Oh so assassins need reaction time,

Succubús GF·Nov 16, 2017·97 votes·5,407 views

I.E Eve, lb, etc basically all of the aps, need it. But shadow assassin kayn can annihilate you in less than 3 seconds, zed can also, talon also can. 10/10 riot balance team I love it

199 Comments

ŚhunpoNov 16, 201774 votes

Shadow Kayn can annihilate you in less than half a second* Same to Zed and Talon.

The AD assassins have retained their burst and yet the APs are forced to suffer.

AhrisNov 16, 201743 votes

{quoted}

Shadow Kayn can annihilate you in less than half a second* Same to Zed and Talon.

The AD assassins have retained their burst and yet the APs are forced to suffer.

because ap is for some reason considered more toxic than an assassin who has 1:1 AD ratio on their autos that is never on cd.

edit: meaning if an apc mage mess up their combo they are most likely dead while ad assassin missing their stuff will always result in a kill anyway.

ShaydroxNov 16, 20179 votes

Argument can be turned around as well though. AP assassin when behind has no way to burst a target down, AD assassins can find a way if they manage to weave autoattacks in. Which is what some AD assassins had to do seasons ago......unfortunately that's no longer the case. 2 spells plus 1 AA and it's over

Troll for TrumpNov 16, 20173 votes

Zed has always been sorta slow. Talon's burst is wayyy slower and conditional than he was before the rework. Kayn yeah but you get to see him coming with E; he has to flank you, and can't just use his abilities in the middle of the teamfight Fizz too much power to ulti LB became a mage, Riot recognized that they messed up with her Eve has permastealth, that's a REALLY powerful ganking tool. And she's a jungler for ease of roam. Kat got faster burst, but a higher skill floor Akali got better burst, and a much better laning phase, though idk if the speed changed Ekko... has always been a bad assassin. I think he's a skirmisher still? Zix just varies based on how fed he is Rengar as well Kass can kill really fast but needs ramp-up Pseudo assassins can burst really fast too, such as lethality J4, Panth, Wuk, Jayce, and Noc, some of them even faster than actual assassins

ŚhunpoNov 16, 201718 votes

{quoted}

Zed has always been sorta slow. Talon's burst is wayyy slower and conditional than he was before the rework. Kayn yeah but you get to see him coming with E; he has to flank you, and can't just use his abilities in the middle of the teamfight Fizz too much power to ulti LB became a mage, Riot recognized that they messed up with her Eve has permastealth, that's a REALLY powerful ganking tool. And she's a jungler for ease of roam. Kat got faster burst, but a higher skill floor Akali got better burst, and a much better laning phase, though idk if the speed changed Ekko... has always been a bad assassin. I think he's a skirmisher still? Zix just varies based on how fed he is Rengar as well Kass can kill really fast but needs ramp-up Pseudo assassins can burst really fast too, such as lethality J4, Panth, Wuk, Jayce, and Noc, some of them even faster than actual assassins

Kat did not get faster burst, that is a flat out lie.

Akali got better burst for the cost of speed in casting her ultimate.

Ekko is NOT a bad assassin at all, he deals a LOT of damage once he completes 1-2 items.

K6 does not vary on how fed he is, he just needs level 6+1 lethality item to start rolling.

Talon's burst is honestly the same if you combo properly

Zed's is hardly slow when fed.

An Undead bratNov 16, 20172 votes

I bet you have never been clicked on by Kat player with Gunblade active, E and Q

RavenMagusNov 16, 20178 votes

Still needs the dagger to land. Pretty much impossible to kill someone with just E Q auto gunblade without a dagger proc.

Not a lot of time to react, but still way more than old kat.

Old kat = lategame you flash shunpo R the enemy adc, they die before they can react and you win the game.

Troll for TrumpNov 17, 20171 votes

No, old kat couldn't do anything in lane, and, since her basic abilities were so bad, she had to ult during teamfights, which ended up being really useless.

She still mostly relies on ults for teamfights now, but at least she can do something without it.

Her burst without ult, for sure, is better now than before

RavenMagusNov 17, 20171 votes

You just had to farm for lategame. Old kat was guaranteed late game win if you could survive the early game. Her ult was so insane it deleted squishies pretty much instantly once you had AP.

