Throughout all of Worlds, Jax has not been picked at all and has been banned in one game.

HateDaddy··7 votes·2,147 views

Between play-in groups, play-in knock-out stage, and now as of day 2 groups being complete, Jax has not been picked once; he was banned in one game during play-in groups. That is well over 50 games between the best teams in the world with different metas, regions and play-styles being largely blended in. If Jax was this dominant, overpowered, no counterplay/no weakness having champion, you would at least see him in competitive play at the highest level. We have a decently large enough sample size at this point.

You want to know what has been played a bunch? Orn, Sion, Shen, Poppy, Gangplank, Cho’Gath and Maokai - all of which are abusing grasp. Of the Conqeuerer champions, only Camille, Aatrox, and Irelia have been played consistently. Again, if Conquerer was so overpowered (and at one point it was; that is no longer the case), you would absolutely see it being used/abused more. In the interest of full disclosure, there have been other champions played consistently that do not use conquerer and were champions not mentioned: Urgot, Ryze and Gragas, none of which used those keystones (urgot has used grasp in a few games tho).

I absolutely acknowledge that champions can be busted in solo queue and low-elo (see Tryndamere, Riven and Nasus), but is Jax really broken? It’s time to start being honest with yourselves, Gameplay-folks. Maybe Jax isn’t the problem, maybe it’s you. I’m not going to bother referencing Jax’s statistics because looking at a champions statistics in isolation without standardizing performances of all top laners, including Jax, and comparing their performances with each other is the only way statistics are going to give us real definitive answers. And quite frankly, that’s work I do not feel like doing and even then, of all the sites out there, their information isn’t going to be as accurate as Riots information; so even if I did do it, it probably wouldn’t be accurate. And I can promise you riot is running these statistical analyses every day. If they haven’t nerfed Jax or conquerer yet, chances are they don’t see any outlier performances with them. And if these things aren’t popping up in the final tournament amongst the best teams in the world with over 50 games played, between these two things, it’s probably most likely that there’s nothing wrong with them.

I now welcome my downvote bath.

8 Comments

SithesisLord7 votes

SoloQ and Pro Play are two different games.

A champion can be a problem in one without being a problem in the other.

Tahm Kench and Ornn were contested picks in Worlds' Play-In.

In SoloQ? Calling them troll picks would be insulting troll picks.

Ryze? 16 bans in Play-In. 10 games played. 80% winrate.

SoloQ? 45.8% winrate. On Diamond+.

And let´s not forget. In Worlds/LCS, there are five pro players with voice comms and orientation vs. five pro players with voice comms and orientation.

In SoloQ it's five monkeys without voice comms, each in their own world vs. five monkeys without voice commbs, each in their own world.

When the entire has a particular strategy/comp in mind during a game and are all of them in agreement, of course champions that enable the efficient execution of such strategy will be priority.

Jax may lack competitive viability, but he is very much broken and deserving of nerfs in SoloQ. And Conqueror is still a mistake.

But i guess Riot was too busy gutting Sejuani and TK harder to do that.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

SoloQ and Pro Play are two different games.

A champion can be a problem in one without being a problem in the other.

Tahm Kench and Ornn were contested picks in Worlds' Play-In.

In SoloQ? Calling them troll picks would be insulting troll picks.

Ryze? 16 bans in Play-In. 10 games played. 80% winrate.

SoloQ? 45.8% winrate. On Diamond+.

And let´s not forget. In Worlds/LCS, there are five pro players with voice comms and orientation vs. five pro players with voice comms and orientation.

In SoloQ it's five monkeys without voice comms, each in their own world vs. five monkeys without voice commbs, each in their own world.

When the entire has a particular strategy/comp in mind during a game and are all of them in agreement, of course champions that enable the efficient execution of such strategy will be priority.

Jax may lack competitive viability, but he is very much broken and deserving of nerfs in SoloQ. And Conqueror is still a mistake.

But i guess Riot was too busy gutting Sejuani and TK harder to do that.

