The proper ways to play a Tank (Long Post)

HateDaddy··46 votes·5,197 views

One of the controversial topics of discussion as of late on this board has been that tanks are currently underpowered and die too quickly, and as a result they are unable to perform their jobs adequately. If you recognize me or my name seems familiar, it's because I've been very vocal about how wrong I think this line of thinking is. I think tanks are great right now and pretty damn balanced. I've bickered back and forth about numbers, champions and the whole 9 yards.

It occurred to me though; I actually think most people play tanks incorrectly. Not just a knock on these boards but even when I play, it's amazing how people play tanks so poorly. Despite their simplistic mechanics and being the easiest champions to play in that regard, there's actually a lot of game understanding and reactive based decisions you have to make when playing tanks. Sure, when they're overpowered, like anything else you just zerg the backline and kill carries. But when they're balanced, there's actually a lot of gameplay in terms of playing tanks well and being impactful with them. I'll break this down as best as I can in 3 categories. I want to help educate people, I play fighters and tanks and I have a lot of success with tanks still so I feel like this will be helpful.

•Zone Control

This is arguably a tanks most important job but understanding what it is and how to do it is significantly more difficult than people realize. As a tank, you control zones not only by your CC but more importantly, the threat of your cc. The most important thing here is knowing when to apply that cc and when not to, whether it's to initiate a fight or to stay in range of initiation to keep up the threat so the enemy is forced to respect it. This is the biggest thing, it's the threat to apply your cc. You're not zone controling because you're a threat to solo kill someone, though in some instances you could be. You're zone controlling to either keep a desire target/group of desired target in a location that keeps them from engaging on priority allies (typically your carries) or you're zone controlling to force an enemy priority target out of the fight (usually the enemy carries).

The second option there is a tricky one, keeping the carries out of fights. One of the biggest mistakes I see tanks make is going ham on them, getting kited out and dying because they end up getting focused by both carries. This is where a lot of frustration comes from tank players because they feel they should be able to survive this but the simple truth is you shouldn't. This is going to far for your team to follow up and you're not controlling a zone by going ham like this. You're giving them an easy target to kite/peel and ultimately kill while doing nothing and likely wasting resources.

"But hatedaddy, if they can just kill you, why would they fear going near you when you attempt to zone control by staying close enough in range to disrupt them?" Good question. It's because when you go on them, you're typically way too far ahead of your team to follow up and you've put the burden on yourself to kill them while all they simply have to do is kite you. By not going ham, if they go on you or chase you, this is putting themselves out of position and in a spot to be engaged on and disrupted and killed. They know this, which is why they respect that range of area and allow you to zone them. A good example of this being done correctly is Vi ulting on an ADC through an enemy team and simply being killed before her team follow up.

This is offset by their enemy tank/bruiser doing the same thing and often it then comes down to who has the better team for either safely going on the backline with the help of other allies (think Sivir ult or Annie flash tibbers) or a really aggressive siege comp that constantly forces you back. It's important to know your teams strengths and how you can put yourself in position to excel at its best given its team comp. but this is a good summary of what zone control is, why it's important, what you're looking to do when you're attempting to zone control and understanding how to offset it when facing it.

•Understanding the importance of peeling vs engaging

Sometimes your comp might have heavy engage. Sometimes it might have better peeling elements to it and it's important to consider when you should be peeling. Like zone control, engaging and peeling are two important elements of playing tanks but understanding when to do it and how to do both isn't easy. Sometimes you have have lots of engage but no reliable way to help your backline once you've engaged. A common combination of champions I see this with are vi/Malphite being on the same team. They ult onto one target and most likely kill it but because they go so hard, the rest of the enemy team ignores them and simply kills the rest of their team. It's important in this scenario to consider maybe using Vi or Malph ult to peel and while the other is being the form of engage.

Knowing when to start a fight is hard but tell your team if you've got the means to ininiate a fight while your team can fend for itself to be ready because when you say an opening, you're taking it. Spam pings and let them know and usually they follow up. But protecting your carries is equally important and knowing when to peel for them. honestly 80% of the time you should be peeling for your carries once a fight has really broken out; but often times, you might start a fight on the front line applying zone control pressure and then once a fight gets going, you'll want to immediately retreat to protect your carries.

