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CC Immunity VS Supports

AHarmlessTaco··4 votes·793 views

I really do appreciate Shyvana getting that whole "Uninteruptable" thing added to her ult. I think it will help her tremendously.

I do have a pretty solid concern though. Olaf Malphite Vi Kled MaokaiJarvanIV Hecarim ShyvanaFizz Gangplank Nocturne Fiora item 3814 item 3102

As a support main, I am starting to see more and more champions that can simply ignore CC and I think this may strongly impact Janna ThreshAlistar in the long run. This isn't a QQ, I am just saying that people should really keep in mind that a well timed Monsoon or Flay or Pulverize are pretty key to these champions doing well and a lot of these uninteruptable ults leave very little counterplay.

Does anyone else feel a bit concerned by this? Or am I just being sensitive? Again, I do think Shyvana needs this QoL change, but it worries me a bit.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that this creates some inconsistency for new support players because some dashes can be interrupted while others cannot. It does place a higher burden on them and overtime I might have to go through a checklist of who I can and can't displace/interrupt.

22 Comments

Joman7671 votes

If you include spellshields, sivir nocturne and fiora should be up there but all of them do have counterplay from being focused down to abusing long cooldowns

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Good catch. Won't include Sivir cuuuuuuuz hers is REALLY short and high CD, but the other two are pretty good examples.

Okay... read 2 comments down. Lol, my logic here was bad

Gravy Traín1 votes

Sivir's Spellshield lasts longer than the dash on Shyvana and Malphite's ultimates. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Fair point, I guess what I really mean is that I never try to peel a Sivir as a support in the sense that Sivir's spellshield is a very defensive skill and is used reactively to keep her from being picked. I can run from Sivir and being hit by her does not spell death for my ADC since it should be an equal footed fight at that point. Traditionally, supports try to peel tanks and fighters off their ADC, which is why tanks and fighters having the immunity poses a larger problem to me than an ADC having the spellshield.

Gravy Traín1 votes

I wasn't trying to say Sivir is important to this argument, I guess what I was trying to say is: Why does the 1 second while Shyvana dashes being immuned to cc MATTER? You can just wait until they land, it isn't like Shyvana is going to one shot your adc with ult dash. I understand this isn't just about Shyvana, but a lot of those champions only have immunity DURING a dash ability. It isn't meant to counter you, it is meant to make the game more fun for them because, too be honest, getting locked down is really anti-fun.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Its not the Shyvana Im worried about. Its the fact that I can't stop her from dragging my ADC away and into their team. I can't stop the Yasuo Ult when Malphite ults. By the time Fizz does his combo and I can target him, he's already killed my ADC...

I know skill and positioning are important but It can be a lot to keep track of.

Ravenhale1 votes

It's an Ult though. People get upset when Ults can be cancelled by a common spell (see Yasuo Windwall).

She can still be damaged while getting to her target. She can still be peeled after getting on top of her target. The only issue is if she can "assassinate" her target simply by getting on top of them.

Being a Diver that can't be CC is good. It means she can compete with other Divers.

Being an Assassin that can't be CC is bad. It means she will get picked over real Assassins (which I saw was a concern about the itemization in another thread that used Vi as an example when built Lethality Carry).

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Yeah, those are super valid points. There are, regardless, still nerfs to supports. I simply think that this needs to be acknowledged as it also places a higher burden of knowledge on new players.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TR1 votes

As a support main playing mostly Janna and Nautilus, all the CC immunity means is that you have to wait until after they fly in to use your peel. As long as they don't literally one-shot your carry, which shouldn't be possible unless they're hilariously fed and thus deserve the win, you're usually golden.

Aptest1 votes

also your ADC needs one of those item 1011.

too stupid to get one? drop pants and bend.

Aptest1 votes

I am not concerned. here is why:

(a) Me playing lulu can turn off their character for a bunch of time. If they can do the same to me, only fair. Being able to dodge one of my spells is the same as trowing a stun on me. The only gripe is that the evasion ability is very reliable, compared to my CC.

