Oh hey, damage got powercreeped again, you know what that means!

hashinshin·Nov 25, 2014·4 votes·1,315 views

Time to nerf the numbers on assassins again.

Continuing the tradition of powercreeping damage every season since season 2, then nerfing assassins.

20 Comments

Fed by Snu SnuNov 25, 20145 votes

ADCs are fine though, because right clicking is a skillful art when done from range.

FyshinaTuxNov 25, 20142 votes

I'd usually agree with the sarcasm here... but after seeing a Master Yi cancel something like 12 auto attacks (i'm not even exaggerating with that figure smh) while chasing down an enemy... I'm not even sure anymore if it's sarcasm or serious...

SMH

hashinshinNov 25, 20144 votes

I don't understand, are you suggesting that right clicking with a perma slow from range on a champion that has an escape move is not skill full and does not inspire you to #LCSbigplays?

OmnipheriousNov 25, 20142 votes

On a more serious note, what if ranged auto-attacks weren't homing?

When a ranged champion releases an auto, the projectile is fired in the direction of facing and travels to the champions max AA range; all ranged AAs have some sort of standardised hitbox; AAs only take the hitbox of the target into account so you can still 'aim' and hit champions behind minions/other champions.

Juking ranged AAs is now a thing, even at point-blank with the right circumstances. Max range AAs against melees running away in a straight line are not guaranteed to hit because it depends on your AA missile speed and whether or not the melee got out of that projectile's max range.

If compensation is needed for the now missable ranged autos, attack move as range now allows you to fire an AA without a target.

Sightless66Nov 25, 20141 votes

I see a mechanical problem with this idea. In order for this to be feasible, autoattacks would need skillshot elements. If enemies are going to be able to dodge my attacks, I need to be able to modify my aim, otherwise the outcome of the fight is based primarily on the dodging skill of the player being attacked. So, I have to have some ability to modify my own aim. However, any mechanism that would allow me to modify my own aim comes with problems of its own, namely what happens when minions or other targets are involved. If I have to fire in a skillshot manner, then that opens up the possibility for body blocking by other champions or minions, which is a massive hit to the usability of autoattacks. I don't think there is a good mechanism for having dodgable autoattacks.

So, unless there is a very innovative new targeting system developed, I don't think it's a good option. It might make things better for melee, but it seems like it would also be extremely frustrating for autoattackers. I get that these threads aren't exactly places where people care about that, but it is worth taking into consideration.

King ReiNov 25, 20141 votes

I see a mechanical problem with this idea. In order for this to be feasible, autoattacks would need skillshot elements. If enemies are going to be able to dodge my attacks, I need to be able to modify my aim, otherwise the outcome of the fight is based primarily on the dodging skill of the player being attacked. So, I have to have some ability to modify my own aim. However, any mechanism that would allow me to modify my own aim comes with problems of its own, namely what happens when minions or other targets are involved. If I have to fire in a skillshot manner, then that opens up the possibility for body blocking by other champions or minions, which is a massive hit to the usability of autoattacks. I don't think there is a good mechanism for having dodgable autoattacks.

So, unless there is a very innovative new targeting system developed, I don't think it's a good option. It might make things better for melee, but it seems like it would also be extremely frustrating for autoattackers. I get that these threads aren't exactly places where people care about that, but it is worth taking into consideration.

Someone didn't play any diablo games :P or games like it. It's still pretty easy to land auto's.

Sightless66Nov 26, 20141 votes

I did. High predictability and front-unit targeting are major factors of that system. I don't think it's a workable system for League. In order to make it work, the entire game would have to be redesigned around it, in the vein of Smite.

OmnipheriousNov 26, 20141 votes

Hm.. I though I covered this in previous post but it seems there was only one line. I shall clarify functionality below.

Basic behaviour Right-clicks release AA to target, functions as stated in previous post.

Advanced behaviour

Left-click locks on to target. Upon specifying a target, immediately attempt to attack.

If lock on is impossible because there no visible targets in range, no automatic attempt will be made but an attack move will fire AAs with skillshot behaviour.

On attack move or right-click, check if target has been specified. If no, auto-targets nearest enemy and AA defaults to basic behaviour (e.g. Priority - Champion, Minion, ... , Structures).