•Alright, gloves are off, everything is on cooldown, time to damage soak.

This is usually the last phase of teamfighting and its when you really start soaking up damage. When I say damage soak, I don't mean zerging into the enemy team 1v5 and expecting to live forever because nobody will live very long when being 5 man focused. It wouldn't be balanced if any champion could do that consistently. But I digress..

Damage soaking is another important element to being a tank but it's important to know when to start soaking up damage. Utility is a resource, damage is a resource and like it or not, as a tank, ultimately your health bar (and in many cases your life) is a resource. Like your cc, like your damage, you want maximize the potential of your ability to soak as best as possible. But before soaking damage up, you want to make sure that you've used everything to the best of your ability. You want to make sure you got everything out of zone controlling, you want to make sure you got everything you could out of peeling/engaging because this will often dictate how well you can damage soak because it could've forced the enemy to use key cooldowns to distrupt your zone control or engage and once a fight has really begun and the shit hits the fan and you got no cooldowns, sometimes you just brainlessly run at champions and force them to damage you so they aren't damaging your carries. Sometimes it's just standing in front of your carries to block projectiles, but the important thing to note is when you're damage soaking, it's always to use your hp bar as best as possible to help your team win a fight.


I want to make this know right off the bat: what I just went over are generalizations. There are exceptions to every rule. Sometimes it won't matter how hard you try to peel, their team might just have so much dive that your carry is going to die no matter what in full 5v5s. At that point you need to decide if 5v5ing is right for your team. Looking for picks and prioritizing picks is probably your best bet. Split pushing could also be an option and sometimes it might just be saying "ok you're gonna kill our carry, well we will kill yours too" and proceed to wet noodle for the next 30 seconds after you've exchanged the deaths of your carries.

My goal here is to get the proper line of thinking to play a tank to its full potential. Because the truth is, if done properly, a tank is never bad to have because there's far more to a tanks job than simply living for a long time. It's like wave clear, it's never bad to have but you have to know how to properly utilize it. A lot of it is grunt work and it will usually be a thankless job, but this is the role you elected to play and you need to understand that's part of the gig. You usually don't just straight up carry games by killing everything, you'll be doing a lot of grunt work. But at the end of the day, when you play this role properly, you'll win more games than you lose. And ultimately, I don't give a damn about recognition by strangers on the Internet, I care more about winning. I hope you care, too.

sorry for the long essay here but I think this can really clear up a lot of misconceptions that "tanks are bad" because tanks are never truly bad. Thanks for the read and hope you enjoyed it.

92 Comments

PermabannedGaren31 votes

Dude, if I can't jump into the enemy team and lock them all down while also solo killing their carry, then tbh imo fam tanks are shit.

Also, I should be literally immune to AD damage by virtue of building armour on Malphite. It should take at bare minimum twenty seconds of 1v5 focus fire for an all-AD team to kill me. Otherwise, why pick Malphite when I could just play Graves?

HateDaddy18 votes

{quoted}

Dude, if I can't jump into the enemy team and lock them all down while also solo killing their carry, then tbh imo fam tanks are shit.

Also, I should be literally immune to AD damage by virtue of building armour on Malphite. It should take at bare minimum twenty seconds of 1v5 focus fire for an all-AD team to kill me. Otherwise, why pick Malphite when I could just play Graves?

I couldn't agree more, buff Nasus

PermabannedGaren6 votes

{quoted}

I couldn't agree more, buff Nasus

You know it's funny, the Malphite into all AD part is barely an exaggeration if you stomped lane enough and they don't have a Vayne on their team. A snowballing Malphite is incredibly oppressive for an all AD comp.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

You know it's funny, the Malphite into all AD part is barely an exaggeration if you stomped lane enough and they don't have a Vayne on their team. A snowballing Malphite is incredibly oppressive for an all AD comp.

Even then, if it gets to late game, a 6 item malphite is still almost impossible to kill vs full ad teams

ProfDrDeath7 votes

If he has a good mixture of Armor and HP.

Many beginners make the mistake of only barely building any HP and then wonder why they still get taken down so fast.

item 3075 item 3025 item 3110 item 3047 item 3068 item 3143 only has 1k bonus HP.

