Hashinshin talks about PtA nerfs and Bruiser's keystone 'options'

AirKingNeo·Nov 23, 2017·5 votes·2,144 views

Aside from the fast-talking being hard to follow, you can look up anything he's referencing yourself.

28 Comments

Automated RivenNov 23, 20173 votes

Hashinshin is well known for complaining about how everything in the game is beyond broken (if he loses to it) Besides this if he gives up first death in his lane he basically ints thereafter. Forcing both his jungle and the other jungle to camp him so he doesn't desolve into tears about how unfair his opposing laners champion is and how his jungle sucks and the enemy jungler just camped top 24-7.

Long story short, I don't care what rank he is, nothing he says can be trusted in terms of balance.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20173 votes

What does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? You just ignored the entire argument and said, "Fuck you, I don't like this person, and you're wrong." No actually reasoning besides that. Instead, you attempt to correlate 2 different things.

Now, give me an actual reason why what he said in this video is wrong besides your bias.

redniwediSNov 23, 20172 votes

Technically he said "I don't like this person because of his opinions on game balance."

It's not a huge difference, but it does change things slightly. He didn't really direct anything at you.

Automated RivenNov 23, 20172 votes

I am sorry, I will restate my comment so as to be more clear. Hashinshin complains about any interaction or matchup or jungler or champion or rune or summoner spell that does not directly help bruisers, or specifically counters them. (his favorite from what I have seen is to consistantly complain about how OP fiora is.) In this game, whatever makes it so that he does not win is what is directly considered broken. He, in his mind, never makes mistakes, he never loses lane, everything he does is beyond question. And so, the result is that if he loses lane he tilts off the planet and blames the jungler, claims he was camped, the opponent played a no skill OP champion which is completely unfair, an so on.

So long story short, If Hashinshin is thus far unable to even reflect on his own gameplay and admit he makes mistakes, as well as being heavily biased towards bruisers (likely to an extend where if they were blatently overpowered he would still complain about how everything else in the game is broken) I dont want to hear his opinion. TBH i didnt even watch the video, Because I know for a fact before even looking at it that he isnt looking at the game objectively. Hashinshin has acted the exact same way since season 1-2, so much so that his posts on the original GD were basically a meme.

So why would I want to listen to someone who actively refuses to look at things objectively? (Or is simply incapable?)

It would make no sense for me to take what he has to say without a few cups of sugar to temper the salt pile that is always in what hashinshin says.

edit I watched the video and I was correct, He ONLY cares about toplane. He even argued that press the attack was not op (rofl). He ignores any inbalance outside of toplane because it doesnt matter to his narrative. It doesnt matter that PTA was 3x better then any other keystone. Its not OP because it isnt OP on bruisers. And he goes on with stupid rhetoric which I could address more but tbh I simply got bored.

InfernapeNov 23, 20171 votes

his favorite from what I have seen is to consistantly complain about how OP fiora is.

Didn't he play her against Olaf, get dumpstered on and blame IWD for not camping his lane?

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

No, he blamed Dom for allowing the opposing jungler to pressure him off the wave for about 1.5 minutes and not help him regain the pressure.

Automated RivenNov 23, 20171 votes

Did you miss the part where he mindless shoved the wave instead of freezing it? Multiple times?

Automated RivenNov 23, 20171 votes

ya he did. This is my point.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

You just stated a claim of someone being bias without anything to back it up besides your own curiosity. Despite Hashinshin being correct on just about everything he says, you're claiming he's biased? How? If he's correct, then maybe he's not biased.

But Hash has reflected on his own mistakes. He didn't learn to play Camille by literally shutting out the world and say, "I know what's best." Perhaps he's just self-disciplined and doesn't care about the input of people trying to point out non-mistakes as mistakes just to cause drama.

Can you prove that? Can you prove that if bruisers were overpowered he'd claim they're weak? Give any proof. Oh, that can't happen because there hasn't been a time where bruisers, as a class, have been super broken. Ok, here's a better question: If Hashinshin is so biased, why doesn't he just overbuff whatever country he plays in EU4?

