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Ok this is starting to annoying me...

SwiftKitten88··22 votes·9,188 views

first we had Shaco mains crying for buffs with 53%+ winrates in every elo? asking for compensation for nerfs to a item 3147

now we have Garen mains asking for buffs at 50% winrate in every elo?

PEOPLE

50% IN EVERY ELO IS BY DEFINITION BALANCED above 50% in every elo is too strong..

below 50% in every elo is (in general) too weak...

if you want to ask for a buff to a champ that has a sub 45% winrate in multiple elos... by all means.. go ahead. even if i hate the champ i can really argue with that data if its from a valid source

if your champ is 50% for every elo except plat + then your still mostly balanced. unfortunate as it may be.. not every champ can be balanced to be viable in higher elo without making them absurdly broken in lower elos because the skill it takes to beat them would be absurdly higher than the skill it takes to play them. other champs just flat out don't work at higher elo because of their kit.

its not like the pro's get more than 20-30 options to choose from at any given patch anyways, that's just life..

if your champ is only decent in pro play, then go ahead ask for buffs. because god knows if your champ has to be in the hands of the top 2% of players to even be usable... it seriously needs help.

but let me repeat.. IF YOUR CHAMP HAS A 50% + WINRATE IN EVERY ELO

IT DOES NOT NEED BUFFS

SHUT UP ABOUT IT ALREADY

were are already at the point where even the weakest champs would need almost hotfix nerfs if they existed in their current state 4 seasons ago, because they would be hilariously OP compared to what was out there back then, due to damage creep reaching level of absolute absurdity.

WE DON'T NEED TO BE BUFFING CHAMPIONS let alone ones that are already balanced or even worse.. already OP.

20 Comments

PiggyTheAstro5 votes

Since when do winrates mean anything?

SwiftKitten887 votes

{quoted}

Since when do winrates mean anything?

Since you start looking at them correctly from valid sources in the way of how a particular champion is balanced, rather than a class.

when you look at them with other data from every elo, instead of ignoring data you dont like because it would make your argument irreverent, and in relation to the players it affects.

and when stop going to site that ignore such data.

and when you take into account said winrate with banrate, playrate, and look at the winrate _differences_between elos.. not just the winrate at the highest level of play.

that's when it matters.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Rathar Dashing3 votes

I disagree that 50% winrate necessarily means "balanced"

Sure a 60% winrate is a good indicator of a champ being overpowered, and sub-40% usually means a champ needs buffs. But 60% could also mean a champ is merely abusing a overpowered item, or a new rune, and most champions have around 40% on release and shoot up past 50% after (usually with an early buff, like with Kai'Sa).

Garen being at 50% winrate in all elo's could be a symptom of many things. Whether or not a champion is "balanced" should be judged on a moment by moment basis. If Garen is useless in lane, useless in the midgame, and can't take objectives, but just happens to pop-off in one teamfight and win the game, is he balanced? If Garen stomps his lane opponent each game, and has tools to escape every attempt at locking him down, but can't seem to win the game despite being 12/1/6, is he balanced? Whether or not he's balanced should be judged by how well he does in every scenario, behind or ahead, top or jungle, teleport or ignite, etc., not just how many times he wins overall.

That being said, I do think Garen is balanced the way he is. He's annoying and hard to kill, but if you kite him and focus on killing his allies he's manageable.

CrazFight 2 votes

Mer champ nurt broken, riot shurt company fix mur champ

SaltLord4512 votes

*cries in Viktor

Sire Hippington2 votes

50% every elo, heh? https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen/diamond my sources tell me different things....and that's a champs that hardly ever gets picked in that elo.

SwiftKitten882 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WNZKQMyE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-22T22:22:39.897+0000)

50% every elo, heh? https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen/diamond my sources tell me different things....and that's a champs that hardly ever gets picked in that elo.

your right.. the simplest champion in the entire game for some reason isn't balanced for the top 2% of players in the game

if only i had addressed this in some way in my original post....

{quoted}

if your champ is 50% for every elo except plat + then your still mostly balanced. unfortunate as it may be.. not every champ can be balanced to be viable in higher elo without making them absurdly broken in lower elos because the skill it takes to beat them would be absurdly higher than the skill it takes to play them. other champs just flat out don't work at higher elo because of their kit.

its not like the pro's get more than 20-30 options to choose from at any given patch anyways, that's just life..

oh wait.. nvm..

