riots actually commenting on our concerns with balance

Mody bird·Aug 10, 2015·93 votes·9,398 views

This is odd

67 Comments

MortekaiserAug 10, 20156 votes

explain the morde rework

Vistha KaiAug 10, 201525 votes

CertainlyT doesn't do what CertainlyT does for CertainlyT. CertainlyT does what CertainlyT does because CertainlyT is CertainlyT!

~CertainlyT

BattleBalladeerAug 11, 20151 votes

And also

All rework and no LC$bigplays makes CertainlyT a dull boy, All rework and no LC$bigplays makes CertainlyT a dull boy, All rework and no LC$bigplays makes CertainlyT a dull boy,

VoidgolemAug 10, 20153 votes

Still wondering who has the gigantic AP boner, as long as we're fielding balance questions.

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 10, 201549 votes

I may just be oblivious to something, but is there a particular problem with the recent AP itemization change (outside of maybe Rylai's being a bit crazy)?

Or is it more a question of why AP itemization got adjustments before others (like AD or support itemization)?

Malicious MetalAug 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I may just be oblivious to something, but is there a particular problem with the recent AP itemization change (outside of maybe Rylai's being a bit crazy)?

Or is it more a question of why AP itemization got adjustments before others (like AD or support itemization)?

I actually enjoy the new Rylais on Mordekaiser >:)

Huehuehuehue

Duke AnaxAug 10, 20152 votes

it's good enough that I get it on Soraka despite the health.

TotalJerkAug 11, 20151 votes

Does it proc the 40% slow on her E?

AbyssphereAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Does it proc the 40% slow on her E?

Yep.

ArkenStormAug 11, 20151 votes

same, I build him rylais + liandrys with max CDR for max Hue-ing

item 3065 item 3152 item 3158 item 3116 item 3151 item 3157 if you wanted to know. If you didn't/I told you before(probably both) then sorry

A bad MalzaharAug 10, 201510 votes

Just compare Rylais to Frozen Mallet lol...then you know what's wrong with AP itemization.

PyroAug 10, 201533 votes

Frozen Malet is bad on purpose, though, because if it was good, it would allow bruisers to keep their target slowed pretty much permanently unless they had hard disengage (DAE hate mobility creep?).

Rylai's passive is limited by spellcasts, which are gated by skillshot scope, range, cooldowns and mana.

manbearswineAug 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Frozen Malet is bad on purpose, though, because if it was good, it would allow bruisers to keep their target slowed pretty much permanently unless they had hard disengage (DAE hate mobility creep?).

Rylai's passive is limited by spellcasts, which are gated by skillshot scope, range, cooldowns and mana.

Unless you're evelynn,then you became bullshit.

Voluug13Aug 10, 20157 votes

Evelynn is only one champion.

Also Evelynn is one of the weakest champions currently, Rylai's permaslow doesnt make anything broken, she can stick to her target pretty well regardless.... if she doesnt get blow up before that.

manbearswineAug 10, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Evelynn is only one champion.

Also Evelynn is one of the weakest champions currently, Rylai's permaslow doesnt make anything broken, she can stick to her target pretty well regardless.... if she doesnt get blow up before that.

Yes,"one of the weakest champions" with 38% banrate,sure thing buddy.

N0TY0UAug 10, 20153 votes

I main Evelynn and I can guaranty she isn't weak and she did deserve the nerfs she got in patch 5.14(she was OP pre-nerf) I rarely build item 3116 simply because it isn't OP on Evelynn (delay damage and tankiness and she can stick to people and kite without it). From what I tried so far is at it's strongest on Kayle .

Auz the RipperAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted} From what I tried so far is at it's strongest on .

Singed Cassiopeia

ArkenStormAug 11, 20151 votes

ill say that everyone I've played with bans evelynn because people think she's good then they always suck.

Kuroi86Aug 10, 20152 votes

Also Evelynn is one of the weakest champions currently

Man, I feel bad for you when you run into a good Eve.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 11, 20152 votes

"Lol she's such a bad champion. Wait... How is she able to 1v1 me?! WHAT'S GOING ON?!"

I Main SwainAug 11, 20151 votes

i wouldnt call her one of the weakest champions by any means. a good eve can almost singlehandedly win games

Only Play DariusAug 10, 20151 votes

Actually just played against an AP Evelynn last game. Absolute bullshit.

I was playing Nasus . Just cleansed my wither every time I hit her with it and 40% permaslow every time I tried to Q her.

lDontLiftIcarryAug 11, 20152 votes

evelynn been shit for years. Her AD build is what makes her annoying. AP has been gutted since 2012 with the removal of missle speed on Q. and Change of E to physical making penetration builds literally pointless because her R damage is already shit against people with low base hp even at rank 3.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 11, 20151 votes

Honestly Eve's Q needs to be changed for the sole reason of how it interacts with new Rylais. It's pretty cancerous.

A bad MalzaharAug 10, 20153 votes

So mages can slow their targets permanently but if bruisers do that it is bad? Lol....that is exactly how Riot is thinking...

