I didn't want to be that guy jumping on the Graves hate train but....

Lady Hammerlock··114 votes·7,314 views

He sorely reminds me of a Draven rushing item 3072 only its worse.. So graves can buy deaths dance and still deal more burst damage the vladimir slowly dies of coughing uhm... take barely any damage when he gets item 3812 item 3046 while also having a dash that gives him armour and mr,heal for a large amount simply by having warlords and deaths dance crits that basically match the dmg of a crit Draven only unlike draven he doesn't have to juggle like a god damn clown to get the damage still have utility in form of nearsight

thats enough steam burning...downvote all you want but thats just bullshit

EDIT:I honestly didn't expect this many views on your average QQ thread...let me change what I said earlier,He isn't broken after his Auto nerfs its just beyond frustrating to kill a bruiser(yes i consider him a bruiser) that happens to have ranged attacks while also having burst

87 Comments

Goodest Gamer27 votes

Fuck graves man. Everytime he's on my team he's suiciding and useless but whenever he's on the enemy team he's a damn god that needs to be gangbanged in order for him to die

summonermhrysos28 votes

Also known as the Shaco syndrome. This effect may or may not also appear with these following champions: LeeSin Blitzcrank Draven Ahri

HeadHonchkrow10 votes

Azir Fizz Yasuo you fUrgot these

KarKzz19 votes

You forgot the worst offenders : Vayne Riven

NsEternal2 votes

riven isnt even good, doesnt belong on this list.

blessthekellen21 votes

you completely missed that point there kiddo.

Dr Poro3 votes

Rivens don't feed. They go afk after giving first blood.

Jesus is Savior17 votes

{quoted}

Azir Fizz Yasuo you fUrgot these

Yasuo Yasuo always feeds. On both teams.

The difference with him is he is like Master Yi. He can go from 2/10 to 7/10 with one good knockup and ult.

Remlap12233 votes

Lee Syndrome is where people who play Lee HAVE TO FUCKING Q TWICE OR ELSE THE RAPE GOBLINS WILL COME AFTER THEM!

Blitz isn't a syndrome in of itself, its just a symptom of being a horribly designed champion (Nidalee was in the same boat before her rework).

summonermhrysos5 votes

Excuse me if I didn't clarify,but what I meant was that these champions that I had listed were some of the most severe cases of Shaco syndrome,for eample: Their Blitzcrank: Always snipe-grabs your squishies with the godhand hook,steals your dragons,barons and any buff of yours that you are desperately try to contest with his Q,which hit's like a nuke thanks to his fully stacked mejai's. Our Blitzcrank: His hooks grab only three things:minions,thin air and the enemy team's heavy engage tank.

Weasel Kensei1 votes
PSOCALY2 votes

Teemo is actually not as annoying as these champions... He's been under the radar along with Riven for a while now...

Let the down voting begin

Senate2 votes

I mean... It makes sense. Right now, Teemo seems to be in a balanced spot. He can reasonably destroy enemies, while also requiring some planning for complete victory (an ally Teemo baiting three enemies from dragon into three different shrooms).

Ragaren1 votes

This happens everytime i get a Zed.

Enemy Zed destroys my mid and bot laners. Meanwhile my Zed is going 0/8 against a Morgana with ignite.

Evewynn15 votes

It'd be fine if he didn't have one of the strongest defense steroids in the game

Only Play Darius13 votes

That steroid was created with the expectation that he would be the traditional botlane ADC building straight glass, the armor/MR boost is fair considering his short range and reload requirement, it's interaction with Steraks/Maw/etc. is what's inappropriate. All they have to do is make those items less effective on ranged champions.

Dunkrius2g3 votes

the armor/MR boost is fair considering his short range and reload requirement

Will only be fair if it is 60 ARM/60 MR or 90 ARM/ 90 MR or 60 (25% bonus armor/ mr).

ImmortalBloodCY6 votes

Vlad got no dmg, no sustain either.

You pick Vladimir and you feel yourself dying a little bit inside because you cant burst down anyone anymore.

