New tank items have been requested a lot of times. The most common reasining to not introduce such an item is simple: Bruisers might abuse it.
So, I wonder - what if penalties were a thing: E.g. An item with grants 1000 health, but reduces attack damage by 50? (Or attack speed, or critical strike chance....Or even AP )
Sure, there are AP and AD bruisers, but neither Gragas nor Elise, nor Eve seem to be in a state right now to become problematic.
DoFr7 votesthe only thing that's legit is to bring back the % Bonus health back, that's something NO ONE can abuse except tanks
Tower dive whatever the hell i want
What Is Smite1 votesJax, Irelia, J4, Lee Sin, Gnar and Olaf can abuse the hell out of something like that if it was not a jungle specific item. I put Olaf up there because he does fit the idea of being a bruiser and tank but im not too sure which better suites him, I guess it's down to player preference on the builds they use for him.
TheKingDodo4 votesthought this was a sunfire thread. getting aggroed 24/7 is not cool.
Turns out you want to nerf tanks to oblivion... 
ok
Kowe The Ewok1 votesRammus was one of my favorite junglers last season. I wouldn't want him to be nerfed. Riot already gutted him btw.
While he is more AD reliant than other junglers you ignore the 2nd part of my post, suggesting attack speed or critical strikes to be hit.
There sure is a way to make these items work. And don't forget not each item has to work for any champion.
I never suggested replacing old items (you're acting like i was). I'm just suggesting a design for new tank items, allowing them to be stronger without the risk of getting abused by bruisers. Ofc they won#t work on any tank equally well ;)
JJI7443 votesI think items like that would be rather hard to balance.
Take your example, toss it onto a Mundo. Yes he loses 50 AD, but Cleavers deal %HP damage anyway.
Kowe The Ewok2 votesNot to mention taht your E becomes absolutely pointless if you decide to scrap your auto attack damage.
JChaosMaster2 votesI think what would give better then +/- are more items like in the "Wicked Hatchet" in Twisted Tree. Because When fully built it basicly becomes are IF but as the Wicked hatchet it has UNIQUE "Passive: Critical Strikes cause your target to bleed for an additional 60% of your bonus Attack Damage as physical damage over 3 seconds."
A few more item's like this would Help some players from just straight Rushing a single item. Sheen is a good example where I would rush Sheen itself on my way to trinity but if I need to build something to counter my enemy like Hexdrinker to protect me if I get stuck again a ap heavy or a Split ratio champ. Like Ezreal or Katarina. Sheen can do enough damage until I can get trinity or Lich. In wicked Hatched's case you lose the passive at the end build.
Having more items like this would give more game changing effect while a more Semi stable/predictable endgame.
OblongOtter2 votesWhat if it would reduce a percentage of damage as opposed to flat? Since an AD reduction of 50 would reduce 
's AD from 100 to 50, taking away half. Meanwhile 
buys it and has her AD reduced from 350 to 300, losing less than 9% of her AD.
Kowe The Ewok2 votesThat's also a valid option.
The suggestion in the start post was by no means final, just a general direction/expression of what i think.
:)
CoolKnightST1 votes1000 health, but reduces attack damage by 50
That would be really strong on early bruisers. Take 
for example. That it will basicly counter a full 
. It would change bruisers in supertanks while doing nothing for full tanks.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesEspecially early it would extremely hurt bruisers. A Xin with 60 instead of 110 AD is MUCH less of a threat.
Not to mention that the above item is of 3000k+ gold quality (Warmogs for comparison)
I wanna see how dangerous a Xin is who invests his first 3000 gold into an item that more than halves his attack damage...
CoolKnightST1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XJtcQWeX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-01T14:38:18.576+0000)
Especially early it would extremely hurt bruisers. A Xin with 60 instead of 110 AD is MUCH less of a threat.
Not to mention that the above item is of 3000k+ gold quality (Warmogs for comparison)
I wanna see how dangerous a Xin is who invests his first 3000 gold into an item that more than halves his attack damage...