AbyssphereAug 11, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=A bad Malzahar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wm6ic70U,comment-id=00010000000200000001,timestamp=2015-08-10T21:07:18.013+0000)

So mages can slow their targets permanently but if bruisers do that it is bad? Lol....that is exactly how Riot is thinking...

Most mages can't though. There are only a few who have a Rylai's perma-slow - the DOT crowd (Cass, Malz) and the mega spam crowd (Cass, Eve), with weird ones like Kayle added on because her E is ridiculous. The vast majority of the roster cannot achieve anything close to a perma-slow, and have little use for a permanent slow considering constant application of the slow can burn entire mana pools and for the more bursty character (i.e. the majority of the roster), serves little purpose other than self-peel. I buy it on Syndra when I get a chance and use it only to keep people from chasing me with Qs, which is a pretty healthy use for the investment. Frozen Mallet on the other hand is a genuinely permanent slow, with no concerns such as mana drain, that is bought on a class that INTENDS to do sustained damage as a whole.

Rylai's has a few abuse cases on mages who can keep a genuinely permanent slow and have the sustained damage to make use of it, but Frozen Mallet has nothing BUT abuse cases because it's ALWAYS a permanent slow and everyone who buys it has the sustained damage to make use of it.

VekknaAug 11, 20151 votes

I always want to build Rylai's on Syndra but I just never seem to get around to it. CDR, movement speed, and mana/regen are just so important (and expensive). Not to mention having to rush some defense, especially in Devourer meta.

AbyssphereAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I always want to build Rylai's on but I just never seem to get around to it. CDR, movement speed, and mana/regen are just so important (and expensive). Not to mention having to rush some defense, especially in Devourer meta.

Personally I take it instead of Luden's on her, but I am not sure how optimal that is as I've barely been able to get any games in for the last few patches. At best I would say it's preference which you take, but I imagine Luden's is better. However I'd rather have the easily applied slow from Rylai's than the movespeed on Luden's, really.

VardenSaladAug 11, 20151 votes

Syndra is kinda really frail too, since she isn't a Tear user (for Seraph's shield) or a RoA builder. The health from Rylai's gives you a little bit of breathing room when someone dives the backline in teamfights.

stealthfox94Aug 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Frozen Malet is bad on purpose, though, because if it was good, it would allow bruisers to keep their target slowed pretty much permanently unless they had hard disengage (DAE hate mobility creep?).

Rylai's passive is limited by spellcasts, which are gated by skillshot scope, range, cooldowns and mana.

Frozen Mallet isn't bad.

sp441Aug 10, 20152 votes

While it has a lot of health, it's cost, inaccessible build path, and situational passive keeps it from being bought. I mean, when you have only 6 slots, you can't waste a slot and money on gimmicks.

stealthfox94Aug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

While it has a lot of health, it's cost, inaccessible build path, and situational passive keeps it from being bought. I mean, when you have only 6 slots, you can't waste a slot and money on gimmicks.

While it has a lot of health,

That alone makes it worth while, I don't get why more people don't buy it. It can be good on XinZhao Gnar Darius Volibear Fizz detestably even new Fiora

Blue Moon WolfAug 11, 20151 votes

I'd buy it on Gnar , but item 3078 is just way too expensive to try to buy that and item 3022 and I like the ap and attack speed it gives (since gnar's W deals Magic damage). If it where a bit cheaper I would add it in a heartbeat and to be fair I will get it if the game gets late enough.

Blue Moon WolfAug 11, 20151 votes

Makes sense. less damage on item 3022 to compensate for champs who build lots of attack speed. you can only build so much cooldown compared to attack speed and not many champs have spells with low enough cooldowns to perma-slow blast you to death.

Hyrum GraffAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Frozen Malet is bad on purpose, though, because if it was good, it would allow bruisers to keep their target slowed pretty much permanently unless they had hard disengage (DAE hate mobility creep?).

Rylai's passive is limited by spellcasts, which are gated by skillshot scope, range, cooldowns and mana.

FM is great on my support Sion ;)

Meeks011Aug 11, 20151 votes

Am I the only one who gets Iceborn Gauntlet?

maikokkAug 11, 20151 votes

Cassiopeia Evelynn no mana problems or cooldowns Azir Kayle Fizz Jax applies apell effects with AAs

kile147Aug 11, 20151 votes

You are forgetting Evelynn / Kayle / Vladimir / Karthus / Heimerdinger (and possibly more) all of whom have broken ways to proc the effect of Rylai's. All the champs I listed can keep Rylai's full 40% slow on you permanantly, and all of them are kinda broken when using it. None of these champs will oom applying Rylai's ( lol what's mana) and all of them are either using targeted abilities, or skillshots so spammy you will eventually land one, which means every one after that will land too. Something as simple as a 5 sec cooldown per person would fix it I think, meaning that it applies a debuff to the target that slows them for 1 sec, but sticks around for another 4 seconds and doesn't allow Rylai's to be reapplied to the target (the same could be done for item 3022 ). This would completely not hurt the item for anyone except for people who abuse it to get perma-slows in their kit.

