I swear i get flamed frequently for banning him when i see somebody pick him in ranked. He has been out for A DAY. ONE DAY to the public. You think i want that in my promos? How about no. So instead i get people saying "oh ill just bard jg to tilt you" Whatever man. You wanna be an ass, go for it. But ivern shouldnt even be eligible for ranked right now
LostFr0st3 votesSome people (not all) have been playing him for 2 weeks tbh. Rare, but true.
Slythion2 votesand it still isn't fair to bring a new champion into ranked
his teammates not knowing Ivern is only half the argument, it's unfair to the enemy to be forced to play against a new champion without having any chance to practice it as well. Even if everyone but a single person had a PBE account, it's unfair for that one person who hasn't had a chance to practice against Ivern and creates a situation that emphasizes "who can adapt faster" more than any other skill in the game which is unhealthy and creates an inaccurate ranked match.
LostFr0st1 votesSo what about the people who just hit ranked? Or the ones who just got back now and faced new Yorick for the first time? There will always be cases like this. Just like there are people who don't ranked the first couple days after a patch drops, others jump right in without reading the notes and play a champ that got super nerfed or item synergy changed hours before.
New champ drops with new patch. There has to be a starting line that isn't ambiguous and that can't change with time zones.
Slythion1 votesWhat about the players who just hit ranked? They have had 30 levels to prepare (and although I don't think that's enough time, at least they've had some time to prepare unlike day 1 release of new champions/complete reworks)
And the ones that just logged on to see new Yorick? They've had loads of time to get on and see Yorick, riot can't control player's schedules. What they can do is prevent the situation in which it effects everyone because of a fault at Riot's end, not from the player's end.
There will always be cases like this
Yes, but those situations are always created due to the players fault. The fact that Riot gives no time to prepare (even if some players wouldn't use that time) seems ridiculous to me. How is comparing a player that hasn't played in a month+ and jumps straight into ranked comparable to a player that ranks every day and is forced into dealing with a new champion with having a chance to experience it?
What I'm talking about is an opportunity to learn the champion through norms and such, if you don't take advantage of that opportunity than it's your own fault.
LostFr0st1 votesSo we're back to why we have bans and why the new champ is banned for no real reason the first few days-- no one wants to deal with it. The people who want to play him will need to learn that he'll be banned for a bit.
Tbh though, Riot gives us the champ reveal ~2 weeks before the champ hits live and the spotlight (showing the tricky stuff) a weekish before live release. That should be enough time but it doesn't feel that way I know.
Heck, Nid's clear mechanics change more often than a new champ is released and people adapt just fine.
Slythion1 votesNot to mention seeing and reading about a champion =/= playing or experiencing the champion 1st hand
A ban spot is designed for banning strong picks or, for experience players, champions that thrive off your team comp. A ban spot shouldn't be taken up just because having "X" champ in the game results in a "who can adapt the fastest/best" situation.
LostFr0st1 votesIt'll die down in a day or two; we both know that. I disagree that bans shouldn't be used to limit the adaptation coin-toss game. If I could talk to my teammates then maybe those bans would be reduced, but I'll still ban Kat every single time my mid intent picks Cass just because of past experiences with those two in the game. I don't care if they are super ragey at me after the ban tbh.
Succubús GF1 votesThe pbe experience is also different from real gameplay (i know)
LostFr0st2 votesI know... it truly is. It is sad. But they still know the champ mechanics. If I have a ban due to power pick or new champ I usually say to my team "Oh, I banned it because they'll grab it before us" or something like that. Creates less waves that way.
Prozzak1 votesDoesn't matter, PBE isn't close to skill level needed to pratice him. Need real games vs actual players first.
LostFr0st1 votesPBE isn't bad skill level, it's just super snowbally due to the smaller pool of players for matchmaking. This happens every time a new champ is released; Ivern is no different imo.
Prozzak1 votesUnless it has gotten better from a year or two ago, it used to be no better than playing vs bots. So, if it has changed (maybe it has) then ok, otherwise I disagree.
LostFr0st1 votesWell, I don't think there are many diamond-level players playing consistently on pbe so no, it hasn't gotten better on that front for ya. I get you though.
