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Lee Sin isn't fun to play

Divewing··40 votes·1,860 views

He is just too forgiving. You get caught in the enemy jungle and you for once CANNOT 1V1? 5 dashes ward hops away. You get caught at any point past level 6, hope you have at least 4 seconds of hard cc or youre getting a kick to the face and he will live. HOW DO YOU PUNISH LEE SIN'S MISTAKES?! HIS KIT IS ALL KINDS OF TOXIC. Off the top of my head I can think of Jax Katarina being ward hoppers, but why don't they build SS? Probably because they have to commit something to their damage. 200% AD SCALING, AD SCALING MAGIC DAMAGE. I've had it with lee sins not getting the punishments they deserve, remove ward hopping, or put the ward hop on a disgusting long cooldown so the next time a Lee Sin invades when he should be staying in his own fucking jungle, he gets exactly what he deserves. So Riot, stop saying lee sin is fun to play because that's wrong, he is safe to play and forgives mistakes that people really should be punished for.

Note: I'm not saying he needs damage nerfs etc, but what I am saying is his solo mobility needs to be looked at, If he is going to have 2 dashes on such low cooldowns because it's for teamfighting, don't let them be the same when hes alone. Also; what the hell is his base movespeed????

26 Comments

AtheosisX15 votes

You actually just nailed the real issue with Lee and the real reason he's so popular in LCS. Yes he is a high skill champ, but at the same time he also has an entire toolbox of escape tools so he can do things and go places other junglers would avoid because he always knows he can get away if things get ugly. For LCS players this is huge as their opponents are so great at punishing mistakes. A champ that basically erases bad positioning at any point in the game is just huge.

Thefriendlyorc2 votes

This is an issue with a lot of mobility champs. Their positioning in fights rarely matters as they can change it with the click of a button, Lee is just the epitome of positioning changes.

Hard Penetrator13 votes

I actually think that Lee is at his weakest right now. As funny as it sounds, I think Riot finally put him into right spot.

Truth is we just hate him for his popularity both in regular games and in LCS. He isn't problem anymore. I personally hate Thresh and NIda more but that just me.

Abyssphere3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WQU2RRB5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-26T12:15:23.177+0000)

I actually think that Lee is at his weakest right now. As funny as it sounds, I think Riot finally put him into right spot.

Truth is we just hate him for his popularity both in regular games and in LCS. He isn't problem anymore. I personally hate Thresh and NIda more but that just me.

This isn't a thread about him being too strong. To be honest, I think now that other junglers have finally been made worth playing, he's not too strong.

But that doesn't make him fun to play against or good for the game. The OP is right, the amount his kit forgives is absolutely ludicrous and beyond any other kit in the game. I don't want him to be worse, and frankly he could do with more power in certain areas, but I really do want a rework because that kit is just a nightmare. There's no feeling of accomplishment when you do well with him because his kit can do basically anything you want it to do at any time, and there's near endless frustration playing against him because, as this topic is about, he's damn near unpunishable unless you have an insane amount of lockdown, multiple people, or particularly heavy burst.

Lee is supposed to be the action movie martial arts hero flying around the battle field pounding the crap into people, so how come instead of seeing that, every Lee game results in him using 90% of his mobility to avoid fighting? How come his ultimate's main uses are trying to peel off someone who wants to fight him (again, Lee is 90% self-peel) or pushing someone into the rest of Lee's team so they can destroy him? He doesn't fulfill his fantasy at all.

People say that Elise should be reworked because she doesn't fulfill the spider woman fantasy but at least the majority of her kit is dedicated to setting people up for her spider transformation to murder them and if her numbers weren't so awful she'd be able to do that. Lee Sin fulfills the martial arts hero fantasy for about 2 levels and even then his secondary fantasy is "be a giant dick", which becomes his primary fantasy from then on. I honestly think that's why he's so popular. People get to be complete dicks to the enemy team with him and find it fun to just "lolnope" all day long, typing "#juked" and "not even close" in all chat.

Hard Penetrator4 votes

Its hard to respond in such a long post because you touch many different subjects. But where I do agree that he should be reworked I don't think he is a problem right now. Aside of us getting tired of seeing him, nothing is wrong with forgiving kit if your overall power is at plausible lvl.

I hate more Riven mobility than Lee because he can at least miss his skillshot and launch enemy in the wrong direction, he can mess up his ward jump or simply miscalculate his energy for certain things. Riven with 20-30% cd red is way more irritating especially because she can blow you up while you are cc and kill you after you flash away from her with her R.

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WQU2RRB5,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-03-26T14:32:59.008+0000)

Its hard to respond in such a long post because you touch many different subjects. But where I do agree that he should be reworked I don't think he is a problem right now. Aside of us getting tired of seeing him, nothing is wrong with forgiving kit if your overall power is at plausible lvl.

I hate more Riven mobility than Lee because he can at least miss his skillshot and launch enemy in the wrong direction, he can mess up his ward jump or simply miscalculate his energy for certain things. Riven with 20-30% cd red is way more irritating especially because she can blow you up while you are cc and kill you after you flash away from her with her R.

