Despite the fact that non ADC bot laners became meta right after the ADC changes.
Now that I've uninstalled I should really just limit myself to GD or never come back to the boards as a whole. This place lowers my IQ every single time I log on.
AirKingNeo8 votesthat's what happens when you have mage mains who circlejerk that their class is weak despite evidence run the boards, unfortunately
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417343820108267542/468182839314350100/DiGS8EFVMAANokF.png
Rexxiee4 votesthat's what happens when you have mage mains who circlejerk that their class is weak despite evidence run the boards, unfortunately
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417343820108267542/468182839314350100/DiGS8EFVMAANokF.png
Holy shit that picture is actually so true that it hurts.
NERF BRUISERS THEY ARE EVERYWHERE AND DOMINATING BOT LANE AND... Oh we have 3~4 mages bot lane per game.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesSure there are mages bot, but that's because they got pushed out of mid by assassins that have better waveclear than mages for most of the game and can delete said mages with little counterplay.
saltran1 votesLMAO that pic is amazing
Rexxiee6 votesWhos even saying that? havent seen anyone talking about it, specially considering high elo bot lane is basically heimer swain ryze vlad now.
Mizaya5 votesThere are people saying Marksman is "balanced" now, and also trying to say they're better late game as a counterpoint, which it really isn't cuz late game is irrelevant.
Similarly the "marksmen are good but games are too short" argument-- I get what they're trying to say but you can only really discuss balance comparatively and in context, otherwise anyone could make any ridiculous claim. Marksmen themselves can be whatever you want, they're bad in the context of the meta is what matters.
D357R0Y3R6 votesit's not that late game is irrelevant
it's that even in late game , oppenents that pick double supports or heimer+brand are still as relevant as you in late game if you pick an adc
Paroe3 votesThere are people saying Marksman is "balanced" now, and also trying to say they're better late game as a counterpoint, which it really isn't cuz late game is irrelevant.
Similarly the "marksmen are good but games are too short" argument-- I get what they're trying to say but you can only really discuss balance comparatively and in context, otherwise anyone could make any ridiculous claim. Marksmen themselves can be whatever you want, they're bad in the context of the meta is what matters.
are all effective early game champs who share a trait... Theyre great lane bullies who are more casters than anything else.
If you want to win in the early game, pick an early game champ. You dont pick a lategame champ when games dont lead to the lategame.
Also... Bruiser bot only works if the enemy is an immobile ADC with a support who cant really deal with engages like braum or sona. Against anyone competent, its an auto-loss.
T3rminus3 votesa support who cant really deal with engages like braum
Isn't Braum literally counter-engage by design?
Paroe4 votesIsn't Braum literally counter-engage by design?
Counter engage by traditional bot lanes, yes. He actually doesnt do much if; A) The enemy has a lot of damage and just engages on the squishy B) The allied marksman doesnt react to the same target as you
I cant tell you how many times ive landed a Q and begun trying to stun an enemy, only for my allied marksman to go after the one i havent tagged. Sometimes even flashing just to get in range.
Mizaya2 votesWell, everyone's picking early game now. So really, you're picking early game not to lose bot lane. It's not like I pick Lucian and instantly start dominating lane, typically the mid/jungle on one team gets an advantage and that spills over to bot.
But mages seem pretty effective, i mean Heimer at rift rivals anyone? Bruisers aren't anywhere near as good. I've been playing Yasuo bot a bit in norms and I typically get the cs advantage but never snowballed that hard.
Paroe2 votesWell, everyone's picking early game now. So really, you're picking early game not to lose bot lane. It's not like I pick Lucian and instantly start dominating lane, typically the mid/jungle on one team gets an advantage and that spills over to bot.
But mages seem pretty effective, i mean Heimer at rift rivals anyone? Bruisers aren't anywhere near as good. I've been playing Yasuo bot a bit in norms and I typically get the cs advantage but never snowballed that hard.
Theres also the fact that if you dont have a marksman, you need to close the game early. You just arent as capable at siege and objectives without one. Its kind of their original main reason to exist.
