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recent nidalee changes on auto attacks

SwiftKitten88··5 votes·1,162 views

The changed to Ad nid with the Q damage getting reduced, while i dont like the change itself. i dont have a big issue with it because it lowered nidalee absurd ban rate, and truth be told she had very little counters top lane. so while im partially biased towards the nerf i dont feel it was overly excessive.

there WAS however two changes done towards nid which i feel completly take away from what was meant to be done. the whole change around this last patch was to make AP nidalee betetr and appear more often to balance AD nid top. its is has partically worked.

but here is the issue the auto attack change. nid's auto attacks were both slowed and they do less damage.

now this suceeded in lowering her Ad damage vs champs when going AD. which is now balanced fine.

the probme is that if you going AP nidalee it almost inpossible to last hit minions wihut using cougar form skills now

i dont pretend to be a high level player am not amazing at last hitting.. but on AP nid i went from missing about 0-3 minions per wave on last hits to somtimes only MANGING to kill 0-3. minionn per wave until i reach lvl 3 where i can use swipe. it it ABSURDLY harder to last hit on AP nid now.

and last htiting in cugoar form means i need to be in melee range which vs most mid opponents means they can take free shots at me.

this mean that i and very easily getting denied as AP nid now which the whole purpose of the patch was to buff ap nid and nerf AD.

well you nerfed ad yes... but you also nerfed ap As well

please revert the changes to nidalee's auto attack system. i highly doubt this was the intended effect of the auto attack change is it really makes a huge difference when trying to last hit as AP nid.

5 Comments

IaiReiko2 votes

This post exactly, but not only that. I understand she was strong lane bully as an Assassin main but they really nerfed her in more ways than one.

I used to jungle her with AP. But they nerfed her base AD and q. she barely can take blue. Not much even clear it. She is forced to build AD in order to prosper.

Which makes me think of hybrid in general. Hybrids usually have a 1.0 + in ad . AD scales per lvl. Nerfing AD is a direct nerf early and late game.

Nidalee AP hasn't been viable late game for the same reason as before her rework. But before it had niche property of game changing sieges. Poke comps excel in early game. Tanky comps usually ignore AP ratio's. The positioning and skill it takes to land something on a AD carry or AP that hasn't built HP ( feels completely useless in team fights). Removed her Armor and MR, cougar form is even more riskier and gets blown up. Her skills are not even blinks, have a shield, for the risks she take.

Nidalee, AD. She's an assassin. PLS! Why is her damages getting nerfed. I can look at Katerina 2 shot bot lane. But she's not allowed to get fed top, or Assassinate the Ap or AD carry? It scales better, and is more consistent.

Tanky items after Trinity force. Nothing left really. Still trying to be viable because going in squishy hasn't been rewarding. She fall off after some time. But it's like riot is going to give nid the same pre worked LeBlanc problems.

In worlds, Koreans built chalice + lichbane + and a needlessly. I had my hopes on Ap nidalee. 'We saw her chunk SUPPORT Morgana on the same lvl with minimal items. Then she threw another spear at someone else, and the damage was negligible. She would have to hope lighting strikes twice for morgana. Or about 5x as much for anyone else. And at both times it would dumb to initiate.

ƒenrisúlfr1 votes

I noticed this too. Last hitting is a nightmare and I REPEATEDLY cancel takedown mid animation now. I don't think this QOL nerf to AP nidalee was by design; I think they just wanted to hurt AD nid numbers and this is a REALLY BAD consequence that should be fixed.

ManWithAScarf1 votes

Her auto-attack is fine.

She can actually clear waves freaking fast if you go AP... due to a bunch of AoE (Pounce and Swipe), a reset mechanic on her Pounce and a good AP scaling (not like before, but still pretty decent). If you can't last hit properly with her auto-attack animation, start a bot game and focus on last hitting. You'll get used to it.

Sagee Prime1 votes

I disagree about her not having many counters. She has plenty of counters, although more so after the nerfs, just most of her counter picks aren't popular picks.

What I don't get is why they didn't do small nerfs in stages instead of a suite of nerfs in a single patch. that tells me the over arching goal was to gut her AD build, which has been quite effective, since now all her counters are that much more dominant, her strong picks are now counterpicks, and most weaker picks have a much easier time or are straight up strong picks against her now.

List of strong and counterpicks(Note: This includes AD Nidalee pre-nerf): Counterpicks: Akali, Alistar, Annie, Fiddlesticks, Fiora, Jayce, Kayle, Khazix, Maokai, Nocturne, Nunu, Pantheon, Riven, Teemo, Trundle, Udyr, Yasuo, and Zac.

Strong picks: Aatrox, Diana, Gnar, Gragas, Irelia, Jarvan IV, Jax, Kassadin, Kennen, Lee Sin, Lissandra, lulu, Quinn, Renekton, Rumble, Ryze, Shyvana, Warwick, Wukong, and Xin Zhao.

Special mentions: Nasus, Poppy, Vladimir, and tryndamere. These guys tend to get dumpstered early but have huge power spikes and late game scaling that make up for it.