VoidgolemAug 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I may just be oblivious to something, but is there a particular problem with the recent AP itemization change (outside of maybe Rylai's being a bit crazy)?

Or is it more a question of why AP itemization got adjustments before others (like AD or support itemization)?

AP hits a lot more niches and combinations of offensive and defensive stats that just...falls short when looking at other categories. And has consistently done so since the game has launched (heck, we've had options removed!)

I can understand some of it (since just being able to right click dudes to death makes for boring games), but...feels bad, sometimes. Especially with MR being the way it is :S

Kits also come into it: Gettin' a little tired of the 100-0 AP carry packing teamwide CCs that ends with them going support over traditional support picks - and still being pretty functional, if not outright the superior option. That's just frustrating as a guy that plays the traditional supports.

and, thirdly, the apparent necessity of the burst assassin mage person having any CC whatsoever. That's just irritating to play against.

Granted I might also be biased.

hashinshinAug 11, 20151 votes

Mages have answeres to pretty much all problems now. Vktor buying Rylais and perma slowing whoever he wants. Orianna getting Liandry's and murdering tanks and still 1-shotting squishies. Azir getting Liandry's and doing the same. Rumble.

Riot buffed AP itemization which helped the bottom mages get good, but made the top mages OP as all hell. It's like a reverse armor item nerf. The armor nerfs are making the top tanks more managable, but the bottom tanks are becoming useless, and even mid tanks won't be played anymore.

I GANK LANESAug 11, 20151 votes

do you realize how difficult it is to fit rylai's into a typical ap mid build?

you need boots, that's 1. you need a mana item, that's 2 (rod, morello, athene's), if you want to do damage late game you need a void staff, that's 3. you'd be stupid as an ap mid to not pick up death cap, that's 4. is there anyone on the enemy team able to jump on you? good luck, you're dead if you don't have zhonyas. that leaves us with 1 item. sure, rylai's has good survivability, but to swap that for the 10% movement speed (which as an ap mid especially is a huge deal) usually isn't justifiable. also the added burst doesn't hurt.

literally 4 out of those 6 items are absolutely core on ANY AP mid wanting to do strong damage throughout the game. they dont, "have answers to pretty much all problems now."

you pick up liandry's/rylai's on ori, i'm just using her because that's the example you used, you're losing on a lot of different stats, item passives, arm pen, stasis, movement speed, etc. the ap changes aren't how you explain them, at all

ArkenStormAug 11, 20152 votes

also you add in Viktor's hex core and that's a 5th item.

Nami in BushAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I may just be oblivious to something, but is there a particular problem with the recent AP itemization change (outside of maybe Rylai's being a bit crazy)?

Or is it more a question of why AP itemization got adjustments before others (like AD or support itemization)?

I have concerns about Viktor. Honestly, once he hits late game, he lands his Q and it's over. You are deleted. I think he needs less power on his Q and more power on the rest of his kit to balance it out. As a Yasuo main, I go in to outplay the sht out of him, then he lazers down the middle of where I dash and I'm dead. This goes as any champ though.

I GANK LANESAug 11, 20151 votes

his laser is his e

Nami in BushAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

his laser is his e

I'm sorry XD I've played this game too long and have every ratio n shit memorized and get shit mixed up sometimes :P

FragglerocAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I may just be oblivious to something, but is there a particular problem with the recent AP itemization change (outside of maybe Rylai's being a bit crazy)?

Or is it more a question of why AP itemization got adjustments before others (like AD or support itemization)?

Seemed like you just realised there's a Mobility Creep problem within the game. Any changes that effect mobility (such as Rylai's slow) will have huge impact in current game. When you pile that on with the magic dmg increase...

kile147Aug 11, 20151 votes

Well I'm sure part of it is that the AP itemization seems to have made Vlad pretty viable. His winrates don't indicate he's blatantly OP or anything, but I for one was hoping that he was going to be one of those champs that you guys were going to keep weak because of his toxic gameplay. He's the only champion that Riot has actively apologized for making because of how awful he can be, and yet he's actually in a really viable place right now and has a pick rate well above average. Aside from that I think that the AP item change was a step in the right direction though.

My Waifu VanillaAug 12, 20151 votes

My only concern with Rylais is how it interacts with Tibbers on Annie. I really love getting slowed 40% permanently by a moving slow zone. I would be perfectly fine if Rylais applied solely on his autos but the fact it is on his aura makes it incredibly frustrating to deal with.

MiraweaveSep 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I may just be oblivious to something, but is there a particular problem with the recent AP itemization change (outside of maybe Rylai's being a bit crazy)?

Or is it more a question of why AP itemization got adjustments before others (like AD or support itemization)?

I feel like Rylais could do with a "spells with under X base cooldown apply the reduced slow" condition, as well as making AOE abilities that do damage over time proc the reduced slow.