Rexxiee2 votesTheres also the fact that if you dont have a marksman, you need to close the game early. You just arent as capable at siege and objectives without one. Its kind of their original main reason to exist.
Actually you dont.
Ever since they buffed AP damage to towers and made it all magic means any mage can nuke down the paper towers, meaning you dont need adc to break down objectives in 2~3 seconds, which in turn means its better to pick a mage who has a much better early and mid game while still scaling well.
Paroe2 votesActually you dont.
Ever since they buffed AP damage to towers and made it all magic means any mage can nuke down the paper towers, meaning you dont need adc to break down objectives in 2~3 seconds, which in turn means its better to pick a mage who has a much better early and mid game while still scaling well.
What patch was that, where they buffed magic damage to turrets? Im pretty sure that they always did damage based on their AP, it was just physical.
Also AD+ASP > Raw AP. Yes they can push... but not as fast, not as freely, and if they get stopped they generally cant seige unless their team already had a zone mage like Orianna or lux.
Disulfiram2 votesIf you want to win in the early game, pick an early game champ. You dont pick a lategame champ when games dont lead to the lategame.
Finally, a voice of reason!
Crit adcs cannot be allowed to be, at the same time, effective early/mid AND the best lategame scaling class. They can't because that would mean that their power curve peaks from the start of the game all the way to its end! Why can't people realize how game-breaking is that?
Now crit adcs have been pushed into being weak early/mid while still being the best lategame scaling class.
You don't like that? You want to pick crit adcs in an early game meta? Fine, then let's make crit items cheaper AND harshly decrease the crit chance cap or damage multiplier. This would make adcs effective earlier but also nerf their "best lategame scaling" status.
Marshbouy2 votesliterally top post on hot right now dude.
ModWulf Helhammer5 votesThe amount of nonsense in that thread just......
Taking a lot not to just let fly.
SugeMinPikk1 votesI haven't read the comments, but I feel like the OP was implying that the ADC changes were net neutral in casual play..
Mizaya5 votesThey're a buff
For late game, the most relevant part of the game in our current 25 min meta of course :)
heroikc3 votesThey're a buff
For late game, the most relevant part of the game in our current 25 min meta of course :)
Not good enough I'm afraid. And if Riot wants to keep this short, snowball and varied bot meta, marksmen are never coming back as a whole.
Not that this meta is any fun in general.
SugeMinPikk2 votesMF, Luc, Jhin, Ez, Draven, Jinx, Ashe, Xayah, and Kaisa are still here..
Fízz v23 votesAdcs arent the only viable class bot so ~10 out of 19 marksmen still being more than playable = the whole class is dead Kappa
heroikc4 votesMF, Luc, Jhin, Ez, Draven, Jinx, Ashe, Xayah, and Kaisa are still here..
Until someone with duskblade rips them apart...or a fighter goes in and tears them up. Honestly, there's no point in grabbing marksmen since mages are better early and mid game, need fewer items to pop off, and everyone else is AD.
SugeMinPikk1 votesUntil someone with duskblade rips them apart...or a fighter goes in and tears them up.
It's been like that since duskblade was put in the game lol
Honestly, there's no point in grabbing marksmen since mages are better early and mid game, need fewer items to pop off, and everyone else is AD.
Every champion on that list is a 1-item power spike ADC (or, in Draven's case, champ select powerspike ADC).
• MF builds lethality, so the changes didn't touch her. • Ezreal is the only champion in the game who builds manamune, so the changes didn't touch him. • Lucian liked building BoRK before, and ER was changed (as if specifically for him), so he's even better than before. • Ashe is a BoRK user. • Kaisa builds Guinsoo's, so the changes didn't touch her.
The rest synergize with Stormrazor. Stormrazor is quite good. It's actually my favorite item in the game right now. So satisfying to use. If it didn't exist, the ADC pool would probably be limited the 5 above.
