Remember,before the marksmen update?

Lady Hammerlock·Nov 30, 2015·9 votes·606 views

Everybody on the boards said AP champions are useless masteries on ap champions are useless

i bet they must feel quite dumb now

16 Comments

ZephyrDrakeNov 30, 20154 votes

yeah, they must feel dumb because very specific mages are actually able to use the terrible AP keystones effectively while the rest are left to cry as they attempt to even make use of the terrible keystone masteries and hope to god they can be used effectively. Yet AA based champions have so many things they can play with and tanks have a decent amount of things they can work with, supports also have enough things they can play with. What are left for non-dot mages? thunderlord? at least it got a CD buff so that might help a bit, still doesn't change much in the long run since they barely have anything else to work with

RebonackNov 30, 20154 votes

You have to keep in mind that a lot of the folks who post on here are so awful at this game and have such a lacking understanding of how it works at a mechanical level that they have no grasp of just how ignorant they are.

People were wailing that Mages and Tanks would be super-nerfed by the pre-season patch. The fact that ADCs were all losing 50ish AD late game, most of their armor pen against hard targets, and all of their armor pen against soft ones couldn't sway them. They couldn't fathom how powerful Deathfire and Thunderlord's are. They couldn't wrap their head around how potent 45% CDR is. And so Mages and Tanks suddenly becoming OP as balls caught them by surprise.

Lady HammerlockDec 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You have to keep in mind that a lot of the folks who post on here are so awful at this game and have such a lacking understanding of how it works at a mechanical level that they have no grasp of just how ignorant they are.

People were wailing that Mages and Tanks would be super-nerfed by the pre-season patch. The fact that ADCs were all losing 50ish AD late game, most of their armor pen against hard targets, and all of their armor pen against soft ones couldn't sway them. They couldn't fathom how powerful Deathfire and Thunderlord's are. They couldn't wrap their head around how potent 45% CDR is. And so Mages and Tanks suddenly becoming OP as balls caught them by surprise.

keep in mind,me the maker of this very post is bronze

XonraDec 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You have to keep in mind that a lot of the folks who post on here are so awful at this game and have such a lacking understanding of how it works at a mechanical level that they have no grasp of just how ignorant they are.

People were wailing that Mages and Tanks would be super-nerfed by the pre-season patch. The fact that ADCs were all losing 50ish AD late game, most of their armor pen against hard targets, and all of their armor pen against soft ones couldn't sway them. They couldn't fathom how powerful Deathfire and Thunderlord's are. They couldn't wrap their head around how potent 45% CDR is. And so Mages and Tanks suddenly becoming OP as balls caught them by surprise.

 There are a small handful of mages that work "well" with this patch, and that is only DoT mages, like Brand for example, and the mastery is getting nerfed last I heard, and some of the mages are already getting changes because of said mastery. So the hindsight brigade is suddenly saying "hahaha you guys were wrong" when in fact, people were right, as a small group of mages are good in one specific scenario because of one specific scenario.

 Tanks are also NOT very good right now outside of a select few (Mundo), as this is a very fast meta, and I dunno if you've actually been playing League of Legends on your high hindsight horse, but tanks are played even less than they were a month and a half ago BEFORE the preseason patch. 

 Also most of the end of your little rant was kind of something you must have heard two people saying somewhere, because I haven't heard anyone before or after saying Deathfire was bad (on the contrary saying it was the only thing that would make AP champs strong in the new keystone masteries, which is true for the most part, which is what is making the DoT mages so strong <_<) and NO ONE said anything negative about the 45% cdr. You are pulling that out of your butthole, because I only ever saw the opposite, then those "high elo" elitist saying how dumb low elo people were for thinking it was so strong, etc. You are basically smoking something, that's all I'm saying.

AP mages are also far from OP so you have lost it, and tanks being OP? What games have you been watching and playing? I guess ONE tank (Mundo) being good because of a buff he got that has nothing to do with the preseason patch is suddenly something you are wrapping up into it to try and prove your point? MAybe Malphite who people already gave up on. I guess Rammus is your next example? There are less tanks in the game right now than ever before, which is sad given the fact that just earlier in 2015 was a full on tank Meta, now you see few outside of Mundo specifically. Top is all Jax all the time, tons of Lee Sin, and unless you are talking about support, what tanks are you talking about?

ChaosThiefDec 1, 20154 votes

AP champions now are in a very bad spot in comparison. AD champions (specifically marksman) have much better itemization, and early games, making them scale much much more powerfully. They can easily hold a lead because mages need many more items.