She's pretty much the opposite now. She's a whole lot better early game and she's a huge threat in the early laning phase, but she doesn't have the automatic teamfight win she used to.

Troll for TrumpNov 17, 20174 votes

I thought her lategame was shit, especially at higher elos, because they knew how to cc her. Like a yi kinda effect

Serika ZeroNov 16, 20172 votes

Lets see how much damage that does then, shall we? Q: 75 / 105 / 135 / 165 / 195 (+ 30% AP) so, lets assume lv 5 195 damage

E: 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 / 90 (+ 50% AD) (+ 25% AP) so, lets assume lv 5 as well 90 damage

Gunblade: 175 - 250 (based on level) (+ 30% AP) so, lets assume 250.

total damage: 535

now, lets add in the ap scaling. 30+25+30 = 85% ap (so, 0.85 when doing maths) And 50% ad (or 0.5).

Lets assume kata has 100 AD. Which would mean, 50 damage from that ad.

Added on 535 = 585 damage.

And now the AP part, lets assume she has 700 ap :) 700 multiplied by 0.85 = 595

And lets add it up. 585 + 595 = 1180.

And she automatically does an extra auto attack after E. So, lets add that 100 ad up. 1280.

And there's electrocute. 50 - 220 (based on level) (+ 50% bonus AD) (+ 30% AP) lets take 220 +50 from ad

210 from 700ap. Total 220+260=480

1280 + 480 = 1760 damage from those 3.

And like Cait, would have HEALTH 1811 at lv 17. Without buying a single MR item and assumeing kata can do true damage to her. She still will not die in a E gunblade Q combo.

Actually, most of Katarina's damage comes from E on a target where the dagger in on the ground. Or E on a target, gunblade and W, and hitting the target with your W dagger, while you Q them and this gives you a free Q dagger proc if they keep running in the same direction.

And there's usually a delay until that W touches the ground. Which is why, the main counterplay you hear people in higher elo streaming when facing a katarina is: don't walk over her daggers.

edit: this is the damage her daggers do: dealing 75 - 287 (based on level) (+ 100% bonus AD) (+ 55 / 70 / 85 / 100% AP)

As you can see, its higher than E+Q combined in terms of scaling ;) I hope this helps ^^

DisembarkNov 16, 20171 votes

Gunblade slow is too potent to avoid daggers most of the time (their spin range is super long).

Plus she has an ulti.

Serika ZeroNov 16, 20172 votes

my point was to debunk the idea that just EQ gunblade is enough for kata to get a kill. nowhere in the person i replayed to is "R" or "Daggers", nor is in my post barring the end of it (where i point out how strong those are)

An Undead bratNov 16, 20171 votes

Yeah you definitely never faced her like that. I don't know how it's possible and I'm surprised and pissed off every time it happens, but no, she LITERALLY ONLY Q E Gunblades you and you are dead before the Q dagger drops. And she's 0/5. And has like half of the second item.

And these comparisons are always misleading since you are never actually full health in real game unless standing in the fountain.

Serika ZeroNov 16, 20172 votes

i mained kata together with akali last season ;)

she doesn't do that, which was my entire point... backed up by math...

PoskeNov 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So many mistakes

Zed has always been sorta slow.

If he has duskblade there is no delay

Talon's burst is wayyy slower and conditional than he was before the rework.

Really isnt

Kayn yeah but you get to see him coming with E; he has to flank you, and can't just use his abilities in the middle of the teamfight

This is true

Fizz too much power to ulti

Fizz had higher burst potentional before

LB became a mage, Riot recognized that they messed up with her

She is an Assassin if she feels like a mage to you or anyone playing her that player is straight up garbage. Good le blancs ll consistently one shot players from 1000 range in 0.4 seconds. Download any of my 1000 last lb games thats what you ll see

Eve has permastealth, that's a REALLY powerful ganking tool. And she's a jungler for ease of roam.

Her one shoting is extremly good. Idk why people percieve her as weak

Kat got faster burst, but a higher skill floor

How is delayed W faster burst, Or higher cast time on E faster burst?

Akali got better burst, and a much better laning phase, though idk if the speed changed

Akali has good consistent burst but it aint high.

Ekko... has always been a bad assassin. I think he's a skirmisher still?