Better use something like this:

item 3025 oritem 3110 , item 3143 , item 3083 ,item 3075 ,item 3068 ,item 3047 .

Requiemsfire1 votes

Of they have a Vayne, you know who you're ult prioritizing ;)

Jalkan10 votes

I just Amumu Q in and press R for an insta-win.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

I just Amumu Q in and press R for an insta-win.

if you don't play full AP amumu, I dont respect you

Jalkan2 votes

"do t"? do or don't?

EDIT: k.

HateDaddy7 votes

I think the tank circle jerk hates me and just downvotes me anytime I make a post lol

"You don't cater to our mindless, senseless QQ!!! wtf I die in 6 seconds tanks suck!!"

Bro I play tanks lol. They don't suck. They're never really going to "suck." Try getting good.

THE RlVER KlNG5 votes

No, it's more like you're an aggressive dick to tank players. Your tone is consistently very angry and derisive. You're one to talk about a tank circle jerk when you ride the ADC fanboys who still think tanks are OP after a season of Riot waiting on them hand and foot. It's less about two communities having a different opinion at this point than your need to be right and shove your opinion around whilst telling people to git gud.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEtUAVyH,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-08-20T22:30:37.611+0000)

No, it's more like you're an aggressive dick to tank players. Your tone is consistently very angry and derisive. You're one to talk about a tank circle jerk when you ride the ADC fanboys who still think tanks are OP after a season of Riot waiting on them hand and foot. It's less about two communities having a different opinion at this point than your need to be right and shove your opinion around whilst telling people to git gud.

I don't ride any circle jerk, the tank circle jerk and the Mage circle jerk are two of the most delusional player bases. They want their champions to be good at doing everything and they think they're always bad. I think ADCs are broken but riot has elected to let them be their main class, which is how they're balanced as well. You can hate it but that's the way it is.

And maybe I am a jerk about it but I'm tired of these ridiculous examples of people saying they're playing tanks and dying instantly when I know it's not true at all because I play tanks and I have no issues with any of this. And please, don't pretend that as of 5 patches ago, tanks weren't building sunfire/SV/IBG and solo killing everything while being impossible to kill.

Sorry I'm not sorry

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

Doesn't matter if you're tired of people having a different opinion; it doesn't give you license to consistently harass and deride them.

Going around and putting exaggerations into people's mouths is not how you have a rational discussion about game health and state, and immediately invalidates your chance to have it. Maybe the reason people are downvoting you or whatever is because you make incorrect assumptions to further your own over-aggressive campaign.

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEtUAVyH,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-21T00:58:23.721+0000)

Doesn't matter if you're tired of people having a different opinion; it doesn't give you license to consistently harass and deride them.

I'm not harassing anyone lol

I'm harassing you because I think you're wrong?

Going around and putting exaggerations into people's mouths is not how you have a rational discussion about game health and state, and immediately invalidates your chance to have it. Maybe the reason people are downvoting you or whatever is because you make incorrect assumptions to further your own over-aggressive campaign.

I don't exaggerate anything, I discuss things - you just can't take being told you're wrong.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

I think you're the one who can't take being told you're wrong. You consistently throw a fit and accuse tank players of whiny QQ'ing by insulting and demeaning the playerbase. That's not how you approach an argument.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XEtUAVyH,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-21T12:38:48.673+0000)

I think you're the one who can't take being told you're wrong. You consistently throw a fit and accuse tank players of whiny QQ'ing by insulting and demeaning the playerbase. That's not how you approach an argument.

Where am I insulting and demeaning the player base? I am not insulting anyone.

Do you know how many times I get told by bronze/silver players on this board to learn to play, get good etc. because I simply disagree with them? Tanks aren't super weak, I'm sorry.

I'm more than open to discuss tank balance, a good friend of mine convinced me that tanks are fine but they are in a weird state this season where they're getting picked for damage over durability. That's not because tanks are bad but because the meta and the way the game is played now requires lots of damage. That's a valid point and we discussed it for almost two hours.

What isn't valid is "OMG I died in 2 seconds as a 600 armor malphite!!" No, no you didn't. These outrageous claims that are either results of terrible builds or terrible play are the problems and I'm sorry it bothers you I'm not going to cater to that ridiculous hivemind.

