I get that my MMR is higher than my rank, but this is absurd...

ValyrianBlade·Jun 25, 2016·13 votes·11,611 views

I'm gold 5.

My MMR is around gold 2, maybe even gold 1. Cool. I gain 26-28LP per win and lose 13-14LP per loss. I have no problem with this (except maybe promo series).

What I have a problem with, is: WHY AM I BEING QUEUED WITH GOLD 3-2s AND AGAINST GOLD 1 TO PLAT 4s?

Like, it's fine if you say my MMR is higher and I should play with gold 2s to get an even match. But given that I'm GOLD 5 why is it all of my allies are outranked by my opponents almost every game?

My last game for example: Me: Gold 5 Allies: Gold 3, 2, 1, 3

Enemy team: Gold: 1, 2, 4 Plat: 4, 5

Like even if I was actually ranked gold 2 or gold 1 this game feels unfair. And it's been like this every game, there's always a plat 4 or 5 on the enemy team and rarely one on my team. More often than not, it's MY LANE OPPONENT that's the plat 4. So a full tier ahead.

What gives...

26 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 25, 20164 votes

is it really that your MMR is high or that their MMR is low?

Isnt it entirely possible that the average plat 4 actually plays at the level of a gold V?

Though yes that does say a thing or two about the system itself. I say we get rid of these safety nets

ValyrianBladeJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

is it really that your MMR is high or that their MMR is low?

Isnt it entirely possible that the average plat 4 actually plays at the level of a gold V?

Though yes that does say a thing or two about the system itself. I say we get rid of these safety nets

I'm establishing that my MMR is around gold 2 since the average rank in my last ~10 matches has been gold 2. There's the odd unranked, occasional gold 5/4, occasional plat 4/5, and otherwise everyone is gold 1-3.

Yes, it's very likely that their MMR is also gold 2. And yes MMR is all matchmaking cares about. There's still a big difference though, in order for those guys to get to play 4/5 they had to have been at a plat MMR at some point. Which means it's most likely that they've dropped a bit and gold 2 is what they are at their worst, but on average they'll be better than that. In contrast, the guy who's gold 5 (and has never been ranked higher than gold 5, last season was my first season of ranked and I stopped after hitting gold 5 0LP 2 days before season rewards) is probably not at a platinum level. He's probably at gold 2/1 when he's playing well and can be even high silver in bad games (I mean, that's what I was used to playing with, high silver / low gold).

I don't mind being matchmade at Gold 2 MMR. What I mean is the apparent imbalance. It seems very clear when looking at my match history, that screw MMR the team with the better average league rank wins more often than not.

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm establishing that my MMR is around gold 2 since the average rank in my last ~10 matches has been gold 2. There's the odd unranked, occasional gold 5/4, occasional plat 4/5, and otherwise everyone is gold 1-3.

Yes, it's very likely that their MMR is also gold 2. And yes MMR is all matchmaking cares about. There's still a big difference though, in order for those guys to get to play 4/5 they had to have been at a plat MMR at some point. Which means it's most likely that they've dropped a bit and gold 2 is what they are at their worst, but on average they'll be better than that. In contrast, the guy who's gold 5 (and has never been ranked higher than gold 5, last season was my first season of ranked and I stopped after hitting gold 5 0LP 2 days before season rewards) is probably not at a platinum level. He's probably at gold 2/1 when he's playing well and can be even high silver in bad games (I mean, that's what I was used to playing with, high silver / low gold).

I don't mind being matchmade at Gold 2 MMR. What I mean is the apparent imbalance. It seems very clear when looking at my match history, that screw MMR the team with the better average league rank wins more often than not.

I think from gold 4 to plat something its probably just gonna be mostly the same xD

Just like upper bronze to mid silver. The actual points where you change your strategy up is probably plat 3 or something.

ValyrianBladeJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think from gold 4 to plat something its probably just gonna be mostly the same xD

Just like upper bronze to mid silver. The actual points where you change your strategy up is probably plat 3 or something.

Eh, maybe.

I just had another game. My lane opponent? A plat 3 riven main.

Got 3 free kills on her with early ganks (jungler took all), but 10 minutes later I'm 0/2/3 and she's 8/3/2. Just starts roaming and making plays everywhere. I say maybe because she was Plat 3, so maybe that really is the turning point.

This is BS though. She ended up hard carrying that game (had 16 kills in the end, only 2 or 3 on me), but we shouldn't even be in the same game, let alone lane opponents.