He will maintain his early core: 
The thing is that he will now build that into that item what would increase her midgame power. But that's still alright.
Than whe see it on a real bully take 
.
balbraaksel1 votesI wouldn't be so much for -50 AD because some champions can exploit that. I'd rather see a 20 minutes scaling time like Rod of Ages or something like that. for example:
Price: 2000 gold. Stats: 500 health + 30 bonus health/minute for the next 20 minutes.
Percent health damage is more a problem though for tanks, I'd rather have a decent shielding item that's a niche pick only to counter percent health damage. Currently there's almost no counter to percent health damage with penetration.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesThat doesn't stop bruisers from abusing it.
Just compare: RoA is purchased on mages as well as Ap tanks.
CoolKnightST2 votes[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XJtcQWeX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-01T14:49:16.168+0000)
That doesn't stop bruisers from abusing it.
Just compare: RoA is purchased on mages as well as Ap tanks.
What if whe give a scaling item that only provide defensive scaling stats:
That would give it 60 ad damage reduction after 25 minutes.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesSomething like that could work, good suggestion :)
balbraaksel1 votesI don't really see that as a bad thing tbh that Rod of Ages is bought by both mages as AP tanks. That's because it's not cost effective at the moment you buy it, it's an investment with it's drawbacks. So I wouldn't particularly mind if a scaling item that's not cost effective but an investment for tanks is implemented into the game, if bruisers want to buy it, it should be fine as long as the item's balanced.
So instead of negative stats (which I doubt that Riot would ever consider, otherwise there likely would've been runes with combined negative and positive stats already) I'd rather see items being an investment (cost inefficient) for later on (becoming cost efficient) and balanced around that.
EDIT: How about an item that gives (maximum health / 100) % of your maximum health as a shield as an active for 15 seconds with 40 magic resist and 40 armor? :) Indirectly it has a negative stat to it for bruisers. It'd also be a counter to percent health damage and Guardian Angel would usually be better unless you play against a team with 2 BotRK's and one with Liandry's Torment.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesI never said that it was a bad thing. However, bruisers and bulk are a different storny.
They snowball much harder than mages to if they get efficient bulk. We've lived throught that horror in S1 & S2.
balbraaksel1 votesAh right, I haven't, I wish I had. I also made an edit to the reply you replied to, let me know what you think if you want. :)
Kowe The Ewok1 votes% health item are a completely different approach and should be discussed seperatle. (As a matter of fact I made a topci about it a while back with quite a lot upvotes here sadly it got ignored by Riot)
BastionKross1 votesPerhaps a percentage loss of AD/AP instead of a flat reduction. At -30% AD, a tank might lose about 30 AD and a bruiser might lose as much as 60-70 with the same item. Of course, bruisers that don't value AD or AP as highly would abuse the item, so a reduction to attack speed may be needed as well.
Rozzeta1 votesThis was suggested to Xipherous back when he remade a lot of items in Season 3 start. Does someone remember the reason why he rejected the idea?
Kowe The Ewok1 votesIf I recall it correctly it was simply because at that point of time they considered the concept of negative stats as "unfun".
(However, we've seen them break with a lot of their former statements)
balbraaksel1 votesWouldn't it be a better idea to have runes with a combination of both positive and a negative stats on them? I think that would be more interesting than have negative stats on items because it could possibly allow players to choose between a wider variety of items than they can now.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesRunes have too few of an impact compared to an item purchase. Not to mention that jungling is plain impossible without special rune setups, which would make the whoel thing useless for jungle tanks.
SecretAgentHulk1 votesRunes are not the place to do that.
DeusVult1 votesI'm not a big fan of reductions on items, you should never be penalized for building an item, or else things like IE and Deathcap would reduce health by 200.
but % increase of Armor Mr or Health is something that only a tank can abuse, so it makes sense for them