Heh, sorry. There's just so many things you can say about Lee.

At the end of the day I do agree that he isn't a "problem". I don't like his kit and I really feel like "being really hard to punish" is a pretty terrible focus for any champion, so I'd like a rework, but I definitely don't want him to be nerfed. If only because if he did get nerfed, you'd get people calling for buffs :P And then I think the Boards would explode.

A Superb Villain4 votes

You've got to admit though, finally catching and killing him is oh so satisfying.

http://ell.akamai.coub.com/get/bucket:12.21/p/coub/simple/cw_gif_big/99b9e7b62b9/941a12628c67809c5b00d/1409453963_1386917171_cnfq8x_7l36nqo.gif

JedenVojak4 votes

I can't take you seriously at all, because you don't have any games of Lee Sin on your profile for either this or last season.

Judging by your match history, you are someone who tends to play ranged midlane mages, rather than jungle bruisers.

Nice try Azir main.

Divewing5 votes

I'm not going to lie, very likely chance im biased. HOWEVER, that bias is a result of frustration of barely ever being able to punish bad decisions, I don't understand why most champions need to either pull off some super sexy moves, or avoid over-commitment, yet lee sin can do whatever because there's piss all risk involved.

JedenVojak1 votes

My general advice for anyone who is along the lines of "OMG that champ so annoying and OP" is to just actually play that champion. Often times champs I've been very frustrated fighting against, when I actually played them I ran into all these situations of "huh, I'm so used to doing this thing on my other champions but this guy can't do that..." or "wow this is actually kinda tough". Why, I was frustrated by playing against all these Yasuo's in the midlane, so on free week I picked him up and tried to play around with him... and proceeded to feed like a soup kitchen and be mostly useless all game every game except for split pushing.

In the case of Lee Sin (someone who I haven't really played), he seems very safe because he has 2 separate mobility abilities and a knockback, but the scope of his effects is incredibly narrow - he can only directly attack and effect people in a small radius around himself. He has 1 ranged skillshot ability which doubles as a gap closer, and other than that, he basically is relegated to punching things (I guess you could consider his ult a "ranged" ability by bowling people into their own team, but I just can't help but think that is totally awesome). Conversely when I play say... Sejuani, I'm a lot tankier and I get to stun their entire team (and it is sooo satisfying when you hear that "Crack" and they're all stuck in ice).

In short, Lee Sin is slippery, but he has a limited range of effect. I would say, try him before you decide he's not fun, then I can at least say "well, he played it and didn't think it was fun" which is an entirely subjective POV that no one could argue against since fun is subjective.

DONT NEEEED TEAM1 votes

lee is not strong the player using him is that's why you cant play him your a weak player that needs to learn diversity and try champs before saying shit.

Divewing3 votes

I suggest learning a champion you can play rather than yi before talking smack to me

DONT NEEEED TEAM1 votes

Ik how to play zed lee thresh yi is my ranked champ because he is freeloader i could play lee but yi is stronger

Joquan2 votes

Please stop being an asshole on the internet man..

You're only silver pls no more flame :/

Windfallen4 votes

When full AD build lee thinks he can burst you down under your turret, realizes he's an idiot for trying, knocks you back and is 2000 units away by the time you're even back to where you were standing.

That kind of disrespect should not be possible.

Radnar the bold3 votes

thats why i dont play as riven anymore and hate playing as her. I mean you just button smash and there no real challenge fro you have the damage, you have no cooldowns, and you have no mana. some champs just have it easy and can escape or fight and feel no pressure

I Kill Commies3 votes

I find lee to be pretty fun to play. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean nobody does.

Yfrappefort2 votes

You forgot to mention that he can also just Q a monster camp and get yet another escape.

BastionKross2 votes

The only way I know to punish him is to ban him in champ select. Not even Lee Sin can ward hop away from that.

Chaotic Reks3 votes

Riot: "We saw that Lee Sin's ban rate was wayyyyy too high, so we made him safe from bans and has to be in every game ever. Also: Lee Sin's cooldowns have been reduced to -3 to balance him out. We think he'll be in a good spot after these changes but we'll be keeping an eye on him."

Kögâ4 votes

"This will separate the great lee's from the good lee's."

DONT NEEEED TEAM2 votes

lancer your bronze and too weak a player to enjoy lee sins kit go play nunu

DONT NEEEED TEAM2 votes

lancer your bronze and too weak a player to enjoy lee sins kit go play nunu

76Summers1 votes

what you mean too forgiving??? its either you know how to kick people back or away or you are useless mobility..............ok..

Jofeyy1 votes

How about they make ward hopping impossible when in combat, but while out of combat he can do it as much as he wants? Something kind of like mobi boots?

Dengeden1 votes

Yeh, it's annoying, what with most players being so KDA focused. It's very hard to coordinate when to engage and when to focus on objectives. Champions like Lee, Nid and Zed are reaaally good at baiting people into bad situations. :/

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