Why is a gold 5 laning against a plat 3? I just don't get it.

CerealBoxOfDoomJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Eh, maybe.

I just had another game. My lane opponent? A plat 3 riven main.

Got 3 free kills on her with early ganks (jungler took all), but 10 minutes later I'm 0/2/3 and she's 8/3/2. Just starts roaming and making plays everywhere. I say maybe because she was Plat 3, so maybe that really is the turning point.

This is BS though. She ended up hard carrying that game (had 16 kills in the end, only 2 or 3 on me), but we shouldn't even be in the same game, let alone lane opponents.

Why is a gold 5 laning against a plat 3? I just don't get it.

reminds me of my riven games actually

just find an opening and bullshit your way through from there.

may be plat three because she's a one trick pony that can pull ahead sometimes.

zlumpyJun 25, 20163 votes

Would be nice if they just got rid of MMR and just did matchmaking on rank for everything lower than profesional play. People will naturally settle out at the rank they should be that way.

AptestJun 25, 20161 votes

how about we do it the other way, and get rid of the bad system (league rank) in favor of the good one that works well (mmr) ?

zlumpyJun 25, 20161 votes

Thats fine also. I just don't like 2 seperate factors determining my game matchups. I'm still suspicious of all games match making systems now after CoD admited to rigging match making to try and force a 50/50 split w/l rate.

AptestJun 25, 20161 votes

a match-making system that works properly gives you both allies and opponents that are on your level.

this invariably results in a 50% win rate.

the entire purpose of a match-making system is "to make the game harder" when you win, and easier if you lose, such that your win rate reaches the 50% ratio.

ofcourse, we trust that match making system is honest and plays fair and does not try to "game you" by nerfing your damage or try to force the 50% statistic by pulling a "time for you to lose mate, here's a shit team and some uber opponents" stunt (there's really no need if the match making actually works).

Melinda MayJun 25, 20162 votes

Either there was a premade on your team or the plat 4-5 mmr were really low.

TheTariansJun 25, 20161 votes

It's really quite simple. Just like how you are Gold V getting match with Gold II and Gold I, due to your MMR being higher than the average Gold V or Gold IV player. It only makes sense that if these Plat V and Play IV players have a much lower MMR than the average for Plat IV and Plat V, that they would be put with Gold I and II MMR players.

It's like this, (in case my last paragraph seemed a little weird). You're Gold V and let's say you have 2000 MMR, which in this case is enough to be put with Gold I and Gold II players. Then let's say we have a Plat III player, who is supposed to have 2500 MMR, but instead he has 2000 MMR. It only makes sense that since his MMR is so much lower than it should be that he would be grouped with players of similar MMR.

The reason why you are not getting Plats on your team is beyond me. But I am simply telling you why you are getting matched with these people.

Rank means nothing, MMR is everything.

ValyrianBladeJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's really quite simple. Just like how you are Gold V getting match with Gold II and Gold I, due to your MMR being higher than the average Gold V or Gold IV player. It only makes sense that if these Plat V and Play IV players have a much lower MMR than the average for Plat IV and Plat V, that they would be put with Gold I and II MMR players.

It's like this, (in case my last paragraph seemed a little weird). You're Gold V and let's say you have 2000 MMR, which in this case is enough to be put with Gold I and Gold II players. Then let's say we have a Plat III player, who is supposed to have 2500 MMR, but instead he has 2000 MMR. It only makes sense that since his MMR is so much lower than it should be that he would be grouped with players of similar MMR.

The reason why you are not getting Plats on your team is beyond me. But I am simply telling you why you are getting matched with these people.

Rank means nothing, MMR is everything.

Yea, I get this. They need to make rank mean something though.

Those plat 4 and 5 players? They've beaten gold 1/2s before. They've played with low plats for sure. How else did they get there? You can't climb in to plat if you're losing to high gold players.

Me as a gold 5? This is literally the first time I'm playing against gold 1/2 players in ranked (to be fair, I play with high gold / low plats a lot in normals, but that's entirely different!). I only started ranked last season, and only got to gold 5 0 LP. Was placed silver 4 this season and just climbed back to gold 5 last weekend. Sure, I'm climbing and winning a reasonable amount, but I'm getting used to playing with better players. You'll notice splashes of losses in a row, and my thought at least is that it's a different level of play that I need to get accustomed to.