Apart from release ekko this is true

Zix just varies based on how fed he is

By fed you mean 1,0,0 and knowing basic combos

Rengar as well

Well he is more reliant on being fed then kha i ll give you that

Kass can kill really fast but needs ramp-up

true .. or just w8 like minute 20

Pseudo assassins can burst really fast too, such as lethality J4, Panth, Wuk, Jayce, and Noc, some of them even faster than actual assassins

True

Troll for TrumpNov 17, 20171 votes

If he has duskblade there is no delay

When the hell is he going to run up to you, slap you with an auto attack, and then kill you off duskblade.

He will either kill you just with his basic abilities when he's really fed, or, more commonly, he'll ult you. His ult cast time is really slow, for an assassin. Now, after he gets out of the ult, he can kill you really quickly, but the cast time is a lot of time to prepare, relative to other assassins.

Really isnt

Point and click 700 range blink isn't less conditional than a 550m dash? He can roam more, but his burst combo is slower. He does more dmg overall and in extended trades, but it's not as fast. His W didn't have the delay time, and his Q was an aa auto-reset, so he wouldn't need the W delay set-up, the vaulting, or even youmuus (Youmuus is really helpful to his kit, but, since it isn't actually part of his kit, it can't be included when comparing the kits)

Fizz had higher burst potentional before

I'm not sure about that, but I haven't seen enough of AP fizz in the past to compare. Did see a lot of the annoying tank fizz. He had a faster burst time before the rework, yeah.

She is an Assassin if she feels like a mage to you or anyone playing her that player is straight up garbage. Good le blancs ll consistently one shot players from 1000 range in 0.4 seconds. Download any of my 1000 last lb games thats what you ll see

That's what Riot said, not me, and that's why they're reworking her. Personally, playing as and against her, I know for sure her burst time and combo requires more set-up. She has a lot more counterplay than she did before with her comboes.

Her one shoting is extremly good. Idk why people percieve her as weak

Yeah, think she's top 5 for jg winrates too

How is delayed W faster burst, Or higher cast time on E faster burst? First of all, I'll parrot your LB argument with kata. Kata, like LB, had her skill ceiling increased. If you're one of the pro Kata's, the delay is near nothing. You (and other people) are right, her burst time is slower and requires more set-up in the end. She does a LOT more dmg with her basic abilities and passive procs, but it is slower; I was wrong.

Akali has good consistent burst but it aint high.

It's higher than before the rework, though (except that one season where she was busted).

Apart from release ekko this is true

Yeah, loved to play as release ekko, and tank ekko was really annoying. Still think the reliance on passive kills him.

By fed you mean 1,0,0 and knowing basic combos

Even when 1/0/0, I don't see him shitting on top laners at that time. I don't see him ganking bot at that KDA usually, because he's not fed enough to kill them without isolation damage. He can kill mid laners and the enemy jglers with ease. Right now, he's overtuned, as well. But usually, he needs to be fed to kill everyone, where as Talon doesn't need to be as fed.

true .. or just w8 like minute 20

See, that's what's supposed to happen, but doesn't. His winrate reaches it's minimum from 20-30 min, increases at 30-40 min, then decreases again, like a roller coaster. Love playing as the guy, but he probably needs some looking at. And I know most people don't like playing against him.

PoskeNov 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

When the hell is he going to run up to you, slap you with an auto attack, and then kill you off duskblade.

Do you watch LL stylish? Never seen WEQWAA combo from 100>0? If he has duskblade he can do taht specially with armor being gutted

Point and click 700 range blink isn't less conditional than a 550m dash? He can roam more, but his burst combo is slower. He does more dmg overall and in extended trades, but it's not as fast. His W didn't have the delay time, and his Q was an aa auto-reset, so he wouldn't need the W delay set-up, the vaulting, or even youmuus (Youmuus is really helpful to his kit, but, since it isn't actually part of his kit, it can't be included when comparing the kits)

Old talon had no damage but had burst. you would rarely see him snowball due to that. His Q is still autoattack resset

That's what Riot said, not me, and that's why they're reworking her. Personally, playing as and against her, I know for sure her burst time and combo requires more set-up. She has a lot more counterplay than she did before with her comboes.