I dont want to hear his opinion. TBH i didnt even watch the video, Because I know for a fact before even looking at it that he isnt looking at the game objectively.

Then you have no right to comment. Your input is meaningless since you refuse to talk about the topic and instead choose to derail it.

Last I checked, Hash was respected on the old league forums, hence why he's a friend/acquaintance of Riot Morello.

Ironic that you refuse to look at Hashinshin objectively. Perhaps we're just humans and thus have emotions, and we can't hide them regardless or else we should be labeled a coward. Since it's an opinion it is, by definition, of emotion.

Automated RivenNov 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You just stated a claim of someone being bias without anything to back it up besides your own curiosity. Despite Hashinshin being correct on just about everything he says, you're claiming he's biased? How? If he's correct, then maybe he's not biased.

First off, Your claiming that Hashinshin is correct, I challenge you to prove he is without simply saying he is, you cannot argue that he is correct without first proving he is.

But Hash has reflected on his own mistakes. He didn't learn to play Camille by literally shutting out the world and say, "I know what's best." Perhaps he's just self-disciplined and doesn't care about the input of people trying to point out non-mistakes as mistakes just to cause drama.

What mistakes are people pointing out that are actually not mistakes? Again, please provide evidence, You are making the assertation that hashinshin is right and other people are wrong, the burden of proof falls on you to prove this.

Can you prove that? Can you prove that if bruisers were overpowered he'd claim they're weak? Give any proof. Oh, that can't happen because there hasn't been a time where bruisers, as a class, have been super broken. Ok, here's a better question: If Hashinshin is so biased, why doesn't he just overbuff whatever country he plays in EU4?

I don't even know what that is, or how it applies to league of legends. I also said likely, implying there is a possibility that I am wrong and its a personal suspicion. You can question if I am correct but you cannot besmirch my arguement based on the possibility that I may be wrong in a guess which I posited.

Then you have no right to comment. Your input is meaningless since you refuse to talk about the topic and instead choose to derail it.

I have every right to comment as much as you or anyone else, And if you read the edit you would have noticed that I did in fact watch the video and I did address some things he said which contained obvious bias (pointing back to your first point)

Last I checked, Hash was respected on the old league forums, hence why he's a friend/acquaintance of Riot Morello.

I will try to track down some threads from the old boards where he was openly mocked because of his bruiser bias and refusal to listen to reason.

Ironic that you refuse to look at Hashinshin objectively. Perhaps we're just humans and thus have emotions, and we can't hide them regardless or else we should be labeled a coward. Since it's an opinion it is, by definition, of emotion.

Opinions are emotion? lul wat?

opinion [uh-pin-yuh n] Spell Syllables Synonyms Examples Word Origin See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty. 2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. 3. the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion. 4. Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case. 5. a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.: to forfeit someone's good opinion. 6. a favorable estimate; esteem: I haven't much of an opinion of him.

Please point out where it says that opinion is an emotion in this definition.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

First off, Your claiming that Hashinshin is correct, I challenge you to prove he is without simply saying he is, you cannot argue that he is correct without first proving he is.

He's high elo, been challenger for multiple seasons, and tends to be correct 95% of the time. Hence why Riot finally nerfed Bramble Vest; Hash was right.

What mistakes are people pointing out that are actually not mistakes? Again, please provide evidence, You are making the assertation that hashinshin is right and other people are wrong, the burden of proof falls on you to prove this.

Yeah, sure. Dom claimed Hash gave up his lane pressure when reality was him being pressured off by the opposing jungler, thus having a wave and XP disadvantage (comparatively). You know what I'm talking about. Hash's Fiora, Dom's Rek'Sai vs Some Olaf and Some Nidalee.