Its very Unfair to compare Graves to Vladimir.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

Vlad got no dmg, no sustain either.

You pick Vladimir and you feel yourself dying a little bit inside because you cant burst down anyone anymore.

Its very Unfair to compare Graves to Vladimir.

I say that graves does more burst then vlad

ImmortalBloodCY6 votes

Yes but comparing Graves to current Vlad? that's totally unfair.

If you were comparing Graves to old Vlad then it would be fine.

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

{quoted}

Yes but comparing Graves to current Vlad? that's totally unfair.

If you were comparing Graves to old Vlad then it would be fine.

pretty sure graves woukd still outsustain and out burst old vlad..a crit auto+both Q procs could probably do roughly the same as a full vlad rotation

A Basic Island3 votes

{quoted}

pretty sure graves woukd still outsustain and out burst old vlad..a crit auto+both Q procs could probably do roughly the same as a full vlad rotation

graves would absolutely out burst old vlad it's no question and it's incredibly foolish to even argue vlad could "outburst" him. Vlad had absolutely no burst, even his all in took 5 or 6 seconds.

RedCyclone5 votes

I just find it funny that he is a better lifesteal tank then Aatrox

Dengeden4 votes

Why would any hate thread for an AD champion receive downvotes?

Graves lost a great deal of his pushing power when they made his passive more crit-reliant. He's as annoying as ever but his unreliable damage puts him in an OKish spot.

General Esdeath 1 votes

unreliable? You can get 100% crit.

item 3046 item 3508 item 3031 item 3087 item 3812 item 3006 or replace the shoes with item 3072 and you have 100% crit plus insane healing.

Dengeden2 votes

Yeah and 0 armor pen. Besides, I was talking about the unreliable damage as a result from his short range and his extremely telegraphed Q and R.

Auz the Ripper3 votes

I'd argue that his R is not really that telegraphed, the cast time is pretty quick

Dengeden1 votes

That's true but it's pretty hard for him to use his R without being very obvious about it, since it takes him out of the fight.

Silverthane4 votes

"juggle like a goddamn clown"

i lol'd +1

LatetotheRace3 votes

So many posts exclaiming how bs Graves is. I don't know why rito won't just nerf him....

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

So many posts exclaiming how bs Graves is. I don't know why rito won't just nerf him....

After his recent auto attack nerfs he isn't neccesarily broken just frustrating as hell

LatetotheRace4 votes

I feel like just the concept of a ranged drain tank with mobility, and a long-ranged execute is just a recipe for disaster. It was incredibly dangerous to add a champion with the handicap that Graves has with his auto-attacks. If a champion has an inherent weakness, Riot will more often than not, heavily over compensate.

THE RlVER KlNG6 votes

Unless they're a mage

Smithney2 votes

Keep in mind that Graves wasn't designed to be a drain tank. It's just the items he can abuse that allow him the playstyle.

Personally, I think the clip handicap is actually a good power lever, only it isn't usable enough because of how influential items are. Perhaps if Riot gave up on the notion of midrange bruiser then finally Graves would feel fair.

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

Pretty sure after my ie and phantom I hit even harder than I did before.

HazyCloud72 votes

This is what happens you give a champion (potentially) 120 free armor and magic resist built into their kit.

creatureplex1 votes

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LankPants11 votes

Graves loves dynamic que he always gets a support that works well and communicates with him.

Hate to point out the flaw in your random anti-dynamic que rant but Graves is not played much as an ADC. He's mostly a Jungler and secondly a top lanner.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/j61l64En-flaws-of-dynamic-que Graves loves dynamic que he always gets a support that works well and communicates with him. Follow the link and vote against dynamic que and help maintain the Graves threat!

What is wrong with you?

creatureplex1 votes

What is wrong with me dynamic que! That's what's wrong with me, fuck Graves who gives a fuck he dies unless somewhat physically can't die it's not important right now, bringing back solo que is and super important Graves getting nerfed, buff who gives a fuck either way solo que's gone and we're all fucked unless the gamer base us decided to finally step up and fight back the few and the proud won't get anywhere but if every person that doesn't like dynamic que stepped up said so by voting for it, and threatening to leave, Riot will give us it back but only if enough people vote!