Riot also called AD carries marskman who calls them that way?. Le blanc is an assassin in my hands atleast. Honestly unless I am playing her she is delayed, not my fault everyone is building her incorrect and suck with her

Yeah, think she's top 5 for jg winrates too First of all, I'll parrot your LB argument with kata. Kata, like LB, had her skill ceiling increased. If you're one of the pro Kata's, the delay is near nothing. You (and other people) are right, her burst time is slower and requires more set-up in the end. She does a LOT more dmg with her basic abilities and passive procs, but it is slower; I was wrong.

There is tehnicly a one shot combo. Wait in brush. Setup W in advance. Use Q>GUNBLADE>E on R if required and it ll one shot

She doesnt nesserly do more damage. But she can actually 1vs1 more consistently due to added jumps auto ressets. Which is something old kata sucked at

It's higher than before the rework, though (except that one season where she was busted).

Yeah, loved to play as release ekko, and tank ekko was really annoying. Still think the reliance on passive kills him.

Ekko is to delayed for high elo Q on the way back will never hit good players. Worst case scenario they can build swifties W requires you to use it from FOG. And even then once it appears enemy has just enough time to exit it R legit never hits anything. Idk what else to say, He goes 4 seconds back in time..... XD great to bad he dies if he is in a teamfight in 2 seconds so the moments never match (But this is mainly due to ADC having to much damage)

Even when 1/0/0, I don't see him shitting on top laners at that time. I don't see him ganking bot at that KDA usually, because he's not fed enough to kill them without isolation damage. He can kill mid laners and the enemy jglers with ease. Right now, he's overtuned, as well. But usually, he needs to be fed to kill everyone, where as Talon doesn't need to be as fed.

False if anything its the opposite. Kha is one of the best 1vs1 duelists in the game if not the best

Kha zix combo (With dark harvest, Duskblade) can Aerial one shot you

W>E>Q>AA > Dead

See, that's what's supposed to happen, but doesn't. His winrate reaches it's minimum from 20-30 min, increases at 30-40 min, then decreases again, like a roller coaster. Love playing as the guy, but he probably needs some looking at. And I know most people don't like playing against him.

Kassadin is quite known for not being able to oneshot till certain minute

Kassadin has no bad matchups also

Talon? I just had talon getting shit on by Aery kassadin
Zed same he ll get shit on despite being ad
Lucian works the best but it is nothing impressive specially due to lucian nerfs, Aery poke
Malzahar is another top tier cancer incarnation with no bad matchups so yes perhaps he can beat him
Any ap champ loses

In a nutshell

You cant beat kassadin if you are ap champion
If you are melee AD champion you are still fked because now he can W you. Its surprising how wierd this is..
If you are ranged AD champion you have a chance

And when I say they lose. They all know they ll be outscalled by kassadin but cant bully him without being bullied harder..

1 q and passive negate all the poke while he chunk for 150+

Both kassadin and kha were pick or ban before ADC overbuffs

Troll for TrumpNov 18, 20172 votes

Do you watch LL stylish? Never seen WEQWAA combo from 100>0? If he has duskblade he can do taht specially with armor being gutted

don't use anecdotes
That sounds like he's literally running at you

Old talon had no damage but had burst. you would rarely see him snowball due to that. His Q is still autoattack resset

Yeah, but the point is his burst window got increased, yeah? His Q isn't really a 2nd auto like old Talon Q or current Dar W, it has an annoying cast time.

Riot also called AD carries marskman who calls them that way?. Le blanc is an assassin in my hands atleast. Honestly unless I am playing her she is delayed, not my fault everyone is building her incorrect and suck with her

ADC and marksman are synonomous; mage and assassin are not.

False if anything its the opposite. Kha is one of the best 1vs1 duelists in the game if not the best

Kha zix combo (With dark harvest, Duskblade) can Aerial one shot you

W>E>Q>AA > Dead

I honestly don't see that, but it's probably because I play more tanky champs. I'll assume you're right.

Kassadin

Kassadin was not pick-or-ban. He's a good anti-mage, but he wasn't THAT meta. You can see that with playrate over time.

Kassadin should get shat on by Talon, from experience on both ends. Sounds like a rly shitty Talon; also, anecdotes are poor evidence.

Zed shouldn't dominate kass as hard, but definitely should win the lane.