I can be told I'm wrong and have no issues with it but it needs to be based on reasonable claims. Otherwise I'll call you on your bullshit. That's not harassing, that's not demeaning and that's not belittling because I don't do that.

YCitizenSnipsY2 votes

I still don't get how you of all people complain about downvotes all the time. Its basically a my feelings got hurt button on your topics.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

I still don't get how you of all people complain about downvotes all the time. Its basically a my feelings got hurt button on your topics.

Who said I'm complaining? I can't point it out? I find it funny. I'm used to getting downvoted anyway.

YCitizenSnipsY1 votes

You just seem to point it out a lot.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

You just seem to point it out a lot.

I do it as a joke most of the time tbh

DunkinNoobs5 votes

People suck at playing tanks, what else is new? I die a little inside every time I see a Braum try to dive the enemy carries in a teamfight.

Melledoneus5 votes

I think a bigger problem is that tanks aren't underpowered, but damage has been incrementally increased to the point where going full tank doesn't seem to be as effective as it used to be.

Troll for Trump4 votes

Do those things, tanks are just wayyyyy weaker than they should be. Tanks needn't be as strong as the Cinderhulk meta, but as of now, tanks do a poorer job at tanking than juggernauts and even squishies building tanky. It shouldnt be like that. Exceptions to that are situational tanks, like Malph or Rammus, who tank better in specific games, but in general, tanks are weak.

HateDaddy8 votes

{quoted}

Do those things, tanks are just wayyyyy weaker than they should be. Tanks needn't be as strong as the Cinderhulk meta, but as of now, tanks do a poorer job at tanking than juggernauts and even squishies building tanky. It shouldnt be like that. Exceptions to that are situational tanks, like Malph or Rammus, who tank better in specific games, but in general, tanks are weak.

This simply isn't true.

HateDaddy6 votes

Better yet, who isn't "tanking" as well as they're supposed to? Because I play Malphite, Maokai and Alistar and I do very well on them and can tank for long durations.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Those champs have %dmg reduc, and Malph/Rammus are situational. Champs who don't tank well are Naut, any offmeta build tanks, bltz, Taric, J4, Mundo, Hec, Olaf, Tahm, Sion, Zac.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

Those champs have %dmg reduc, and Malph/Rammus are situational. Champs who don't tank well are Naut, any offmeta build tanks, bltz, Taric, J4, Mundo, Hec, Olaf, Tahm, Sion, Zac.

Maokais reduction only works vs aoe spells, which means he's not good at tanking ADCs with his ult. He gets most of his tanking from his passive, he heals for a fuck ton in teamfights.

Nautilus literally was the best top laner 5 patches ago. And his ability to tank has not been hurt in any meaningful way. His W shield scales with his max HP, and it's not uncommon for nautilus to get around 4K hp, which gives him a 680hp. This is pretty big. Not to mention, nautilus is the most disruptive tank in the game and his ability to constantly cc targets helps his durability. He has no issues with tanking, I'm sorry.

J4, Olaf and Hecarim aren't tanks. They are fighters and they are not designed to tank as long. And Hecarim just got nerfed, he's still one of the best junglers. J4 has had his base stats killed but with good reason, he's one of the most oppressive junglers when he's good. And Olaf was killed in 3.12. Never forget.

Supports being good tanks is a weird deal but I think Tarica utility makes up for this. Tahm and Mundo are the best damage soaking tanks in the game, their issues aren't really damage soaking. Tahm is basically a lane bully champion and outside of lane phase is just a walking cock block that doesn't do much else. I don't see tahm ever having much impact outside of lane phase, he's way too easy to kite.

im surprised we don't see more mundo actually, I haven't really perceived him as weak this entire season. Then again, mundo is more of a damage tank and has a hard time with kite champs like Ashe and Jhin, not to mention Janna is in every game. So maybe not, but you could sneeze twice and mundo could easily be meta again. Not to mention, aside from earlier this season when he was straight up broken, he's never had a high winrate in solo queue.

Zac is the best tank jungler in the game right now not named Gragas/Rek'Sai. He's also not having issues.

I haven't seen a Sion in ages but stats suggest he's actually doing well for his mains. He's also pretty damn hard to kill with his spammable hp scaling shield.