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

Don't want solo. Love my dynamic.

~ player base

creatureplex1 votes

That's good for you enjoy dynamic que but what about us solo que players, wouldn't you rather play a game that's completely fair that's competition I don't know about you whether I win or lose, at least I knew I loss because that person was better or I won because I was better, I like games when they can go either way, that's what's important to me, not the victory but the enjoyment of competion saying gg dude you play kick ass you kicked my ass you played well congrats we should 1 v 1 and maybe I can learn something from you that was fun to me, now it's like you kicked my ass gg well I got helped my pre made partner made sure you coudln't kill me :(((((((( that's my respond to it, dynamic que sucks dude!

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

No, dynamic queue is great. My match for gold 5 promos. I was a solo player. Yas feeds, goes 1/11 and afks. The sp is s optimistic and encourage us. We rally together and fucking win that 4v5. Nothing wrong with DQ.

creatureplex1 votes

Again when an afker is involved it completely changes the game most of the time you'll lose a 4 v 5 but most of the time you win those it's simply because the other team got overly cocky and said good easy game and didn't take you guy's seriously that has nothing to do with dynamic que as a whole that's just another issue with the game altogether ntm you didn't say anything about a party, were there a pre made team part of your group that game? Were they using voice chat? These stuff unless you ask you probably don't know, in bronze any strategy is better than no strategy that's just how it is. My problems is this more noobs now play because riot did a poll and found out that the reason some people don't play rank is simply because they couldn't play with their friends, and they didn't like that, they still played the game they just didn't play rank riot wanted them to rank, they didn't think about how much solo players wouldn't want to play in this system, now it's true in a 2 man group they will try their best and mostly succeed in placing you against another 2 man group and because of that new system the penalty they had for being part of a duo que no longer exist riot didn't feel it was necessary, okay now there's this this new system does not try to match a 2 man with a 3 man and so forth so most games a pre-made group unless it's a 5 man group will have a solo que player in their group, more commonly 2 mans and 3 mans are the most common where the 3 man normally is jungle support and bot, they'll face another 3 man group most likely or at the very least another 2 man group, but then their's the solo quers where the 2 man at bot are solo quers while they're trying to lane they have a jungler camping bot lane with their duo partners sup and adc, making it near impossible for bot lane to even push most of the time. That's the issue with dynamic que this happens too often especially in bronze and these players stay in bronze because most of them aren't core gamers, they are casual players that don't even play this game that much, the others that do are bronze noobs that simply couldn't rank up by themselves before season 6 because they sucked, with the introduction of dynamic que, it's now a lot easier to get out of bronze for groups, but for solo quers it's now more of a grind, we gotta deal with afkers, smurfs, noobs and now at all levels up to plat, trollers, flamers, and now with dynamic que pre-mades with voice chat. In bronze every little advantage you can have is super effective, any advantage, it's pretty much like this giving a team 10 kills or so in the first 20 minutes who's going to win this match, usually the better group will win regardless of the other players, solo que players now have less control over the game progression where before if we coudln't get out of bronze it was our fault we sucked, but now if we get out we got a nice asterisk above our rank, and if we can't usually pre-mades are usually a big reason the statistics of being with a 2 man group is extremely high whether against or for with this argument here you are more likely to face a 2 man or 3 man group than you are to have one on your team, very slightly they are 5 you guys only have 4 which means you'll more often face a 2 man group with you all being solo quers, than having a 2 man group on your team facing 5 solo quers. Really makes the game one sided now! It effects me more because I'm a solo quer that loves top and bot, so this means I take up 2 positions that pre-mades like the most 2 mans like top and jungler because they can play with each other more on the otherhand, 2 man even 3 man love jungler, support, and adc. You see the issue with mid, solo quers won't be effected as much but with me I can't play my favorite 2 roles because I'll often be force to play against a duo que whether top or bot sometimes even a 3 man group.