Not all AP champs lose to Kass, though. Malz is still an anti-assassin, Heimer prob could win, LB/kata could at least dominate early

Whenever I see kassadin get fed early, it's almost always because the laner underestimates his dmg and gets too close.

AzadetheNov 17, 20172 votes

Eve's perception of weakness is based on how hard her team makes her carry, and her limited effect on preventing a lane push/farming in lanes. If a team snowballs an opponent team 24/3 while Eve has the three kills, Eve has the worst recovery kit in the game to compensate such a comeback. She loses her jungle, and can't effectively farm in lane (about 4-5 cs per then long cooldown). She has trouble clearing a lane push as well, and results in many games where she's the only one alive, and is forced to just watch as the other team 5 man pushes an entire lane, unless she wants to blow an ult, which might clear 1 wave of minions and save the turret for about 10 seconds until the next wave arrives.

Furthermore, certain team compositions are just crazily effective at shutting Eve down, even after new runes. Annie, Quinn, Cho gath, Malhazar, Zac, Vayne, Leona, Morgana, all soundly shut her down as to many others. Even Sona shuts her down. Twitch Outruns her, and has a superior stealth that doesn't break even if you hit him with skills. Karma outruns and out defends vs her to the point she will likely NEVER kill Karma.

I can go 10/0/5 in the first 13 minutes of Evelynn, and still have little to no effect on the game, if they have those champs, because she has no actual point to enter a fight vs their oppressive low cooldown shutdowns/escape prevention. And because she has no real lane push, she sucks at split pushing, and relies on teammates for objectives (baron literally melts her; drake is risky solo). (She is literally the ONLY jungler I know who almost dies in 3 hits at Baron).

She's a bit better with new runes and the 1.5 sec Demon shade adjustment, but her weaknesses are still visible. As long as champ revive cycles are based on level and not time surpassed, just being able to kill people won't have much of an impact, because late game that falls off.

NevrankroatonNov 16, 201721 votes

A serious question, no flame or taunting.

Did you ever fight a good diana? Or even an evelyn toward mid game?

Because I can ASSURE you for playing them that I delete squishy between 0,5 and 1,3 second depending of how I am in the game.

Evelyn mid/late game is ABSURD damage Wise, her empowered E while in stealth is one of the biggest nuke in the game. Diana is more stuff dépendent but a slightly ahead (and I mean this "SLIGHTLY", just one kill and one assist ahead) diana MURDER every squishy with the passion of a burning sun on an ice cream during august.

Also, while Kat is not especially a "1 sec death" assassin, she is still extremely strong and a snowball monster.

Let's not talk about Leblanc, Leblanc can still deal 80% of a squishy life in an easy trade with stuff and her damage input is obscene still.

I feel AD assassin offense is just that they seem to scale easier than AP assassin and their early game is very often stronger (or just strong).

But AP assassin are strong, the only one that seem truly delayed and 'weaker' for me is Fizz.

.... But I am okay with Fizz never being viable and Fizz player rooting in the depth of the abyss WHERE THEY BELONG YOUGODDAMN "USE E" PLAYERRANDOMDODGEASS inherent screaming

ThryaleNov 16, 20172 votes

yes, but assassin's aren't supposed to have a strong early game, it's one of their inherent flaws of being an assassin, because it makes up for their burst power in the mid-late game.

the fact that ad assassin's have such easy early games due to their itemization allowing for easier farming is what makes them such a menace when coupled with their powerful burst

PROJECT KatarìnaNov 17, 20173 votes

^^^^ this guy knows his shit, i still get Vietnam flashbacks whenever im in lane against leblanc

EvenNov 16, 201713 votes

I agree, also there are much more options for MR on squishy ad/ap champions compared to armor.

Armor options for damage dealers: item 3026 item 3157 Magic Resist options for damage dealers: item 3102 item 3001 item 3156 item 3139

Succubús GFNov 16, 20176 votes

Not even g.a bc no ap is going to buy that

Chembaron YamadaNov 16, 20172 votes

Abysmal Mask is a tank item, though. Doesn't provide any AP whatsoever.

If you count that in, then armor has more options as well: item 3742 item 3025

Jet SettNov 16, 20172 votes

It provides magic damage by making your damage 10% stronger.