I don't even know what that is, or how it applies to league of legends. I also said likely, implying there is a possibility that I am wrong and its a personal suspicion. You can question if I am correct but you cannot besmirch my arguement based on the possibility that I may be wrong in a guess which I posited.

I'm pointing out the fact you're being very bias by claiming someone else is biased without any proof of it.

I have every right to comment as much as you or anyone else, And if you read the edit you would have noticed that I did in fact watch the video and I did address some things he said which contained obvious bias (pointing back to your first point)

Reads my point about how he shouldn't derail conversation and watches because he knows I'm right, but then attempts to claim, "No, no, no. You're in the wrong."

PtA isn't broken. He does care about imbalanced outside of top lane. Why do you think he wants Lulu, Rakan, Xayah, Twitch, and ADCs, in general, to be nerfed? At lthis point, you're completely blinded by your confirmation bias and refuse to listen to any reason that doesn't fit your narrative.

I will try to track down some threads from the old boards where he was openly mocked because of his bruiser bias and refusal to listen to reason.

Doesn't really change the fact that he's respected by Riot Morello, which is proof he's definitely no fool.

a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Can you at least try to put up a fight?

Automated RivenNov 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He's high elo, been challenger for multiple seasons, and tends to be correct 95% of the time. Hence why Riot finally nerfed Bramble Vest; Hash was right.

There are two logical fallacies in this first sentance. First your apealing to hashinshins accomplishments, thus saying he is right because he achieved challenger, Second your applying circular reasoning. You are arguing that he is right because he is right most of the time. This sentence means nothing.

Yeah, sure. Dom claimed Hash gave up his lane pressure when reality was him being pressured off by the opposing jungler, thus having a wave and XP disadvantage (comparatively). You know what I'm talking about. Hash's Fiora, Dom's Rek'Sai vs Some Olaf and Some Nidalee.

This also means nothing. Your asserting an opinion of an event without any evidence. BUt I will reply anyway, In that video hashinshin ruined his own lane. Far before and after Dom came and went. He never once froze the lane even when it was extremely advantageous. He repeatedly shoved mindlessly showing an incredible lack of understanding of the basics of minion wave manipulation. And practically gifting the lane to fiora, where fiora would not have been able to approach the lane safely if he had frozen.

I'm pointing out the fact you're being very bias by claiming someone else is biased without any proof of it.

I provided proof in the other post, You simply ignored it. You didnt even respond remotely coherently to my points.

Reads my point about how he shouldn't derail conversation and watches because he knows I'm right, but then attempts to claim, "No, no, no. You're in the wrong."

Your assuming I watched the video after I read your point. Which I did not.

PtA isn't broken. He does care about imbalanced outside of top lane. Why do you think he wants Lulu, Rakan, Xayah, Twitch, and ADCs, in general, to be nerfed? At lthis point, you're completely blinded by your confirmation bias and refuse to listen to any reason that doesn't fit your narrative.

PTA is broken, Its by far the strongest Keystone. It has the highest damage potential and buffs your entire team which the other keystones lack. It is simply far stronger then any other keystone atm. And riot buffing the other two so they can compete is not a problem. And he wants Lulu Rakan and adc's nerfed because they peel/kill him. Its unfair because they are broken. because he died. and its not fair. Do you watch him when he streams?

Doesn't really change the fact that he's respected by Riot Morello, which is proof he's definitely no fool. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

In what way is "personal view" when used in the same definition as attitude and appraisal anyway close to meaning emotion. Here are some more definitions.