So I think it would only make sense, if we're all gold 2 MMR, to put the plat 4/5 with the gold 4/5 and put all the gold 1/2/3 together. Rather than putting the plat 4/5 with gold 1/2 and the gold 2/3 with the gold 4/5. Just doesn't seem to make sense that way. Even if MMR is the same, there's an experience aspect that just really tilts the match. I've gotten early leads in lots of these matches, but their experience in these situations lets them pull it back, whereas my lack of experience prevents me from carrying.

HigeJun 25, 20161 votes

Enjoy while you can, when I reached gold 5 I was earning 22 LP per win, I started loosing a lot and even got demoted to silver 1 back again and my MMR took a deep sink, now I earn 15 LP per win... sigh...

ValyrianBladeJun 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Enjoy while you can, when I reached gold 5 I was earning 22 LP per win, I started loosing a lot and even got demoted to silver 1 back again and my MMR took a deep sink, now I earn 15 LP per win... sigh...

It's nice for the points, but it's hell for the games.

It's not fun only winning about 40% of your games because every game is stacked against you.

Here are my last 8 games: (Win) Silver 2, Gold 2, 3, 3 and me vs Gold 1, 1, 2, 2, 2 (Loss) Gold 2, 2, 3, 5, me vs Plat 3, Gold 3, 4, 5, Unranked (was placed gold 4 after that game) (Win) Plat 3, 3, 5, 5 and me vs Plat 4, 5 and Gold 1, 2, 2 <-- the one game where my side was stronger (Loss) Gold 1, 2, 3, 3 and me vs Plat 4, 5 and Gold 1, 2, 4 (Win) Gold 2, 4, 4, 5 and me vs Gold 2, 3, 3, and two Unranked (one was diamond 5 last season, one was gold 4 last season) (Remake - ally AFK) Plat 5 (afk), Gold 2, 4, 5 and me vs Gold 1, 3, 3, 4, 4 (Loss) Gold 2, 2, 3, 5 and me vs Plat 5, Gold 2, 2, 4, 5 (loss) Plat 5, Gold 2, 2, 4, and me vs Plat 4, Gold 2, 3, 3, 4

Tallying that up: Allied team: Silver: 1 Gold 5: 4 plus 8xme Gold 4: 4 Gold 3: 6 Gold 2: 10 Gold 1: 1 Plat 5: 4 Plat 4: 0 Plat 3: 2

Enemy team: Silver: 0 Gold 5: 2 Gold 4: 8 Gold 3: 7 Gold 2: 10 Gold 1: 5 Plat 5: 3 Plat 4: 3 Plat 3: 1 And whatever you want to credit the guy that was D5 last season

That's 7 allies ranked Gold 1 or higher, 6 ranked plat 5 or higher vs 12 enemies ranked Gold 1 or higher, 7 ranked plat 5 or higher (not including the last season diamond 5).

Also 17 allies ranked gold 4 or lower, versus only 10 enemies ranked gold 4 or lower (although I suppose 8 of those 17 are me, so it's pretty even here).

As I said, I have no issues with being at Gold 2 MMR and gaining/losing LP accordingly. My issue is that on top of having to play with Gold 2s on average, I'm facing a deficit in my allies vs opponents. My allies should be as good as my opponents in aggregate, shouldn't they? So I go 3W-4L (plus a remake) and even though I net out +27LP it doesn't feel great to play those games. 4 of 8 games are tilted in the enemy's favor even excluding me, only 1 is tilted in my favor, and 3 are reasonably even (only if you exclude my ranking difference).

HigeJun 25, 20161 votes

oh believe me, I know, I climbed from silver 5 in like 2 weeks, up to gold 5 and then the game started stacking chances against me, even then I climbed to my promos twice and once until 99 LP only to get on a loosing streak, in 3 days my MMR sunk so bad that I got demoted to silver 1... and then during my promos on silver 1 I lost 2 games and dodge unintentionally the last one -.- I'm stuck in silver now and even then almost every game is stacked against me as well :S funny thing though, on my last game I carried HARD, even with the odds against me...

AbyssphereJun 26, 20161 votes

I thought it was really difficult to drop from Gold to Silver?

ValyrianBladeJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I thought it was really difficult to drop from Gold to Silver?

It is... you need to drop a full tier below in MMR in order to drop from 5 to 1 (i.e. drop to silver 5 MMR in order to drop from Gold 5 to Silver 1). At least that's what I've always been told. So his experience sounds like it's leaving something out, unless his "losing streak" was around 20 games.