Chembaron YamadaNov 16, 20172 votes

Yes, but then you should count these other items as well. Deadman's Plate provides physical damage on AA and Iceborn Gauntlet has the spellblade effect, which is damage as well.

LordGeovanniNov 16, 20172 votes

woo hoo viable damage dealing for magic damage item 3091 (this isnt even viable on bruisers and tanks who it is made for.

RevaliNov 16, 20179 votes

Zeds combo ( if your ulting) isn't fast, a giant red X (Is it red or black? he's got so many skins I don't know the actual color for his classic skin) appears on his target

Talons burst is very, very high but honestly he kinda has a limited range aside from his deceptive w outward hitbox

shadow assassin kayn is pretty lul in terms of burst, I guess his tradeoff is his mobility is honestly really lackluster since he doesn't have any real in combat mobility like everyone else.

I think the reason aps tend to feel bad is as someone said, lack of weaving.

there's still one ap assassin that lacks counterplay if you really wanna play them, and kinda shits on talon/zed

this pretty little princess. Diana

Wukong AirlinesNov 16, 20178 votes

Yeah the thing is Talon is "Passive" dependent. He's still hard to manage in teamfights because of supports heals + shields + tanks surrounding those ADCs.

You think Talon's damage is broken? Check his Midlane spot right now compared to those mages. droped from top 10 to No.27.

dominusxNov 16, 20173 votes

Assasins ? you mean marksmen

PaffWasTakenNov 16, 20173 votes

I agree that anything AD have an advantage compaired to any AP champs, but why would you take Shadow Kayn as an example? While he does some huge amounts of damage, it's not his victims who melts in less than 3 seconds: he is the one who melts after 2

MuzétNov 16, 20171 votes

But shadow assassin kayn can annihilate you in less than 3 seconds, zed can also, talon also can.

I won't defend Zed or Talon. SInce I can't play them - specially Talon. But as for Kayn, he tells you that he'll come from a certain angle - when he uses his E - so you should be ready to welcome him. I know that he can be pretty difficult sometimes when you're in the teamfight started. But if he gets in at the time you were the most vulnerable he plays it well that's it. Just like all assassins his damage are on his basic abilities, but unlike the others, his R isn't there to deal damage but to get survivability. It isn't an execute nor some way to engage. This is why, it feels like he strips you down in a blink of an eye: because his damage are concentrated on his basic abilities.

Succubús GFNov 16, 20175 votes

My point is there is no reaction time. I am assuming you have played shadow assassin. Hell, boosters even ADMIT that it is so god damn easy to win with s.a If you have ever been 1 shot by w,q in that rotation with maybe 1 aa. Maybe if most generous 1 level behind. Then you would understand why it is bullshit. People cried and cried about how s,a needed buffs and now he is broke. FFS blade's reach is 120% bonus ad. like do you even understand that?

I know that he can be pretty difficult sometimes when you're in the teamfight started. But if he gets in at the time you were the most vulnerable he plays it well that's it.

His r does a ton of damage but ok

, his R isn't there to deal damage but to get survivability

MuzétNov 16, 20171 votes

My point is there is no reaction time.

There is reaction time before he gets on you simple because he doesn't have mobility as other assassins do. His mobility is tied to his damage (Q) and to a long cd (E). Whereas other (at least most assassins) got their mobility on a peculiar ability.

If you have ever been 1 shot by w,q in that rotation with maybe 1 aa. Maybe if most generous 1 level behind. Then you would understand why it is bullshit. People cried and cried about how s,a needed buffs and now he is broke. FFS blade's reach is 120% bonus ad. like do you even understand that?

I have been one shot and I've done one shot. I saw both side. And by the way. Did you know? The only damage buff he received was on his R because playing SA didn't give any feeling on ult.