I have my doubts about this list. I still see nautilus from game to game and he does well. And once again, if you're playing tanks correctly, especially these true tanks, then you shouldn't be having these issues with "dying too fast." And half the champions you listed aren't tanks, they're divers. Now, are diving bruisers too weak? I think that's entirely possible, yes. Hecarim is probably the only good one atm.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Nautilus: 5 patches ago was 5 patches ago. Only now is he getting rebuffed. What happened to Naut jgl? They just kept nerfing him due to laning power, they gutted jgl. The problem is Naut doesn't do anything anymore. Where do you play him? No matter where, he's going too be destroyed before he gets to 2 core items. He can tank Lategame, as he can use his cc then, but he can't do anything at all early/mid. Just a sitting duck. By the time you have 4khp, the game will have been decided.

Those 3 should be tanks. J4 should not be going full glass cannon AD assassin, he should be vanguarding. Probably more base dmg, but definatly tone down on the AD scaling. Olaf has to tank because they gutted his dmg, and he has to go balls deep. The only viable Olaf is tank, and Olaf does a poor job as a tank. Hec is being played as a roamer burster as opposed to tanky as he should be, like how J4 is building. He's a initiator tank, but you can't go tank on him anymore. You have to get Triforce rush.

Cinderhulk is still in a pretty bad state. It should be buffed so it's more appeasing. Not.a major buff, but a small one, to try to get some tank jglers into the mix instead of a bunch of carry junglers. Cho, Mao, and Naut returning to the jgl, for example.

I want to say Taric's utility makes up for everything, but it doesn't. His heal and W are really irrelevant. He encourages really high hp and armor, while getting MR, AND support items, while only having a support players income. His ultimate seemed cool, but that was when it was new. Now, not so much.( Maybe Riot wanted Taric to ult BEFORE a teamfight. But he can't really peel with the delay on his ult in the way Kayle can save carries). His E is nice.

Tahm and Mundo are too easy to kite, which is their problem. They can't deal with mobility creep, and teamfighting is a bit lackluster. They trade this for a much more oppressive leaning phase, but that is not a perceive befitting of a tank. Those 2 are walking wads of hp. Tahm only has hard CC with his W which is also his burst and probably largest contribution to the fight. However, as a tank, you should be using it to peel for the ADC. This turns Tahm into a punching bag who had no impact. I feel tanks shouldn't ne 1v1 based( leaning phase/Earlygame based) but work with the team. Mundo is a sack of hp. He could at least bring damage to the table, buthe doesn't( They tried by buffing his E). Mundo has a bad identity. He does no dmg but has a lot of effective HP. Since Tahm and Mundo are dmg sponges, who don't build for dmg, I count them as tanks.

Remain and Gragas are really good at higher elo( competitive). Gragas is especially great but not super OP. Rek'sai is now kind of a mess. Based on her ki, she shouldn't be a tank(like Olaf). But both she and Olaf have been forced to be tanks now, so I count them as such. You're right about Zac; He's just unpopular. I feel he needs a base damage boost. He has CC, but it isn't CC for peeling, it's for initiation. So, he should get base dmg buffs to strengthen his initiation lategame, since he can't peel for the ADC who (usually) gets killed in the blink of an eye lategame.

Sion is supposed to be an initiator but he has to much counterplay. He has great initiation and CC, but Riot tailored too much counterplay into it when they made him. I don't like how people max his E. He divides the enemy team right now, which is cool. Maybe they could focus on a gimmick around splitting up the enemy team, but his CC is impossible to land(Q in bush exempted).

Also RIP Mundo and Sion jgl

I don't see Nautilus doing well in my games. Naut doesn't have an issue dying Lategame; he just doesn't really have a good easy of surviving until Lategame. Cho , for example, has his passive.

Some divers end up being more assassin like in nature. These I classify as divers; Like Noc, Yi, or XZ. When the divers are more initiating, AoE, and go on the more tanky path, I classify them as tanks. J4 was a really close call, but if the "assassin diver" J4 is the glass cannon J4, that is not the J4 I want to be referenced as for future instances.