Supreme Senpai691 votesEven if that Ivern is a god in just two weeks, the 0.01% of the league playerbase let's say. He'll still be useless. His team won't know how to play with him, or that his ability lets them dash to the enemy champion. Or that they can share buffs. Or that the shield slows enemies if its cast on you. Ivern is a support jungler that requires teamwork that simply won't exist day 1.
LostFr0st2 votesFor sure. He needs huge team support, and has stuff that'll surprise unaware enemies. But when should "day 1" be then? I think people are gonna be pissed regardless when he's on their side for a while. For people who only play ranked day one will still be whenever he's available for ranked.
Supreme Senpai691 votesI'd say after the first week. Gives people a chance to try him in customs/normals.
LostFr0st2 votesOk. Fair. So let's say we do that.
So now these other sides of it pops up:
Riot can't get ranked high-elo data on the champion for a week (slowing down the rate at which people 'figure out' the tricks in the champ's kit) so the champ's live balance would probably not change much the following patch.
tldr: People are upset for longer that x champ is OP/UP.
It lulls champ hype since it cuts off streamers from showing off the new champ to their subs/viewers in a competitive environment.
How do we balance with both of these in mind too?
Supreme Senpai691 votesTo be completely honest? I see #1 as a good thing. It took so long for people to figure out how to play Aurelion Sol/Taliyah. Riot even buffed them at first because they had low winrates (I think!) and then later had to tone them down as people learned how to play the champions, nerfing them. These new champions are all pretty different and hard to get used to, and crying OP or UP too soon is bad.
As for number 2, I'd honestly just disagree since I consider normal to be competitive most of the time. And even if it isn't for some, I don't think it'd cut down hype or that cutting down hype is a big deal.
Buuut I'm just sorta saying whatever I want because I know it won't happen. If Riot listened to everything I said, I'd definitely think a lot harder about it. Right now I just get annoyed that people first time champions and feed in ranked games so saying "there should be a rule against that" is a way to vent I guess lol.
LostFr0st2 votesHaha, yeah the Taliyah superbuffs and Sol hotfix nerfs were funny to say the least X3
Funny you said the last bit and then we got the announcements of replays tonight.
Timing just made me laugh.
Surr20plz2 votesI tried to play him in ranked minutes after he came out but someone banned him. Then they dodged.
Their tears we're delicious, like a fine chardonnay.
Succubús GF1 votesYou sound like a horrible person honestly xD
CerealBoxOfDoom2 votesbut I've been practicing ivern for like 2 weeks now :/
Succubús GF4 votesNot sure if you were kidding or not. But pbe =/= ranked gameplay. Also, you probably still dont play him that well as he is still fairly new.
Slythion1 votesnot to mention it isn't fair to his teammates/enemies who have yet to see the champion yet. It gives him an unfair advantage no matter what way you look at it
Succubús GF1 votesI actually didnt even look at it that way, but i completely agree.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesits fair, not my fault theyre lazy casuals without pbe accounts lol
Slythion3 votesI really hope you're kidding
I've been requesting for a PBE account for over a year now...is it really fair that I have to fight someone who has had 2 weeks of experience playing as/against a champion when it's my first time seeing him?
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesyes. getting in is partly based on community contribution and how much you play
btw did you actually check your email for it? There aren't big fireworks or anything
Slythion1 votesa very very small percent of applicants are accepted into the PBE.
Many players have waited for even longer than I have so far, it's not uncommon. I have checked my email (just did to, there aren't many emails in the account I gave them so I was able to go back to before I even started playing league within 5mins) and can confirm that the only emails from Riot that I've recieved have been from a) Support Ticket notifications b) Surveys c) A single notice for lv.1 leaver buster back when I had the worst internet connection NA d) The email that notified me that I was accepted into the Alpha Client
I play multiple games daily. It's really just a matter of luck tbh.
Unstoppable Monk1 votes[slayer-pantheon-rainbows] AND WE CALLED THEM INT ENTS.
ViiLLAiN1 votesactually hes pretty damn good lol
Tryce Maxwell1 votesI see this argument with literally every new champion. Shut up. It hasn't changed in X years, it won't change now, it won't change in the future, just deal with it.