His r does a ton of damage but ok His R still deals less damage than Zed, Talon's on the other hand after checking his kit on practice tool damage are concentrated on his Q and passive. His R is mostly giving him survivability too. But yeah, Kayn will deal more damage than talon with taking into account ult only. Yet, as I stated it's for survivability more than damage. Why? Simply because as Kayn you won't go R-in R-Out straight away. You usually wait your cooldowns. This is why it isn't there to deal damage. Survivability is the key there. If you ever need to nerf SA I'll agree to nerf a bit his ratio on ult (but not revert back to release value just reduce it a bit)

Succubús GFNov 16, 20174 votes

What "mobility " does eve have? I daresay his q is quite spammable so it isn't like he is this obsolete sion walking around

There is reaction time before he gets on you simple because he doesn't have mobility as other assassins do. His mobility is tied to his damage (Q) and to a long cd (E). Whereas other (at least most assassins) got their mobility on a peculiar ability.

"his ult doesn't do damage" "they buffed his ult" which is it, pick one. So you know that his burst is instant? Okay. ?Just checking

I have been one shot and I've done one shot. I saw both side. And by the way. Did you know? The only damage buff he received was on his R because playing SA didn't give any feeling on ult.

MuzétNov 16, 20171 votes

"his ult doesn't do damage"

Please quote where I said so. Please quote me. I'm waiting.

"they buffed his ult" which is it, pick one. So you know that his burst is instant? Okay. ?Just checking

Invalid until you quote me saying that his R doesn't do damage. And his burst on squishy doesn't come from R. Just saying.

Succubús GFNov 16, 20173 votes

Here ya go mr blind~

his R isn't there to deal damage but to get survivability

ShablagooNov 16, 20171 votes

You are complaining about the wrong thing. It's duskblade not the champions, all those champions have a delay. The thing is delays do not work on them either. Riot noticed they messed up that is why they added db, if they did it for ap assassins though it would really break them. You see the reason delayed dmg does not work is it needs to be to strong or too weak which leaves no room for balance. LB is literally the perfect example, she can't be balanced either op or useless. Talon is an example too, especially with db coming in and his lvl two cheese. Delays do not work, it is conditional dmg does however. That is why,before db, kha was balanced.

Infinite SaughtNov 16, 20172 votes

No they don't. Look at Kha'Zix and Rengar. Zed has no delays besides ultimate, and during that delay he's untargetable.

ZedUsanGovosNov 16, 20171 votes

Except he's untargetable for like... .75 seconds. Out of three seconds for the pop. That's a whole other 2.25 seconds you have before the delay where you can CC him, prevent damage, or at least reduce it, and/or get shielded by your support or yourself (a la Lux W and/or Barrier). The average human reaction time is ~.25 seconds. You have no excuse. He also has another .5 seconds before he can return to his R shadow.

Infinite SaughtNov 16, 20174 votes

Do you know how quick his main damage combo is? It's definitely not 3 seconds. It's somewhere in the ballpark of <.25s. E is instant. Q has a slight windup but is basically instant. W shadow is practically instantly.

So riddle me this, if it can easily be dealt with, why doesn't have a 0% winrate? Your argument of "it can be mitigated or stopped" can be realistically applied to any Assassin. Zed has one of the least amount of worries of all Assassins whether or not his target dies. The problem with the other Assassins, namely the AP Assassins implied in this thread, is that they also have to wait on some arbitrarily silly mechanic that takes much more time to actually pull off as opposed to Zed (and by extension, Kha, Rengar, and Talon). Zed doesn't have to stay in the fray. Katarina, Fizz, Leblanc, Ekko, and Akali all have to wait a certain amount of time where they'll inevitably get blown up by the late game ADC because #Counterplay.

DaNinadNov 16, 20171 votes

All of zeds skills are dodgeable though

ParoeNov 16, 20171 votes

@thread

"AP champions and itemization are so much better than AD!" - reddit.

AD assassins and AP assassins are balanced differently. AD assassins are instant and designed to go in, pop the carry, and get out. AP assassins are delayed damage and designed to go in and out and damage or pop high priority targets.

Basaically AP assassins are held to the ekko standard; skirmishers.

An Undead bratNov 16, 201710 votes

You either described them the same with AP being the shittier version of AD, or you described AP as completely worthless.

Weiss GuertenaNov 16, 20173 votes

To be honest neither of those two is far from truth.

Tzuyu Is My BiasNov 16, 20171 votes

Also, close to no AP assassin with escape, deals as much reliable burst damage as the AD assassins with escape. Basically the only AP assassin who is capable of popping a target as quickly and reliably as an AD assassin is Diana, but she has no escape and dies with the target too.