League of Cleavers (part deux)

Wînter Fox·Apr 24, 2015·2 votes·1,408 views

I can't wait for this thing to come out. I can already picture all the faces I'm going to cleave with and a build.

It's going to be glorious.

25 Comments

stuartk11Apr 24, 20153 votes

3000 Gold for item that only provides 40 Attack Damage feels really weird. I'm not saying it's bad, especially with the armour shred. Just saying expensive items that provide low stats don't always work out too good.

5000000000000000Apr 24, 20153 votes

item 3035 item 3135 item 3153

stuartk11Apr 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Last Whisper has much better armour shred than the new Black Cleaver.

Void Staff gives 70 AP, and is in the same vein as Last Whisper.

Blade of the Ruined King has 40% attack speed with damage from the passive and an active that deals even more damage (and a slow. Always useful).

Also I didn't say the item was bad. If you want an item that has low stats and is quite bad, look at Ohmwrecker, Zeke's Herald and Zz'rot's Portal just to name a few from the top of my head.

LarasoApr 24, 20154 votes

It's also a mini-Last Whisper and gives you a considerable amount of health, in addition to 20% CD. I don't think it's fair to say that you're paying 3000 gold for "only 40 attack damage".

stuartk11Apr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's also a mini-Last Whisper and gives you a considerable amount of health, in addition to 20% CD. I don't think it's fair to say that you're paying 3000 gold for "only 40 attack damage".

I didn't exactly complain about it being bad. In fact, I even stated that in the original post. The armour shred is still worse than Last Whisper.

RazorTSApr 24, 20152 votes

low stats? eh u mad? 20% cdr is insane just this gona break things around

Sire HippingtonApr 24, 20153 votes

actually, on both those champs i'd prefer the current BC by far, they prefer offense over defense and the current BC offers far more damage. I'd also built hydra over BT, it allows to shred armor on aoe with BC

Wînter FoxApr 24, 20151 votes

Dude.

20% CDR.
Up to 30% armor shred with +2 seconds time window.
Movement speed passive.

The sheer amount of utility of the new one is mind boggling, and leaves Riven and Jayce open to just straight up build damage with the other 4 items.

And of course you'd get Hydra on Riven too, didn't really think I had to mention that (like Manamune on Jayce).

Sire HippingtonApr 24, 20152 votes

current bc gives neraly the same shred and only 10%less cdr, the ms buff is nice but not as insane for those champs, riven mostly has mobillity from q+e, jayce is about longrange poke and all-in burst, not much need for consistent ms the longer shred duration is mostly good for poke champs with lowish cooldowns(jayce q+e combo still has a to high cd for that), in a direct fight you are able to refresh the stacks anyway. and loosing out 10ad and 10arpen is huge loss in damage vs squishys, and not building from brut costs a strong early powerspike, especially on riven.

Wînter FoxApr 24, 20151 votes

First, that 10% CDR is huge. Right now both champs are pigeon-holed into getting item 3158 and/or CDR runes because of the lack of CDR on AD tems. This reopens their builds into getting whatever runes or boots they want.

Second, mobility is crucial on any squishy melee champion that goes all in - there can't be enough of it. Riven can rely on the Rage passive to get into and out of fights instead of wasting Q and E just for mobility. Picking the right moment to use her E is literally life or death. The MS for Jayce will be amazing for poking with W in Cannon, and adding onto his passive for going in Hammer. MS and CDR is what makes Jayce feel way more fluid.

Poke champ with lowish cooldowns? You just described Jayce with his W mid to late game.

10 AD and 10 Arpen is not that big of a deal considering all of the benefits. So it will take Riven 3.2 seconds to wreck an ADC instead of 3. The lack of Brutalizer is really the only negative I could see, but at least it opens up her build path to other options instead of forcing a Brut rush.

ProfDrDeathApr 24, 20151 votes

Downsides of new BC:

Less powerful build path (Brutalizer is extremely strong as an item. Phage is not nearly as powerful if you can't make full use of the passive - for example as Riven).
Still high cost (3000 gold)

I think the new BC is going to be mostly fine - it trades a strong completed item for being less powerful during the item's building stages.

ElisaiApr 24, 20152 votes

I still don't understand why they could just do Brute and a Phage to the mix.

SIaytonApr 24, 20151 votes

That would have made a lot more sense. Seems odd to only have brut build into ghostblade.

ProfDrDeathApr 24, 20151 votes

Because it is not supposed to give flat ArPen on top of the %-Arpen.

Also, it is supposed to be a TANKY ad item, not a tanky AD item.

LilxPaprikaApr 24, 20151 votes

if riven autos a creep then proceeds to gap close with q she will be fast. or even harder to catch.

X8ViEhkPS0Apr 24, 20151 votes

It's a rather odd build path. The current build path is pretty fantastic having brutalizer. The new cleaver with no early armor pen I'd rather buy Last Whisper over it. And if I were to build more armor pen It would just be Ghostblade because of brutalizer.

Wînter FoxApr 25, 20151 votes

So really item 3134 lovers are really the only ones upset about this.

X8ViEhkPS0Apr 25, 20151 votes

Pretty much. Not going to buy a phage or kindlegem when I want to itemize for armor pen.

SIaytonApr 24, 20151 votes

Can't wait to get this + Furor enchant and have Gnar's W passive on every champion whenever I hit someone lol

RazorTSApr 24, 20151 votes

Im gona play my off xin with it, max cdr on him is awesome stickiness will be insane, on other hand think about champs like Zed does this dude really need this power boost?

ProfDrDeathApr 24, 20152 votes

One of Zed's powerspikes comes from Brutalizer, which is no longer in the build path. I'd honestly be surprised if it becomes more than a luxury item on him.

Darth Pixy MisaApr 24, 20151 votes

Will we see a lot of Lee Sin builds like this now?

LeeSin summoner 4 summoner 11 item 3717 item 3074 item 3071 item 3143 item 3111 item 3035

summoner 4 summoner 11 item 3718 item 3074 item 3071 item 3143 item 3111 item 3035

shalecApr 24, 20152 votes

No.

Shadow GilgameshApr 24, 20151 votes

Welcome to a new age of Garen and MonkeyKing overlords.

Illâoi Evê SiônApr 25, 20151 votes

Is only the 60 Movement Speed halved for ranged champions? Because it says '[...] this Movement Speed [...]'. Does anyone know? Because I sure as hell don't want any Marksmen picking this up. It would be the end.