(b) if CC immunity on damage dealers becomes a commonplace issue, than supports cant peel and game becomes balanced around supports not being able to peel. Result? supports no longer required to guard ADCs. Other roles open to them through inability to def ADCs.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Turning someone off as Lulu does not damage them, ESPECIALLY if trying to turn them off is negated by a shield from an item. Then you just wasted a skill on their item, and believe me, support items do not counter skills of other champions very well.

So what happens to supports? Do they just become useless? What about new players that don't understand who can be peeled and who can't?

Aptest1 votes

(a) Maybe the era has come for my lulu build to have an extra shield popping spell. item 3092 has been long considered gold inefficient but is definitely one way of going about it. Or i can just get item 3030 . Otherwise, if CC is useless, can try a different path: item 3146 / item 3147 just kill them with right clicks instead.

(b) there is already a bunch of support champions who are balanced around being bad at peel. Taric, Bard, Brand... and to some extent also TahmKench (yes he only peels well VS specific opponents). Bard is great at roaming and ganking the other lanes. Tahm supports split push compositions and is an excellent macro play champion. Taric is great with bulldozer compositions and Brand....just burns everything. When "peel" becomes less good, all those varying non-protect-the-adc qualities become better, and the support role becomes more varied because you get to choose between different side-benefits (AOE team fight damage vs Rotation priority) as opposed to focus on one single dimension of usefulness.

reminder: Samsung VS SKT1. game 1: corejj's zyra was 2nd highest damage dealer in team. I.E. he did more damage than the jungler or mid lane or the top lane.

(c) bad players who can't understand they need to buy their team enough time to help through getting a defensive items and maybe not instalocking MissFortune when they see triple assassins on the other team, will just die and lose game for their team. The rest will learn the new rules of the game and figure out how to play an ADC with a item 1011 item in the inventory. (hint: even today it works better than going full damage)

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

a) Yeah, I know there are things supports can do to really hammer down shields. It's just a big concern for me when I really do like Janna and Thresh and all. Having to switch my champs because of stuff like this is understandable, but kinda :'(

b) I actually started playing Brand a lot because I got sick of peeling and not having my adcs do well. I get most damage quite often on him and I find his peel is just fine with Q and Rylais. I guess you are right that CC immunity creates a more contrasted dynamic for picking your supports, but at the same time it hurts people who main specific champs.

c) Again, I agree that peeps are bad. It just hurts me when I want to make a good Janna play or Thresh play and cant because its so hard to time things. GIT GUD isnt a good excuse for them picking a champion after I picked my support and having .5 seconds to respond often. Janna was my go to pick against rengar for that split second R into his leap, and I think that kind of exchange is fine. Thresh E for Rengar R, less awesome for the Rengo.

EDIT: Also, who even buys HT GLP? I just never liked the looks of it.... Idk.

Aptest1 votes

I feel your pain this last game i was laning VS an inferior jinx / sion combo and i was just itching to go trash them but the ADC plays like a complete pussy so what can i do?

As for the wierd ass plastic teddybear... I think aurelian sol buys it in competitive.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Uh, I mean I personally think Jinx has too much safety in her kit for what she does... but thats another topic. You just kinda sit there and look at them funny.

Aptest1 votes

well if the player is inferior and gets easily caught, that is what i meant.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

OH you meant if YOUR adc plays too safe and doesnt help you fight...... YEAHHHHH. Thats what I like about Brand! I can more or less ignore my ADC, then at level 6 I just walk at people and they die. :D

Aptest1 votes

P.S.

let's say you are playing a character that kills someone with a 4 spell rotation. 3 of those spells do about 20% of the total damage and the 4th does 40%. Lets say you have very limited spare damage.

Most assassins fit that description.

Lets now also say your target gets a 10 second spell shield whenever they see you start your attack run. And they get to block 20% of your damage output and you end up being 15% short on damage every time.

spell shield on an item cuts both ways.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I mean, if I start seeing ADC's use item 3814 I might have to reconsider my post. You're right though that spell shields do a lot. HOWEVER, if you see them activate a spellshield, you have the option of waiting for it to come down most of the time.

Aptest1 votes

and miss the opportunity, as they combine shielding with moving into safety.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Its all about that, walk away then walk back from a different angle, approach. ;D

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