5.3 is almost here and none of the promised champ changes are on the pbe

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Yes but it would take like 6 years for Riot to do that considering how long they take to rework anything

Just look at the ramifications of removing dfg, a rework of a entire class of champions (much needed) is no simple task.

I like the perceived direction. A metal man should be tanky after-all. Though from the description I can't help but shake the feeling he'll just become a worse version of rumble. Or alternatively become a significantly better version of Rumble. What I'm saying is I don't really want another Rumble running around the rift. So please just be careful with that.

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Current direction with Morde involves:

• Making him tankier (let him survive in a fight longer, align with his thematics)
• Shifting him to more of a sustained damage dealer, less of a burst character (better match with a tanky champ, play up the teamplay on both sides from someone being tagged by his ult, rather than just having someone vanish in a cloud of damage and a Ghost appear).

Is he going to get CC at all? All of that sounds fantastic but I can't help but feel an escapeless pushing maniac without some form of CC is going to be useless

Is there any intention of making him still viable as a AP heavy/mage character with DPS and tankyness sustained by outputting a lot of damage or are you just gonna make him a fighter?

plz no, not a skill shot. pretty plz? his q is already painful enough when you cast it and the minion dies before it connects, or the minion survives with 1 hp. but now you are allowing the enemy to body block his q's as well? (not to mention, some times the lowest health minion isn't always in front, this will make veig have to expose himself far more than necessary to farm q stacks)

the last thing veig needs atm is unreliable dmg.

EDIT: besides, not all of us can play on the west coast, nor do all of us have the best reflexes necessary for champs that are overly reliant on skill shots.

Meddler, please listen to me as I love playing Veigar and from your posts I'm worried he's headed to an awful direction. Veigar doesn't have any counterplay problems, in fact there's a lot of counterplay to him.

1. Magic Resist. Seems obvious, I know, but you'd be surprised how often people either pick up a miniscule amount or none at all vs Veigar, those people tend to cry the most too. MR really screws with Veigar because of reason #2.

2. He can either kill you with a combo, or he has almost no hope of killing you at all. If you're still alive after Veigar QWR's you, congrats, Veigar is a free kill for you at least until he gets another AP item or farms for days.

3. Stun down? Massive cooldown? Yeah. Veigar's a free kill.

4. BUY TENACITY, BANSHEE'S, OR QSS There isn't a single stat that screws over a champion as much as Tenacity or QSS screws over Veigar. It makes him almost useless.

5. Don't be stupid. If Veigar is on the enemy team and is doing well, don't ignore what I've said above. Everyone who whines about Veigar never buys Tenacity or Banshee's against him.

CHAMPIONS THAT RENDER HIM (largely) USELESS: I don't mean lane counters, I mean champions with skills or abilities that seriously mess with his gameplay.

1. Morgana: Her shield will let enemies pass right through your stun, as well as soak up your damage.
2. Garen: This guy does not die. This is the classic Veigar dilemma of "if you can't combo it, you can't kill it".
3. Anyone with a gapcloser. Veigar is a non-mobile mage, this should be self explanatory.
4. Anyone with temporary invulnerability (including Zhonya's). Nice stun, mind if I walk through it as if it were nothing? Oh was that your ult, sorry it missed me.
5. Anybody who's smart enough to not let Veigar farm in the beginning will render his whole game obsolete.

In short, Veigar has more counterplay than a lot of other champions and weakening him further would throw him into trash-tier. He's an immobile mage to boot.

If these changes do go through, I really hope he gains some extra mobility like Ahri did or lower cooldowns / Mana costs otherwise he's going to drop even further out of the meta.

I believe he was referring to things like Oranges (W) and Ult (breaks CC upon use) His ult... And I suppose She can save her soulbound with her ult if they get stunned

And about his ult... and what if he's enemy is AD? Like Zed? Jayce or Yasuo?

You can get through Event Horizon with things like Rift Walk (R) and Flash and if Veigar have E on cooldown he has no way to defend himself or land his W other then blowing up his target preferably before he is killed himself

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When people say he has no counterplay, they mean his extremely powerful, targeted nukes. Event Horizon + Dark Matter is fine where it is. Dark Matter has such a long cast time, that people need to be stunned in order to land it. The problem is that Event Horizon isn't tied to Dark Matter. He can stun people in a huge AoE for 2 1/2 seconds, walk up, erase them with his Q + extremely broken ult.

Nobody will see this post unfortunately cause it's so deep in this mess of a board's layout, except for perhaps you, the person I'm quoting cause it will notify you, and since I completely disagree with you, you'll hate what I have to say and downvote me, but it's worth saying.

"No counterplay" and "extremely powerful" are not synonyms and Riot and players who think like this need to learn this. Veigar on the enemy team? Guess the support should build a or maybe the AP champs need to pick up a or a .

This isn't aimed at anyone personally, but I'm tired of people QQing because they can only counter a champ at the cost of their beloved full build, braindead, exact same, 6 damage items only. Building defensive items to adjust to your opponent's team comp is the definition of "counterplay." The fact that people think champions can't ever build more than one way is cancerous and needs to be beaten out of them.

Oh and by the way, if you're playing in ranked or normal draft, for one nobody's ever gonna pick Veigar, but on the off chance they do, and he's not last picked, Morgana completely counters him just by existing, and she also happens to be amazing as a support, so she, unlike Veigar, is a versatile and good pick your team won't hate you for.

Secondly I have to address this quote "The problem is that Event Horizon isn't tied to Dark Matter. He can stun people in a huge AoE for 2 1/2 seconds, walk up, erase them with his Q + extremely broken ult."

This is not a problem, this is Veigar's identity. I'm dead serious. THIS. IS. VEIGAR'S. IDENTITY. This is literally how and why any and all Veigar players play him. Being able to completely destroy someone cause he stunned them is what he does. Being able to always be a threat to the enemy AP champs even if he's way behind or being played as a support is a key component to his appeal. When Riot changes this (which they will) Veigar will be forever alone tier with Urgot, and it will just be more proof that the current balance team doesn't know shit about why people play certain champions. If they reduce or remove his stun, or his ult they'd be better off just taking him behind the shed and putting him out of his misery cause nobody will play him again.

PS. I'm already calling bullshit on the incoming reasons for incoming Veigar nerfs that Riot will inevitably say about Veigar "lacking meaningful tradeoffs." Veigar's meaningful tradeoffs right now are that he's so squishy, immobile, and short range that in order to matter at all he has to meaningfully get in range to land his combo before HE gets deleted, it's harder than it sounds, and any smart team will know this and prioritize killing him first, trust me, as someone who plays Veigar, he's not hard to kill. Having to be in a very specific and good position to be able to succeed is a very meaningful tradeoff, in fact it's so meaningful, it's probably the only reason Veigar isn't played constantly and isn't truly OP. Being so hyper-mobile that you don't ever have to worry about positioning like tons of champions in this game are (including most of the newer ones) however is the least meaningful tradeoff of all, and it's insane to me that the balance team doesn't realize this. But oh wait, Veigar's stun wrecks mobile champs so that shit's got to go...

yeah, but karth was really the only one that could afford to build them. most other mages needed the benefits from other items. Karth had his passive to allow him to explode and still output amazing dps