at·ti·tude ˈadəˌt(y)o͞od/Submit noun a settled way of thinking or feeling about someone or something, typically one that is reflected in a person's behavior. "she took a tough attitude toward other people's indulgences" synonyms: view, viewpoint, outlook, perspective, stance, standpoint, position, inclination, temper, orientation, approach, reaction; More a position of the body proper to or implying an action or mental state. "the boy was standing in an attitude of despair, his chin sunk on his chest" synonyms: position, posture, pose, stance, bearing "an attitude of prayer" NORTH AMERICANinformal truculent or uncooperative behavior; a resentful or antagonistic manner. "I asked the waiter for a clean fork, and all I got was attitude"

ap·prais·al əˈprāzəl/Submit noun an act of assessing something or someone. "treatment begins with a thorough appraisal of the patient's condition" synonyms: assessment, evaluation, estimation, judgment, rating, gauging, sizing up, summing-up, consideration "an objective appraisal of the book" an expert estimate of the value of something. "the final figure is just a little more than triple the appraisal" synonyms: valuation, estimate, estimation, quotation, pricing; survey "a free insurance appraisal"

Pro tip, When you look at a definition of a word, You cannot take a word or phrase out of context to justify what your trying to say. IE when Personal view is used as a definition with attitude and appraisal you have to take personal view in the sense it applies to the other portions of that section in the definition. So in this case personal view would be something that you believe based on your attitude or appraisal, which would then be your opinion. It has nothing to do with emotion.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

There are two logical fallacies in this first sentance. First your apealing to hashinshins accomplishments, thus saying he is right because he achieved challenger, Second your applying circular reasoning. You are arguing that he is right because he is right most of the time. This sentence means nothing.

At that point, the facts and statistics support him.

AirKingNeoNov 24, 20171 votes

This also btw:

https://twitter.com/DarshanU/status/933801749869084672

Automated RivenNov 23, 20172 votes

here is a list of reason why this exact video shows hashinshins bias,

at 35 seconds, Hashinshin is "frustrated" by the fact that Fleet of foot and lethal tempo are being buffed when they dont effect bruisers.
At 1:01 he claims that PTA is not overpowered (in reality he is claiming that it isnt overpowered on bruisers because at 1:55 he talks about how PTA is getting nerfed because its too strong on adc's IE overpowered)\
He at 1:20 he rationalizes how PTA is not OP because the top 17 TOPLANE champions do not use it.
At 2:02 he is angry that PTA is getting nerfed due to it being OP on ADC, but is also angry that FOF and lethal tempo are being buffed. Because (using the context) they are not OP on adc's. I am guessing here because there is no logical reasoning behind the two weak keystones getting buffed and the OP one being nerfed. Aside from the fact that the keystones being buffed dont help him going back to 35 seconds in the video. Again evidence of his bias.
He argues that summon aery was "maybe broken" and the could have "rebalanced it" but somehow without nerfing it?? (i am forced to come to this conclusion because that seems to be the only relieable other explination and he doesnt expand on it) because in the same sentence he is complaining it got nerfed. At 2:50
From 3:00 to 4:00 he talks about how bruisers (read jax/camille) can only go PTA (which is mildly true)
he talks about riven being OP and at a 50% win rate Lolalytics puts it at 48.34 an 8.3% pickrate. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Riven/ OP.gg puts her at 50.51 while having a 5% pick rate implying that only mains are playing her. but Ranked 24, just above jax, so there is that. http://na.op.gg/champion/riven/statistics/top
At 6:10 seconds he tries really hard to make it look like he has an arguement by comparing champion types, ADC to Fighter. Let me list all the fighters that will only take press the attack. Jax, Camille, Fiora, Irelia That is literally it, Please feel free to post who else would Exclusively take PTA and I will point out what else they would take. But basically this is a Begging the Claim fallacy. http://grammarist.com/rhetoric/begging-the-question-fallacy/
At Multiple times in the video he mentions that Olaf abuses Aery. 2:39/4:19/7:07 And then he claims that its nerfed (not because its OP) but because the abuse cases not including olaf but restricted to champions that are not fighters. Thus insinuating bias.

Thats all I am posting for now. Feel free to come up with any evidence that he is looking at the game objectively and I will listen. But please make sure its actual evidence.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

at 35 seconds, Hashinshin is "frustrated" by the fact that Fleet of foot and lethal tempo are being buffed when they dont effect bruisers.