On a side note, Aatrox is also like a tank diver... (drain tank)

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

Nautilus: 5 patches ago was 5 patches ago. Only now is he getting rebuffed. What happened to Naut jgl? They just kept nerfing him due to laning power, they gutted jgl. The problem is Naut doesn't do anything anymore. Where do you play him? No matter where, he's going too be destroyed before he gets to 2 core items. He can tank Lategame, as he can use his cc then, but he can't do anything at all early/mid. Just a sitting duck. By the time you have 4khp, the game will have been decided.

He's not being buffed because he's suddenly bad, Riot has said they went too hard on his damage (which I completely disagree with by the way, his damage output for how tanky he gets is absolutely disgusting) and want to transition this loss in damage to more disruption. He's the most disruptive tank in the game, riot buffing him is a huge mistake. And they've also said they're trying to buff up a little bit of everything to increase diversity at worlds. Nautilus is not worthless and with the E changes awhile back, his jungle clear has improved. And his ganks are among the best. He's hardly worthless and he will probably be picked in playoffs/worlds a ton.

Those 3 should be tanks. J4 should not be going full glass cannon AD assassin, he should be vanguarding. Probably more base dmg, but definatly tone down on the AD scaling. Olaf has to tank because they gutted his dmg, and he has to go balls deep. The only viable Olaf is tank, and Olaf does a poor job as a tank. Hec is being played as a roamer burster as opposed to tanky as he should be, like how J4 is building. He's a initiator tank, but you can't go tank on him anymore. You have to get Triforce rush.

No they should not be, absolutely not. I don't know what the hell this vanguarding bullshit is, but no. Jarvan is a fighter, he dives and can disrupt. He should not have his tankiness buffed up. And Olaf is a fighter as well and he will never be a good solo queue pick. But he's always a threat to be a good competitive pick, especially when champions like Lulu and Orianna exist and you can build Olaf comps. Hecarim can be played as a burster but he's still played mostly as a tanky bruiser. And he still gets banned. He's fine.

Cinderhulk is still in a pretty bad state. It should be buffed so it's more appeasing. Not.a major buff, but a small one, to try to get some tank jglers into the mix instead of a bunch of carry junglers. Cho, Mao, and Naut returning to the jgl, for example.

lmao what? The best junglers in the game right now are all building cinderhulk. Rek, Grag, Hecarim and Zac all have highest winrates when they build it. And honestly, Maokai jungle was kind of killed with his rework when they nerfed the range on his twisted advance. I still do it with some success but only when I'm forced to jungle and we need a really big beefy tank. Cho sucks, Cho is not going to really ever be good. He's too easy to outplay. And I think Naut jungle is fine.

I want to say Taric's utility makes up for everything, but it doesn't. His heal and W are really irrelevant. He encourages really high hp and armor, while getting MR, AND support items, while only having a support players income. His ultimate seemed cool, but that was when it was new. Now, not so much.( Maybe Riot wanted Taric to ult BEFORE a teamfight. But he can't really peel with the delay on his ult in the way Kayle can save carries). His E is nice.

Taric could need buffs, I'm not sure. I won't speak much to him because I don't play him anymore and I don't ever see him. But support tanks are generally pretty good at the moment. Braum, Ali and Leona are good examples.

Tahm and Mundo are too easy to kite, which is their problem. They can't deal with mobility creep, and teamfighting is a bit lackluster. They trade this for a much more oppressive leaning phase, but that is not a perceive befitting of a tank. Those 2 are walking wads of hp. Tahm only has hard CC with his W which is also his burst and probably largest contribution to the fight. However, as a tank, you should be using it to peel for the ADC. This turns Tahm into a punching bag who had no impact. I feel tanks shouldn't ne 1v1 based( leaning phase/Earlygame based) but work with the team. Mundo is a sack of hp. He could at least bring damage to the table, buthe doesn't( They tried by buffing his E). Mundo has a bad identity. He does no dmg but has a lot of effective HP. Since Tahm and Mundo are dmg sponges, who don't build for dmg, I count them as tanks.

What? lmao mundo does a FUCK TON of damage, are you nuts?

Remain and Gragas are really good at higher elo( competitive). Gragas is especially great but not super OP. Rek'sai is now kind of a mess. Based on her ki, she shouldn't be a tank(like Olaf). But both she and Olaf have been forced to be tanks now, so I count them as such. You're right about Zac; He's just unpopular. I feel he needs a base damage boost. He has CC, but it isn't CC for peeling, it's for initiation. So, he should get base dmg buffs to strengthen his initiation lategame, since he can't peel for the ADC who (usually) gets killed in the blink of an eye lategame.