Once again, I acknowledged that SoloQ and competitve will have different styles but there’s a lot to be said when a champion isn’t even being considered in pro play. To say Orn and Tahm are troll picks in solo queue is a bit excessive as well, even with lower win rates- they still offer quite a bit of utility. Nevertheless, we are not in disagreement though: there are cases of champions being strong in competitive and not as consistent in solo queue.

Here’s where you lose me: if solo queue is such a distangled mess and it is, can you blame anything on its own for being broken in such a chaotic environment? If Jax is benefiting from this, what’s stopping most champions from benefiting from this? There isn’t much really. And at that point, you’re nerfing a champion because players suck, not because they’re actually objectively broken (that’s not to say Jax isn’t benefiting from other things, but so are other champions and these things largely offset each other). I’m fine with someone suggesting Jax may be benefiting from trinity too much or he may have a few CD issues, but saying he’s broken and lacks counterplay? Stop it.

And Sej was actually busted. I realize boards has PTSD with this champion, but she was legitimately too strong.

Lastly, why was conquerer a mistake? Because it converts a small portion of your AD damage into true damage? How is grasp any less stupid? Grasp gives lane bullying power to tanks that allow them to sustain and do more damage on top of it. Conquerer isn’t even good in lane, so like grasp, it has a clear trade off. You can’t objectively say it’s a mistake just because you dislike it. In reality it’s not even that highly valued of a keystone anymore. It’s rather ridiculous to obsess about honestly.

chipndip14 votes

Depends:

If you think Riot should balance around solo queue exclusively, nerf Jax.

If you think Riot should balance the way they have been, where they mostly balance for Plat/Diamond and make a few special cases for pros and really bad players, nerf Jax.

If you think Riot should balance League around the fantasy of how it should be played, rather than how solo queue enables us to play it, don't nerf Jax.

They'll probably nerf Jax.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Depends:

If you think Riot should balance around solo queue exclusively, nerf Jax.

If you think Riot should balance the way they have been, where they mostly balance for Plat/Diamond and make a few special cases for pros and really bad players, nerf Jax.

If you think Riot should balance League around the fantasy of how it should be played, rather than how solo queue enables us to play it, don't nerf Jax.

They'll probably nerf Jax.

I said this in a previous post: I’m not denying Jax is strong in solo queue and I’ve hd conversations with other players about this. He is strong and sure he benefits from several things right now but I hardly consider him an abuse case. And for as long as he’s been strong and Riot hasn’t pulled the trigger to nerf him, it suggests to me that they probably don’t see him exceeding his peers in performance by a significant margin. If he is, then by all means. But as of now, based on what i see from him and riots inaction in combination with his lack of competitive viability (which largely does still set the solo queue meta), i don’t really believe he’s broken. Slightly too strong? Totally possible. Broken? Not at all.

Hexs Fortune3 votes

As others have stated, OP should avoid using pro play as basis for determining balance in solo queue.

Quiet Dude2 votes

Who the hell gave OP permission to use logic and reasoning on the gameplay boards? I came in here expecting a knee-jerk rage fueled speech, and instead I got a calm analysis of shit people tend to ignore.

Disappointed

PhearBunny2 votes

Jax is broken from a solo que perspective dude. People don't solo que pick coherent team comps, with voiced synergy. If they did, Jax wouldn't be broken. But they don't, so he is. Even in Diamond solo que he is broken.

I cant argue with it though, I don't think Riot should balance around solo que, I think they should balance around the best, as that is the intended way for the game to be played. Why should Riot balance with the assumption that everyone is hot garbage? that doesn't make sense.

Queš1 votes

his w/r will fall after tonic warp nerfs.Also his top wr is 50-51% even now with arguably broken tonic abuse,but jgl is at 53%(with a total 51-52%).Im sure after tonic nerfs his wr will fall + they can nerf him for jgl.Honestly Jax just does too well in some popular matchups + tonic lets him sustain/run down his opponents too early.

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