Sounds like a logical concern to me. Usually, when you spout the word bias, you tend to mean, "Bias large enough to cloud one from seeing the truth". Instead, you literally just give up at part one.

PtA isn't overpowered. Is that proof of bias and how?

He's providing proof PtA isn't an issue. Is that bias?

No, he's claiming Riot is being hypocritical by nerfing 1 keystone, but buffing the weaker keystones for the same class who just got the other one nerfed.

So, I think I'll ask again: How does this prove Hash is wrong?

"How does bias disprove someone? It doesn't because bias doesn't prove or disprove an argument. Bias provides context to an argument, which is why it's illogical to try to argue someone is wrong because of bias."

Automated RivenNov 23, 20171 votes

Please reread. I posted without finishing.

EedatNov 23, 20173 votes

2k17 and still listening to Hashinshin? That guy's advice is trash anymore. All he does is bitch about what beat him last game. Whatever beat him is "utterly broken with zero counterplay".

Here's a vid of LS calling out Hashinshin's bullshit. Now, do I trust a challenger professional coach or the king of salt Hashinshin? Hmmmmmmm

https://youtu.be/LSgn_srf0TE

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20172 votes

Because Hash is right? I don't see the point in acting a person instead of their argument. Sounds like a bitch move and a cheap shot. Maybe at least try to know a person before attacking them, but at that point you wouldn't be attacking him because you'd actually understand the person. You don't have to agree with them on all things, but you can give the decent respect to let an opinion be voiced. It's not like anyone harps on LS every time he makes a mistake, nor would Hash make a video like that because he doesn't care for needless drama.

Who do I trust more? They're both about equal. Hash has been challenger in all seasons except 7, and his champions have been the shittiest since he dropped out. I did learn my Kayn jungle path from LS though, but I am unsure if it applies now with Raptors start being less favored.

Now, we can just boil this argument down to the basic point. Which champion has Hashinshin called broken that isn't broken? Recent examples just for ease. Fiora? Broken. Riven? Broken; high winrate and playrate equals broken. Shouldn't really need to explain this. Ornn? Don't even kid yourself. Shen? He's broken, but balanced vs tanks. Just his ult sucks for solo queue. ADCs as a class? He's mostly right. Lulu? Don't even try. Rakan? Pick ban at worlds? Akali? Have you seen her winrate? How do you beat that? Gnar? Perma kite into death. Pantheon? Q, Q, Q, Q, never run out of mana, perma zone from wave. Jayce? Full combos you and only lost about half mana, you can't fight back during his combo due to it's speed, heavy slow, and knockback.

Not like the guy runs an EU4 Mod without reason. He's definitely got some sense of balance.

EedatNov 23, 20172 votes

No, because his view of balance is how anything affects Jax. Notice how he cries about Cass being completely broken because it does well against Jax. Not because Cass is actually OP, but because of how it affects him personally. Notice how he complains about the PtA nerfs that were 100% justified because its great on Jax. Riven is OP with a "high winrate and playrate"? In reality she has a 50% WR and a 5% pick rate. But guess what? Riven is good against Jax so therefore he cries about her. Fiora is broken? 48% WR with 6% pick rate. BUT GUESS WHAT? Who do you think she does well against? :^)

Hashinshin has fallen so far. His advice is trash now unless you want tips for playing Jax. Legit everything else is complete horseshit. He is best known for his insane amount of tilt and hardcore feeding if he doesnt get ahead early. Oh, and for blaming jungler when he fucks up his lane by himself.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

No, because his view of balance is how anything affects Jax.

You're completely assuming that. You don't have anything to back up, nor could, because it's a very very very baseless statement believed because you decided to believe people who wanted to cause drama and feel superior for picking on someone. It's not a secret people pick on Hash because the community is easily baited into it.

Notice how he cries about Cass being completely broken because it does well against Jax. Not because Cass is actually OP, but because of how it affects him personally.