If yes, AA projectile will only check for collision with the hitbox of the specified target, allowing the AA to travel past non-targeted enemies.

Say you are in lane and you attack move, auto-targetting a Vayne. As you duel, minions clash and Vayne passes her minions while fleeing. You continue to right-click/attack move, your AAs only check for collision with Vayne's hitbox since she is the specified target. AAs that stray/miss do not hit anything else or get body blocked.

While Vayne is the specified target, right-clicks release AAs to her location at the time of clicking. An attack move releases an AA to your cursor location while only checking for Vayne's hitbox, so good use of this allows you lead moving targets and still land hits.

Left-clicking something else switches targets.

So this system would still reward the desired orb-walking gameplay pattern of click enemy, click away, repeat, but also removes the mindlessness of homing projectiles.

King ReiNov 25, 20141 votes

On a more serious note, what if ranged auto-attacks weren't homing?

When a ranged champion releases an auto, the projectile is fired in the direction of facing and travels to the champions max AA range; all ranged AAs have some sort of standardised hitbox; AAs only take the hitbox of the target into account so you can still 'aim' and hit champions behind minions/other champions.

Juking ranged AAs is now a thing, even at point-blank with the right circumstances. Max range AAs against melees running away in a straight line are not guaranteed to hit because it depends on your AA missile speed and whether or not the melee got out of that projectile's max range.

If compensation is needed for the now missable ranged autos, attack move as range now allows you to fire an AA without a target.

Try Smite. All auto's (ranged or melee) are skill shots lol. Of course the third person perspective really helps with this. People still get really good at this and blow you up anyway :3

OmnipheriousNov 26, 20141 votes

Don't worry, I'm familiar with Smite. I took the time to get good at using the AA system and suggested this an alternative to the current ranged AA functions but it was a no go. That was a long time ago though, before these Boards were a thing.

TalamareNov 25, 20143 votes

Quick, Nerf Assassins and Bruisers while Buffing ADCs

n0obNov 25, 20141 votes

I have a feeling that this time they will buff armor/mr. IF you're tanky already, great, if not, it doesn't make sense investing in resists when you can just get more damage and or get some extra hp.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 25, 20143 votes

Armor/MR are irrelevant.

Play Malphite and reach 400 armor, see how fast you still die, even from ADCs.

Crits are just too strong and if RNGesus favors you ,you can burst anything. Not dps, plain burst.

FyshinaTuxNov 25, 20141 votes

Armor and MR have diminishing returns past a certain point; at that point, building health gives more effective health than Armor/MR.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 25, 20141 votes

You don't say?

And I've been doing it wrong all this time, building randuin's, an item that has no hp whatsoever or the odd sunfire or warmog's somewhere in there, so totally didn't have any investment in health.

We can agree that health won't be enough though, sure. Even then you will be burst down in seconds unless your name is Maokai or Alistar.

FyshinaTuxNov 25, 20141 votes

Wow, there's no need to be toxic mate. You stated that Armor and MR are completely useless, then mention a Malphite at 400 Armor... The point of Diminishing returns is before 400 armor iirc...

Just pointing something out mate...

Kuroi86Nov 25, 20141 votes

Malph with that much armor is going to R, E, Q and walk away with a kill.

ProfDrDeathNov 25, 20141 votes

Well, that is kinda the point of an AD carry, to give a team the sustained damage output necessary to cut through that 300 Armor, 5k HP tank. If properly build, that is.

You will notice the vastly different price points of tank and carry build paths - tank items are usually far cheaper than completed offensive items. That means that the big powerspike of tanks will come earlier than the one of AD carries. Hence, tanks are stronger/more important than AD carries in the mid game, in general.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 25, 20143 votes

Problem is that we have reached the point where the sustained damage equals to sustained burst.

Sire HippingtonNov 25, 20142 votes

they already buffed damage witht he dragon buff(only offensive rewards), took away the sustain from baronbuff, reduced the highest health item to 800 from 1000 and added a massive armorshred to inhip towers(if they actually fire for a longer time, which only happens vs tanks)

so far, all current changes powercreep damage while tanks get rather nothing.