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

I was solo. Yas was solo. Don't think the other 3 were together. I carried hard top lane that game. All of us besides mid just went all out.

creatureplex1 votes

Yeah you got lucky and nobody was on a duo que team dude, it doesn't happen everygame sometimes you get lucky and there are no duos that happens one out of three games maybe dynamic que sucks because of duos and other premades I mean have you ever been that person stuck on a 4 man team going up against a 5 man pre-made I'll admit this has happened to me twice, once we were all solo going up against a 5 man team and we got stomped badly horribly it was pathetic it felt like we were facing an lcs team because there wasn't shit we could do, tower dives the entire game 4 v 1 often teleporting in after we push pass river, they capitalized on every mistake we made we were down 0-15 by 20 minutes we got stomped hard, duos will mostly go sup bot, and when you are a solo player playing bot and if your sup isn't a very good sup you probably going to lose lane easily you can't even cs at all without getting focused hard, same with top lane most games I can't win top lane at all I start fighting 1 v 1 top laner and the jungler will come up there and gank me sometimes even coming through my own tri bush to get me. Communication is better in this game than the lack of it, when you are a solo player you are playing at a disadvantage now because more often than not there is going to be a pre-made on your team either 2 man or 3 man if the pre-made is not better than the enemy's you are probably going to lose that game. As a solo que player we have zero to no influence on how this game is going to play out if your bot against a 3 man team and the jungler is camping that lane you aren't going to get a lot of kills same with top lane and with pre-mades they'll generally camp the lane that their partner is playing in trying to snowball their teammate, since I play top bot i take up 2 positions that are sought after by pre-mades, do you understand my point on why dynamic que is not fair for solo que players at all?

SirSmokeysAlot1 votes

I understand that you do not think it is fair. Me? I don't mind it.

creatureplex1 votes

There is no fair thing about it zero fairness it does impact the game a lot of the times, you telling me that you prefer dynamic que than solo que?

creatureplex1 votes

And I understand but you aren't bronze dude I've been stuck in bronze since the beginning of this season bronze 5 my cs has improved where I average more cs no matter what position than the average player does which is counted for all people that play that champion, I learned attack move and got good at it, very good at dodging skill shots like really good even learning how to dodge certain ults from jinx, ashe, and ezreal, got better at kiting need work towards team fighting scenerios and learning how to better deal with assassins, but overall I've gotten better and even made it to Bronze 4 just to run into 3 games in a row where I had to face a pre-made team and got camped the entire time during laning phase all 3 games their jungler camp my lane had me hugging tower you know how hard it is to farm under tower? Takes a lot of practice but you aren't going to hit every single 1, no matter how good you are. Right now I'm negative 3 lp I'm at the same place I was 2 months ago and even though I'm improving as a player I'm getting stone walled from these fn pre-mades that really make it hard to do anything against.

creatureplex1 votes

Point is I'm not having any fun anymore I'm constantly taking a step forwards then force to take a step back and maybe I'm a little on tilt right now but I've played 1 game in the last 4 days and of course my last game against a pre-made where the Braum was a plat player on another account boosting his top laner Shen which may I add sucked dramatically. Before season 6 I played this game a lot I deserved to be placed in Bronze shit Bronze 5 even because when I first started this season I sucked I'm not even going to lie, but I got better and honestly I just want to move up and it's hard now pratically impossible I'm playing with and against the worst players in my league where communication is how can call each the most names right now, but pre-mades is just completely devastating me I feel I can't even pass my turret because I'm afraid that jungler is already campion my tri-bush waiting for me to start csing, I check it but you get my point I ward good places my tri-bush enemy tri-bush, my dragon's pit, I don't gank that often but him just being there and seeing him constantly forces me to have to back off making it hard to pressure the turret or the enemy players out of fear, I don't want to die so I fall back. Usually my support sucks it is bronze what can you expect but before season 6 chances are so did their's and their adc so the better player won, but now it's like the people with most friends in the game wins.

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