speaking to others is another way in which you can gain or lose respect.

You acted like a dick, and lost respect. Thereby making your own opinion worthless to anyone who would have read it.

I see that what you said before got deleted, so there's no need for us to continue this discussion. Goodbye.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

It's not about respect it's about game knowledge. Getting out of low elo shows you know how to play the game, thus your thoughts on it can be taken seriously.

Taking opinions from low elo seriously is like a chef from a 5 star restaurant taking cooking advice from a mcdonald's burger flipper.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

respect --> be taken seriously

Treating people like they are inferior is no way to make them care what you think.

Nobody is going to take you seriously if you act like a huge dick to them.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

This was never about me wanting to be taken seriously. I don't care at all what you people think of my opinions, I just care that they're right. Low elo should care to be right too but they don't know what right is. That's the problem with their posts.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

So you weren't trying to make people stop talking by calling them silver?

What exactly were you trying to do then? Pose and act superior and stroke your own ego? Because you certainly won't be teaching anybody anything. Nobody will listen after how you acted.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

To put it simply I just don't think people should have opinions on game balance if they don't know how to play the game optimally.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

  1. Shut others up

  2. Stroke ego / assert superiority

  3. Teach

Pick one.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

If you're asking me to answer why I brought up rank, it's to show that the poster doesn't know what they're talking about and shouldn't be taken seriously. It's kind of shorthand for pointing and laughing which is what you do when you see low elo players complaining about balance.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ah so it was #2.

So my very first statement in this thread was correct. Thanks for proving my point.

KICK OUT AT 21 votes

At no point in the conversation have I done any sort of self-praise. I'm just saying you people shouldn't talk about game balance if you don't know how to play the game. How many times do I need to say that before you understand?

SwiftKitten884 votes

riot cant fix Shaco becuase there is no way to.. he design is flat out horrible..

he is one of the worst designed champs in the game. his entire kit is lore is designed to be toxic.

he does not have a place in league as a multiplayer game.. this game is to have fun... and u cant have fun if the enemy has a champion that is specially designed to enrage you. his it , his lore, his theme, everything about him is to be toxic nightmarish and evil. to tilt and enrage your opponents .

now.. if you were on the balance team.. and u were told to balance THAT.. wtf would u do?

remakoro1 votes

I would change more assassins into the way of Shaco. Shaco, Teemo and somewhat Eve kinda only 3 true assassins that league has. Every other "assassin" is just bursty one pattern animal.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Eve is without a doubt worse than before. Now she might not be permastealthed for 8 minutes of the game but she has point and click hard CC an AOE nuke that ports her back AND makes her untargetable nd pretty much the same if not more burst.

remakoro1 votes

Her "point and click hard cc" required her first to set it up. Which would announce her position to her target + fact of her presence there to everyone else. And then she will have to get up close and personal and actually hit something on target.

Lulu has point and click hard CC. Even has...Yea its hard CC but its very unreliable with tons of room for counterplay.

I also forgot about LB but she is way too bursty for my liking. Considering how safe she is.

But both of them are much better than some fucking Talon or Rengar. Looking at them makes you think that Garen isnt that braindead in his playstyle.

Hemulen Magi3 votes

What is with everyone assuming that Shaco players think he's unplayable? They just want to be able to play AP Shaco again like in the old days. I don't think they even like the focus on 1-shots out of stealth, but that's apparently what the bar is set to for assassins these days. It's bull shit and everyone knows it, but why should Shaco get singled out for hatred? Just because he's annoying? His character is a demon jester who drives his victims insane. Of course he will be annoying.

Infernape3 votes

Probably because a lot of Shaco "mains" tend to moan that he's "unplayable" when Riot change his kit in any way. Whenever Riot do tweak his kit, he's instantly catapulted to high win rates and is then in need of nerfs.

Look at when Riot nerfed Duskblade. The boards were full of shaco players proclaiming that he'd be unplayable and trash. The patch goes out and suddenly Shaco has a 55% win rate and is the must pick or ban jungler in solo queue.

This isn't to say EVERY Shaco player does this. Just the vocal minority on Reddit/boards.

Hemulen Magi4 votes

Shaco players were worried that he was going to be left behind other assassins because Kha'zix was receiving compensation even though he was also top tier and arguably even stronger than Shaco at the time. When the Shaco winrates started to get high afterwards, a lot of Shaco players argued in favor of nerfing Shaco's low counterplay 1-shot potential out of stealth. They just wanted Kha'zix to receive nerfs in kind to keep assassins balanced relative to one another. That seems like a reasonable concern to me.

Great Ozymandius2 votes

For the most part, shaco players are unhappy that they are required to build full ad assassin, and that they need to 1-shot the enemy adc late game to be relevant.

Shaco's winrate is decently good right now, but his tuning reflect how bad game health is in general.

Shaco is not a problem. Extremely high damage across the board is.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

All they want is being able to build whatever they want, oneshot whoever they want and 60%+ winrate on average. Everytime the same: d5 players suddenly becoming challenger because shaco is batshit crazy OP until hegets nerfed and the QQ starts again.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

Instructions unclear, thread title contains Shaco but post appears to be complaining about Ryze.