Gragas is fucking broken. Rek is also extremely powerful. I don't understand, you want Olaf to be a tank but you're saying he's forced to be a tank in this paragraph as if this shouldn't be his identity? Which one is it?

Sion is supposed to be an initiator but he has to much counterplay. He has great initiation and CC, but Riot tailored too much counterplay into it when they made him. I don't like how people max his E. He divides the enemy team right now, which is cool. Maybe they could focus on a gimmick around splitting up the enemy team, but his CC is impossible to land(Q in bush exempted).

Nah, Sion is great man. I think he's the best designed champion in the game. Like Mundo, I think you could fart in the wind and he could be meta again. He still has a really good lane phase, gets extremely beefy and is hella disruptive.

Also RIP Mundo and Sion jgl

I don't think Sion would be a good jungler to be honest. He takes too much time to setup, he's good with someone who can initiate a fight then he follows up but on his own, he's easy to play around. That's good though, that makes him exactly what he should be. As for mundo, he can still clear and has a fast clear but he gets too low in early clears. I still think he's not a terrible pick if you get through his first few clears because he clears the jungle so fucking fast.

I don't see Nautilus doing well in my games. Naut doesn't have an issue dying Lategame; he just doesn't really have a good easy of surviving until Lategame. Cho , for example, has his passive.

That's not true though, his shield helps him survive a lot and his disruption is really strong. And he also does a lot of damage.

Some divers end up being more assassin like in nature. These I classify as divers; Like Noc, Yi, or XZ. When the divers are more initiating, AoE, and go on the more tanky path, I classify them as tanks. J4 was a really close call, but if the "assassin diver" J4 is the glass cannon J4, that is not the J4 I want to be referenced as for future instances.

I would be fine with this, but J4 needs to have his base damages murdered and build more around being a tank. His Q shred/damage plus ult damage make him a really strong duelist for squishies even when he's full tank. J4 needs a full rework to be more balanced imo.

On a side note, Aatrox is also like a tank diver... (drain tank)

There are drain tanks. Darius basically drain tanks in teamfights with his Q. Illaoi can draintank too. They aren't true draintanks by nature but they have elements of it in their kits.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Naut jgl clears too slow still. I'll try him out when he's free again( no one else really plays Naut jgl, haven't seen it since S3). I assume he clears slower than T2 jglers, so he can't keep pace and will get obliterated in the jgl. He has a ton of cc, so his ganks are really strong naturally. Yes, the buff to Naut in cc on his ult was a little overboard. Any buffs on Naut ends up being abused in top lane though..

Olaf, J4, and Hec should be able to tank, without rushing damage, and be able to actually tank successfully. J4 is locked into damage, and Hec is locked into Triforce. Olaf needs to be viable in SoloQ. Maybe a rework.

Rek and Grag are only tier 1 jglers in pro play. Grag is most played, and has the highest winrate with Runic echoes. They're going overboard with Rek' sai net's, but it's for the pro scene... Zac isn't tier 1, and his only jgl item he can really get is Cinder. Thought more people would be getting Warrior's on Hec, but I was wrong. The same set of tank jglers with the highest winrates still have the high winrates ( looking at Sej and Amumu), but the majority of tank jglers aren't doing that great.

Leona got a nice set of buffs, Ali is always good. I don't really feel Braum ever ends up tanking well, but the stats show otherwise. "Tanks" like Blitz and Thresh do a really bad job at being tanky though. You can't tank as them until way later on.

Mundo's damage is piss and only gets worse the more the game goes on.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Naut jgl clears too slow still. I'll try him out when he's free again( no one else really plays Naut jgl, haven't seen it since S3). I assume he clears slower than T2 jglers, so he can't keep pace and will get obliterated in the jgl. He has a ton of cc, so his ganks are really strong naturally. Yes, the buff to Naut in cc on his ult was a little overboard. Any buffs on Naut ends up being abused in top lane though..

Run attack speed quints, armor yellows and either AD or AS reds and go 0/12/18. His clear will be fine.