Tahminatrix 3 votesI don't understand why riot would want to force AN ENTIRE CLASS OF CHAMPIONS into being late game dominant and early game weak...IT MAKES NO SENSE
Just give adcs PROPER early game itemization and base damage and weaken the general full crit / onhit build...if you want specific champions to be weaker early game and stronger late game JUST TWEAK THEIR KIT TO SCALE MORE WITH ITEMS AT THE COST OF LESS BASE DMG / STATS.
The thigh guy3 votesMarksmen aren’t even good lategame. We get out damaged in the late game as well.
low elo thot1 votesI've heard people say the Infinity Edge change was a late game buff but with team comps nowadays (usually like 2-3 assassins) there's no tanks to justify having the true damage, so you end up at a loss. If I'm expected to get one or two shot at least 8 times or in every team fight and gank then can I at least have my stupid no counterplay 800 damage autos back? Please? Or at least some way to buy armor without having to give up damage for 30 minutes instead of the current 20 minutes.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=low elo thot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X4NF35uz,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-07-16T23:31:46.143+0000)
I've heard people say the Infinity Edge change was a late game buff but with team comps nowadays (usually like 2-3 assassins) there's no tanks to justify having the true damage, so you end up at a loss. If I'm expected to get one or two shot at least 8 times or in every team fight and gank then can I at least have my stupid no counterplay 800 damage autos back? Please? Or at least some way to buy armor without having to give up damage for 30 minutes instead of the current 20 minutes.
Nah. You can leave most things the same. Just give us back old quicksilver sash (the one that removed all debuffs) And nerf electrocute/sudden impact. Those two runes provide way too much damage. Over the course of an entire game on kayn they easily get me over 5k damage for free on each.
low elo thot1 votesPersonally I can't ask for an electrocute nerf until someone at Riot decides 
can be allowed to be balanced without it. Her damage doesn't exist most of the time unless it's up and she lands E. Though the same could probably be said for most champs that take it but that lies more in their lack of synergy with other keystones or the fact that their only utilities are "Damage" and "More Damage."
rtbf2216514121 votes[{quoted}](name=low elo thot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X4NF35uz,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-07-16T23:31:46.143+0000)
no tanks to justify having the true damage
I'm going to leave this champion here so you can figure out why true damage is a problem to him.
low elo thot1 votesI don't really know how Pyke works outside what his abilities do at face value. Does it get rid of his gray health?
saltran2 votesAdCs GeT 100% cRiT wItH 3 iTeMs NoW hOw Is ThAt A nErF, rItO iS fUlL oF aDcS mAiNs
Akali is SO HOT2 votesThey got a pretty big buff late game, but anyone who thinks they got better early game has negative IQ
koshkyra1 votesNobody is saying that
Marshbouy2 votes3TWarrior1 voteswhat does that post have to do with adc's being buffed? if anything, it's just saying that they have a decent early-mid burst and keep their lategame status...
Marshbouy1 votesI permalinked the comment where OP said they were buffed.
Can any of you people read? honestly...
3TWarrior1 votesof some rando who memed the post and is the only person in the post to say that they got stronger? without any reason, in a memed post, with the meme actually saying that Marksmen were the players causing drastic changes by refusing to play in new ways? and yet ironically do this by playing in new ways badly...
here's a quote of the meme
actual toddlers that babyrage at Riot for nerfing ADCs and then start trolling botlane as mages without trying the new adc changes making games shorter and creating unbearable coinflip where either the enemy goes 0/9 or my botlane goes 0/9
Marshbouy1 votesof some rando who memed the post and is the only person in the post to say that they got stronger?
THE PERSON WHO SAID THAT ADCS GOT BUFFED IS THE FUCKING OP.
USE YOUR EYES!
Paroe1 votesLiterally the top post on hot FFS.
Did you know that when you do the math, the difference between old IE and new IE is only 20 per 100 AD? 750 old IE 600+90 new IE. Damage is not only comparable, the true damage makes it a LOT stronger against tanks than old IE was.
3TWarrior1 voteswhen you do the math (at least excluding runes), the difference is only between 10 and 15% or on average about 50-60 damage per auto attack difference
it's the gold difference that hit hard and yet static is still pretty cheap for 140 damage minimum and can combine with stormrazer