Weak picks: Cho'Gath, Darius, Mundo, Galio, Gangplank, Garen, Malphite, Olaf, Rengar, Volibear, and Yorrick.

Counterpicks dominate Nidalee in laning and some dominate her all game(EX: Fiora - dumpsters Nidalee all game) but most of them aren't very popular top lane picks and tend to be weak against their own share of champions. Unless Nidalee gets some early help against her counterpicks she'll end up being nothing more than an annoying split pusher. Most mid laners don't face AD Nidalee but are really good against AD and AP Nidalee but probably more so due to the lane layout of mid. Pantheon and Fiora both have auto attack blockers and scary damage output that Nidalee cannot compete against. Maokai and alistar have CC and sustain that make them hard to push out of lane and hard to escape. Both can hurt Nidalee without taking much damage themselves.

Strong picks are a combination of uncommon and common picks. Most of them have little weaknesses Nidalee can exploit and have huge power spikes that rival hers allowing them to go toe to toe and come out on top or at least cut even in most cases. Riven for instance can avoid most of Nidalee poke, stun her and back off when hit with the hunt, and all in and kill Nidalee easily when hitting lvl 6. Irelia shares a similar strength against Nidalee and can farm and sustain against Nidalee while waiting on her early power spikes at lvl 4 and 6.

Weak picks have little to no what to stick to Nidalee or out trade her or she is able to outsustain or out poke them.

With all this said I do think she was a little on the strong side and needed some nerfs but nowhere near to the extent that riot went about it.

Just so we understand I am a Nidalee player so of course I'm biased but I honestly would have done things differently

List of changes below post...

Sagee Prime1 votes

Option 1:

Base stats:

  • Base attack damage increased from 44 to 49.
  • Base attackspeed increased to 0.670 from 0.638.

Aspect of the Cougar:

  • Hunted bonus effects now scale with ranks in aspect of the cougar.

Javelin Toss: N/A

Takedown:

  • Minimum AD ratio increased from 75% to 100%.
  • Minimum AP ratio increased from 24% to 40%.
  • Base damage increased from 6/20/50/90 to 10/30/60/100.
  • Percent of missing health damage increase reduced from 250% to 125/150/175/200%.
  • Hunted target percent increased damage values increased from 33% to 50%.
  • Maximum AD ratio increased from 187.5% to 125/150/175/200% - Hunt: 187.5/225/262.5/300%. Maximum AP ratio reduced from 90% to 50/60/70/80% - Hunt: 75/90/105/120%.

Pounce:

  • Cooldown reduction mechanic changed from 1.5 seconds to 1 second.
  • Pounce now resets it's own cooldown when used on a hunted target.

Swipe:

  • Ability Power ratio increased from 45% to 50%.
  • Cooldown increased to 6 seconds.
  • Empowered effect no longer reduces pounce cooldown but instead reduce hunted targets damage output by 20%.

This reverts all base stat nerfs and allows her to have less early game damage but similar late game damage and adds additional utility swipe making it easier for her to trade 1v1 since she'll be doing significantly less damage.

Option 2:

Base stats:

  • Base attack damage increased from 44 to 49.
  • Base attackspeed increased to 0.670 from 0.638.

Aspect of the Cougar:

  • Hunted bonus effects now scale with ranks in aspect of the cougar.

Javelin Toss:

  • Cooldown increased to 10/9/8/7/6 from 6 seconds.

Takedown:

  • Minimum AD ratio increased from 75% to 100%.
  • Minimum AP ratio increased from 24% to 40%.
  • Percent of missing health damage increase reduced from 250% to 200%.
  • Hunted target percent damage values changed from 33% increased damage to 20/30/40/50%.
  • Maximum AD ratio increased from 187.5% to 200% - Hunt: 240/260/280/300%. Maximum AP ratio reduced from 90% to 80% - Hunt: 96/104/112/120%.

Pounce:

  • Cooldown reduction mechanic changed from 1.5 seconds to 2.5/2/1.5/1 second(s).

Swipe:

  • Ability Power ratio increased from 45% to 50%.
  • Cooldown increased to 6 seconds.
  • Empowered effect no longer reduces pounce cooldown but instead reduce hunted targets damage output by 10/15/20/25%.

This change makes puts more of her power into the hunt mechanic which will scale with ranks in R now. All base stat nerfs are reverted and the cooldown on Javelin Toss goes up at early levels and down with point in Q to make windows of opportunity early game lower. Takedown does similar more damage with hunt based on ranks in R, Pounce cooldown reduction mechanic reduces it to less per rank in R, and Swipe reduces your targets damage output by increasing amounts based on ranks in R. Ultimately what you end up with is a situation where Nidalee does less damage than pre-nerf and more damage than post nerf but she has a bigger window between when she can use pounce to hop out of a fight allowing you to trade with her when she hops in and since the cooldown on Javelin Toss is higher she won't be able to mark you consecutively in melee early game.

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