Olaf, J4, and Hec should be able to tank, without rushing damage, and be able to actually tank successfully. J4 is locked into damage, and Hec is locked into Triforce. Olaf needs to be viable in SoloQ. Maybe a rework.

Why? You have to pick between being tanky or doing damage. That's a perfectly acceptable choice.

Rek and Grag are only tier 1 jglers in pro play. Grag is most played, and has the highest winrate with Runic echoes. They're going overboard with Rek' sai net's, but it's for the pro scene... Zac isn't tier 1, and his only jgl item he can really get is Cinder.

Zac can easily run echoes lol. Have you seen what AP Zac does?

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah you have to choose dmg or tank. But when you go full tank, you do a bad job at tanking. This is especially true on J4. There is very little reward for you to not build a ton of AD on him.

Don't think AP Zac is a good idea. Something fun, but not for ranked.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah you have to choose dmg or tank. But when you go full tank, you do a bad job at tanking. This is especially true on J4. There is very little reward for you to not build a ton of AD on him.

He's not supposed to be great at tanking, it's been purposely removed from kit because he was too good at everything.

Don't think AP Zac is a good idea. Something fun, but not for ranked.

Dude, there are so many full AP Zac one tricks in high plat/low diamond. His damage is actually absurd.

KGDisasta1 votes

{quoted}

Better yet, who isn't "tanking" as well as they're supposed to? Because I play Malphite, Maokai and Alistar and I do very well on them and can tank for long durations.

upwards of 0.57s....super long

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

upwards of 0.57s....super long

No

KGDisasta1 votes

{quoted}

No

You're right. Its usually less time.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

You're right. Its usually less time.

No

KGDisasta1 votes

{quoted}

No

apart from you being an asshole, i just finished a game where a vayne 100-0 a rammus solo in less than 4s. i looked and he had 220 armour, including thornmail, just in items. you add runes and his W, and you are looking at close to if not over 400 armour. 10% lifesteal vayne is healing off of him. That is a perfect example of how shit tanks are, and how cancer adc's are right now.

kasfas4 votes

The biggest problem for tank players is lack of follow up from the team, because we find a great engage in a lane that we array easily sieging, yet 2 of my team mates decide to head mid because they aren't directly fighting anyone.

Like if a tank goes in and gets the carry, FIGHT! Don't be indecisive unless everyone has flash and ult down or something.

Arguably though LDR is pretty broken against tanks as is executioners against sustain and that makes the game unfun for tank players.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

Some carries don't even need to kite to kill tanks lol

HateDaddy9 votes

{quoted}

Some carries don't even need to kite to kill tanks lol

You mean kog.

Because vayne definitely needs to kite

Golden Tager X1 votes

Kog is a problem?

Rammus ok.

Seriously he kills himself so quickly on rammus it is actually comical.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

Kog is a problem?

Rammus ok.

Seriously he kills himself so quickly on rammus it is actually comical.

No he doesn't

chubs12241 votes

When I play kog against rammus I get either a wits end or a nashors tooth. And switch my botrk with a gunblade it lets me heal through the damage while still melting you with percent max damage

KGDisasta1 votes

{quoted}

When I play kog against rammus I get either a wits end or a nashors tooth. And switch my botrk with a gunblade it lets me heal through the damage while still melting you with percent max damage

Its exactly why thornmail needs to scale harder with damage being dealt, or apply greivous wounds. No adc should ever be able to heal off of someone with tonnes of armour and thornmail.

HateDaddy1 votes

Kog is not gonna care that much regardless of what you do. His build flexibility makes him good at dealing with tanks, that's his niche tbh

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

no. every adc outside jhin with a bloodthirster. they can. sit and auto without kiting. including vayne. unless they are autoing a rammus.

KGDisasta4 votes

{quoted}

no. every adc outside jhin with a bloodthirster. they can. sit and auto without kiting. including vayne. unless they are autoing a rammus.

i have literally had 600 armour (with rammus w) and still died to full ad in under 5s. thornmail and his w up and they are still on BT sheild. tanks themselves may not be underpowered but armour pen is certainly broken AF.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

no. every adc outside jhin with a bloodthirster. they can. sit and auto without kiting. including vayne. unless they are autoing a rammus.

No

GULAG 4 U2 votes

Oh really? because the second they get touched by cc they're dead.

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