Meep Man2 votes

You don't know the "Shaco Phenomenon"? It's the strange feeling among his fan base that he is ALWAYS on the edge of being underpowered and every nerf given to him makes him unplayable, despite the fact that almost every time he bounces back and is still viable through some new insane style of play.

Pika Fox3 votes

Thats more of the janna/sona fanbase. The original support nerfs... Dear god the boards went crazy with all the support mains QQ.

Meep Man1 votes

Sona especially as well. Janna a little bit so, but not so much that I found it extremely noticeable myself.

Usernamehere12352 votes

Generally speaking, when discussing the balance of champions and how strong they are, it's useless to discuss the level of play you see at any elo except high diamond through challenger.

A challenger player can have winrates like that on ANY champion in ANY role in silver elo. It's just not worth discussing the balance of champions in low elo because the players in these elos don't understand nearly enough about the game itself; and as a result, they don't have the information necessary in evaluating champion strength.

It's not to say that low elo players can't discuss balance, but it has to be understood that A) personal experience in these elos is worthless, and B) low elo examples (winrates, play rate, etc.) don't matter.

There is perhaps a discussion about champions that tend to steamroll in low elo (the Yi effect), but that is typically a separate issue from balance, and more to do with champion design.

And Ryze is legitimately a fairly strong champion; but as unfortunate as it may be, low elo players don't perform well on him. Whereas champions like Garen work quite well in low elo but fall off heavily in the highest ratings, Ryze is the opposite; he can be an absolute monster in high tier play such as challenger, but falls off heavily in use outside of the top 200 mid players.

I want to reiterate that you can't use your gold level experience on Ryze when discussing balance; you just don't understand enough about the game for that discussion to be useful. Instead, you can discuss the extremely high skill cap of Ryze, and that you'd like to see him dumbed down so that lower elo players can be effective with the champ.

Poske2 votes

And here is is what is wrong with boards

He reached silver with shaco so he is fine bois

KFCeytron1 votes

Ryze is already up for his next rework. Empowered Q will have true damage, W will be a slow that roots when empowered, ult will be stronger but have a 5min CD, and more.

ALL MłGHT7 votes

They scraped the rework.

https://i.redd.it/k1pjk5gf4l611.png

Ayzev1 votes

I'd be looking forward to that new Lissandra passive, but at one point they considered giving her bonus AD scaling with max mana, so I'm instead concerned about how they apparently have no idea what to do.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

item 3042 item 3040 item 3110 item 3025 item 3022 item 3006

LordGeovanni1 votes

it wasnt bonus ad it was an on hit but her autos all did magic damage. But magic damage options in this game are shit and only work out becase mages are suppsoed to be windowed damage but it doesnt work out because mages dont have real down times and is the reason why azir veigar and ryze stay broken

KFCeytron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ALL MłGHT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FnTXYMgf,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-07-01T22:05:04.571+0000)

They scraped the rework.

https://i.redd.it/k1pjk5gf4l611.png

Oh. Just last week, I see.

I was looking forward to using a 5min ult every 50 seconds with PoM. Oh well.

LordGeovanni1 votes

I dont see why rize and can keep his skills identity and builds over multiple reworks but Taric Poppy Sion Aatrox Sejuani get their skills changed so that their most popular builds arent viable for their secondary builds. Sejuani is gonna finally be able to build ap again but its still gonna feel bad because they took away the aoe stun when w is already slow and fixed cast and you have to stack a low range team to use it and sejuani only has 2 seconds of tanky ness after which she wishes she had adc/ mage defensive stats.

Ranmaru1 votes

Shaco is never a problem for me...

TakaDama1 votes

Shaco isn't the problem: any other AD assassin could be used in his place and have the same results. Because Assassin Itemization (which is the problem) is extremely strong with just Stormrazor and Duskblade. Shaco just has an easier time using it thanks to Deceive and Backstab being a basic ability and a passive as opposed to Zed, Talon, and Nocturne having to use their ults.

In fact, I suggest looking at Shaco's playrates and winrates before the introduction of Stormrazor (8.10 or before I believe, could be wrong though). Shaco has been around for a long time, and players wouldnt happen to discover some new playstyle without some external influence.

Danjeng1 votes

OP, stop with the Ryze is so weak posts. I'm a 1 mill ryze main and I can say he's alright. I hate to say this but maybe it's not the champion.

But hey from one Ryze main to another hmu if you want to improve I can give some tips. Or you can just stay on boards complaining. Your choice,

Modl Ryden l1 votes

Perhaps expand your roster of champs to play midlane than just Ryze or TF?

I understand liking to play 1 champion but there are limits and as a main you should know that. There are matchups you know yourself that are very tricky to begin with and you put yourself at the risk of a loss when you put your main champ up for slaughter like that.

Lucian Waifu1 votes

This is why you play ziggs, can hold two lanes at once then go help the third, without ult but that shouldn't be a big problem.

Śhunpo1 votes

He's not fun. Fun > Viability [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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