HigeJun 26, 20161 votes

it was indeed more than the loosing streak, I went up and down from 90 something LP to 0 LP a lot during my stay in gold 5, when I was back at 0 LP I would loose 1 and then start winning again, so I'm guessing that this type of float ended up simply sinking me down.

I reached 98 LP twice and 99 LP once, I got to my promos two times as well but were never able to win my matches, either by my own fault at times or, as we all know, some edge games where you get your afk or feeder or rager.

My last games in gold 5 I was at 99 LP and lost... 4? in a row, this brought me down to 11 LP since I was loosing about 22 LP per game then won one and got to 23 LP and then lost 5 in a row, I admitedly was playing Taliyah support but if anything I was the one doing best during those games. The reason for this is that I had lost way too much and my MMR was seriously low so I was being paired with Silver 2 and 3 adcs who aren't willing to use taliyah's strenghts so I ended up loosing.

Thing is, and mark my words, the boosting is real, at some point during my early games in gold 5 I was getting paired against plats, and not only plat 5, I was being matched against plat 2 and 3 whilst in gold 5..................... I was seriously happy because during season 5 I ended in gold 1 and reached plat 5 during pre-season, so I thought I knew a thing or two about the game. My placement matches placed me in silver 5 which was a surprise but I earned 28 LP per win, so naturally I climbed to gold 5 in no time.

Turns out though that my skill against coordinated groups is almost zero so I make mistakes that cost me games and puts my skill level closer to that of a silver player, I also play ranked alone so there's no one pulling me to the other side.

I want to also add that gold 5 is probably the garbage can of league of legends and that's not me being angry, think about it, getting demoted from gold 5 to silver 1 is probably the hardest since everyone's MMR is closer to the middle, so the forgiving range is bigger and you get to stay in gold 5 for longer (it took me about 7 losts in total to get demoted, for a platinum player, all it takes is 3 lost at 0 LP) so you get a lot of silver players who got lucky and climbed and are now stuck in gold 5 :/

Ryzing2DiamondJun 25, 20161 votes

You need to just flow with it. You'll be a better player for it. I've been dealing with this stuff for the past month now, I started Silver 3 and climbed to Plat 4. Even now I usually play against higher tier opponents. If playing against a Plat 1 Riven ever showed me, Rank doesn't mean anything. In the end Stats matter much muuuuch more.

10TicklerJun 25, 20161 votes

The ranked system isn't designed for the games to be fair, or winnable, is the problem

PopppyseedJun 26, 20161 votes

Makes me wonder why we matchmake my MMR instead of just people in your rank. If there worse than you than you should soon climb and not face those people anymore. If there better than you probably dont belong at that rank.

OxyPoroJun 26, 20161 votes

Exacly what I hate about MMR, like being gold 3 and getting matched with a full row of low-mid plat players against a full row of mid plat players WITH PREMADES, I mean what the fuck, if I have the skills to play with these and aim to get there, why does the f*cking system start punishing me before I'm even remotely close.

Bah.

ValyrianBladeJun 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Exacly what I hate about MMR, like being gold 3 and getting matched with a full row of low-mid plat players against a full row of mid plat players WITH PREMADES, I mean what the fuck, if I have the skills to play with these and aim to get there, why does the f*cking system start punishing me before I'm even remotely close.

Bah.

Yup... I'm hoping that if I get through a promo series in a reasonable amount of time I'll jump to gold 3 (skip a division), but I doubt it. It's nice to gain twice as much LP as you're losing, but that doesn't mean anything if you can't win a promo series because you lose 55% of your games due to playing with people more than a full tier ahead of you. I shouldn't have to beat a plat 3/4 lane opponent in order to get promoted from Gold 5!

As mentioned in OP though, I only care about that for promos. For regular games I just want the teams to be even. I don't mind playing against higher ranked opponents, as long as my allies are that rank as well. if there are others with MMR much above their rank, they should be on opposite teams rather than the same (balance the experience advantage I discussed).

BluePhoneJun 26, 20161 votes

Im silver. I don't play ranked but when I did, I was match up against 2 Plat and 1 Diamond who were in ELO HELL. Their MMR was trash and so were they. What sucks is that my team was even more trash and even though I won and brutally killed the enemy adc for fun (4/20 achieved), my MMR dropped. Just know that when u are matched up against higher elo players, their MMR is close to your and they are boosted and about to be demoted. I also gained 50LP for that win no bs.

Then on my Plat 3 account my MMR is way above average (1922) but I get matched up with bronze/silver and against Silver/Gold/Plat which is ridiculous. That's why I play in silver and feel bad or those Plat players.
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