That's just my thoughts on the topic anyway.

azrolatorNov 30, 20153 votes

I see it more as a problem with certain mages. Some mages fared well with the mastery changes while others did not. But there is something there for all the marksmen to get a lot out of. I feel like the offense tree in general is kinda crappy. Something for fast aa champs and crit aa champs, not so much for bruiser types. Not so much for champs working on magic pen and longer cds instead of short cds and lots of straight up AP.

fééd l0rdNov 30, 20151 votes

They don't feel dumb. They are dumb. There was a level 18 guy who wanted to explain me why ap champs are screwed and could not make one viable argument lmao.

Lady HammerlockNov 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They don't feel dumb. They are dumb. There was a level 18 guy who wanted to explain me why ap champs are screwed and could not make one viable argument lmao.

well....he is lvl 18.....i'd presume his knowledge isn't .... well.....you know

i mean the first thought everybody has in there brain is AP=DMG so first people look into the dumbfounded offensive tree where deathfiretouch exists..they even use it on burst mages.......

then we have the tree far far far better for bursty AP champions the cunning tree,which a lot of people ignored windspeakers is amazing on immobile champions for its a good way for a get in get out sort of style thunderlords adds an absurd amount of added burst when used

and people complained about how terrible AP items are people forgot that gold gains per min where increased this was only to compensate and the item 3157 nerf was well deserved especially in a snowball meta if this wasn't changed champions will get this to soon to fast...

boards logic amirite

BârdDec 1, 20151 votes

I think you meant stormraiders.

Windspeakers is the healing one.

Lady HammerlockDec 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X91jpEko,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-01T05:09:02.589+0000)

I think you meant stormraiders.

Windspeakers is the healing one.

JustMyBassCannonDec 1, 20151 votes

AP have had superior versatility and itemization for a long time, but the difference is that they gained it gradually. AP champions have had their items evolving ever since they turned Zhonya's Ring into Rabadon's Deathcap and Zhonya's Hourglass, then further expanding other item choices as time went on.

AD champions have, in the span of a few months (from Juggernaut update to now), received similar updates to their build variety and strengths. The only real problem with that kind of update is that they haven't had the time to precisely balance everything, because it happened much more rapidly. Thanks to the pre-season, they have time to work over the numbers and interactions, but some people apparently don't enjoy being a part of the process of evolution.

XonraDec 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

AP have had superior versatility and itemization for a long time, but the difference is that they gained it gradually. AP champions have had their items evolving ever since they turned Zhonya's Ring into Rabadon's Deathcap and Zhonya's Hourglass, then further expanding other item choices as time went on.

AD champions have, in the span of a few months (from Juggernaut update to now), received similar updates to their build variety and strengths. The only real problem with that kind of update is that they haven't had the time to precisely balance everything, because it happened much more rapidly. Thanks to the pre-season, they have time to work over the numbers and interactions, but some people apparently don't enjoy being a part of the process of evolution.

I think it is more people don't like being guinea pigs instead of just enjoying logging in and playing and having things change over time (such as your example of AP itemization over the AD changes all at once).

When things change gradually, you have time to get used to it, and still play the game the same way. When you have...the AD itemization change...along with tower AND minion snowball changes, AND an influx of gold, AND vision changes, AND a complete overhaul of the mastery system, all at one time, there is no "enjoying being part of evolution" as much as being a live lab rat. The past preseasons have never had this many drastic changes at once, they usually had one big one and some small changes, or a lot of small changes, but not a bucket filled with changes that impact everything directly all at once. I think you are assuming the worst of people thinking they simply don't like the change and evolution of the game, and ignoring they don't like having all of it at once.

There was a lot to take in, and just one or two changes alone were a lot to get used to, but all of it at once is leaving people feeling a little dizzy trying to piece it all together, while things STILL change.

JustMyBassCannonDec 1, 20151 votes

While that's true regarding how players feel about the Marksman changes themselves, that's a bit aside from the subject of comparing AP to AD in the context of the Marksman changes.

And, while I'm acclimated to these months of chaos, I can understand players getting whiplash from the sudden load of changes. It's kind of like how Season 1 felt when new champions came out every other week and Riot tended to make far more changes per patch than they do now.

But they don't really have a long enough time frame to slowly rework each individual Marksman and introduce each individual item. They have a couple months to set up the changes and balance them out. Doing it slowly might have the whole project done by Season 7, and then we'd be hearing people complain about Riot's picking order and who's left in the dust because they haven't gotten their changes, or how they added a new item for champ group A, but they've left group B without their special fix.