So? Cassio shouldn't be good into Jax. Jax is a bruiser, Cassio is a mage. Mages aren't supposed to be good early game. So, in reality, hs is complaining that Cassio is OP and is giving a reason. Doesn't matter since this is one example.

Notice how he complains about the PtA nerfs that were[n't] 100% justified because its great on Jax.

Because PtA doesn't really need nerfs? It's mostly fine. Also, he's saying don't because BRUISERS AS A WHOLE will have no keystone to use at all, not the vacuum of Jax you claim--but can't support. Did you miss the part where he talks about how the buffs to other precision keystones are ADC favored? Did you missed the part where he said Summon Aery was good on Olaf? Where Electrocute is probably only good on Riven (as far as bruiser go)?

Riven is OP with a "high winrate and playrate"? In reality she has a 50% WR and a 5% pick rate. But guess what? Riven is good against Jax so therefore he cries about her.

Ok, since you refuse to follow logical thinking (due to blindness from pure bias), I'm gonna lay down something you should have inferred. You're using current Riven stats. Hash says Riven CURRENTLY is mostly balanced (hence why doesn't need buffs). It was before when Riven was broken and had a HIGH winrate and HIGH playrate.

Aren't you just making that up? Saying he hates Riven because Riven beats Jax, despite Riven actually having been statistically broken, means he's 'super biased'. Well wait, that doesn't make sense. Come on, think it through. Maybe he just dislikes things being overpowered? Even if he was biased, how does that disprove him?

It doesn't because bias doesn't prove or disprove an argument. Bias provides context to an argument, which is why it's illogical to try to argue someone is wrong because of bias.

Fiora is broken? 48% WR with 6% pick rate. BUT GUESS WHAT? Who do you think she does well against? :^)

Again, using current statistics instead of using proper statistics IN CONTEXT. By the way, Fiora vs Jax is a skill matchup, where Jax wins if he rushes Bramble Vest (and then probably Ninja Tabi).

Hashinshin has fallen so far. His advice is trash now unless you want tips for playing Jax. Legit everything else is complete horseshit. He is best known for his insane amount of tilt and hardcore feeding if he doesnt get ahead early.

Isn't this based on nothing but conjecture? Look in yourself, because I know you're not an idiot, and look at things logically. Remove all assumption and bias you have from all these people going for attention because someone is easy to pick on. Perhaps do research. Hash runs and balances his own mod for a game called Europa Universalis 4 and clearly doesn't show bias.

Besides, how could you forget about the global Hashinshin taunt? https://clips.twitch.tv/HealthyLightSpindleOSsloth

DreadlocksNov 23, 20171 votes

LS.. the guy who says he isn't helping people learn the new runes for money, but stamps a $15 donation for mastery page for x champion on his overlay.. LS is a trash human being.

Automated RivenNov 23, 20172 votes

You mean this LS who isnt helping people with runes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6uxG09qN0s&t=29s\

DreadlocksNov 23, 20171 votes

On stream he had on his overlay $15 for any champ's rune set up..

RalanrNov 23, 20171 votes

Riven has a 50% winrate?

Where is this information coming from for him?

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

https://www.op.gg/champion/riven/statistics/top

Probably here I believe. 50.48%

Iota ThetaNov 23, 20171 votes

I mean, he has an entire point about how Lethal Tempo isn’t good because, using Yi as an example, no Yi will Alpha Strike in, then tell everyone to wait until it kicks in. Of course not, Yi and Jax could just keep autoing until it kicks in..because that’s how the rune works. You keep attacking and get a massive boost, and it can help them more with the CD at 6 seconds and the fact that the duratjon can be extended to 6 seconds.

And did I miss a nerf to Press the Attack? Cause all I see is that the third auto will no longer have its damage increased from the debuff.

AirKingNeoNov 23, 20171 votes

Jax ain't using Lethal Tempo either. He charges it up for the time, and then gets CCed or they run away. PtA is so much better for his 3 hit playstyle.