Sire Hippington2 votes

Well, with a 50.8% winrate in bronze+, that's less than Fizz or Anivia or Zed, and they are not really known for beeing simple, so he certainly has some room for improvement in higher elos.

Sire Hippington2 votes

50% every elo, heh? https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/garen/diamond my sources tell me different things....and that's a champs that hardly ever gets picked in that elo, so it's mostly mains playing him. Though i agree on one part

were are already at the point where even the weakest champs would need almost hotfix nerfs if they existed in their current state 4 seasons ago, because they would be hilariously OP compared to what was out there back then, due to damage creep reaching level of absolute absurdity.

rather nerf other champs, especially peel and (mostly ranged) damage till Garen atleast has a +48% , that should mean CC and damage creep have been pretty much solved as that's the only way to achive that...

Danni Chimes1 votes

Since when is something both beginning and concurrently acting as a long running issue...

Sassmast3r2 votes

He's beginning to find a long-standing issue annoying? I didn't think it was that hard to understand.

Danni Chimes2 votes

Yea I definitely worded that incorrectly, lol. Just the "annoying" bit is making it not make sense. It's beginning to annoy them...but beginning to annoying...not sure how that's a thing. o_0

Jbels1 votes

I see it as there being a golden range champions should fall into, and that's the 49-51% winrate. If you fall into this range, you champion is not weak, your champion is not too strong. This is where all champions should strive to end up.

The reason why I stick to that range is because it is the easiest to see disparities from. Compare any champion that falls into that range to a champion like, say...Skarner when his winrate ballooned to 57%. You could VERY clearly tell that this wasn't good players, this wasn't items, Skarner himself was too strong. The same goes in reverse. Poppy had a mediocre 45-46% Winrate in top lane. You could FEEL the difference between her and a golden range winrate champion just by playing

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

I see it as there being a golden range champions should fall into, and that's the 49-51% winrate. If you fall into this range, you champion is not weak, your champion is not too strong. This is where all champions should strive to end up.

The reason why I stick to that range is because it is the easiest to see disparities from. Compare any champion that falls into that range to a champion like, say...Skarner when his winrate ballooned to 57%. You could VERY clearly tell that this wasn't good players, this wasn't items, Skarner himself was too strong. The same goes in reverse. Poppy had a mediocre 45-46% Winrate in top lane. You could FEEL the difference between her and a golden range winrate champion just by playing

i think 48% is ok as well if it if it means after elo stays below 53%

i mean i rember when my own main Nidalee had a 9% differential between bronze and diamond even now it is nearly 6-7%

when there is a large winrate differential you have to make exceptions until riot can close the winrate gap.

but anything before 47% is unacceptable unless its higher elo where the normal rules of balance can't apply. because like i said.. some champ flat out cant work at the highest levels of play...

but even then they should strive to keep it above 45% if at all possible without breaking them elsewhere

Swiftstrike41 votes

I am surprised you still post here. I remember your name and I stopped posting here regularly about a year or so ago because...there is barely any substantive conversation.

I check every now and then to read some patch related riot comments, but generally speaking I just post on Summoner school now for a conversation about the game.

The quality of the posts on these boards is terrible and it is just a bunch of players complaining. I don't think it is worth the time and headache. Go to summoner school it is much better.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

I am surprised you still post here. I remember your name and I stopped posting here regularly about a year or so ago because...there is barely any substantive conversation.

I check every now and then to read some patch related riot comments, but generally speaking I just post on Summoner school now for a conversation about the game.

The quality of the posts on these boards is terrible and it is just a bunch of players complaining. I don't think it is worth the time and headache. Go to summoner school it is much better.

lol do u think i post here because i want to have a conservation? i post here because i want RIOT to read what i say.

i couldn't care less what people here think about my posts. they are not the ones i am making them for.

threads like this are here point out the horrendous flaws and blatant bias from a group of mains who get together to spam the boards to try to get something that will hurt the game

and don't get my wrong it WORKS, Riots balance team may be too far gone. but that doesn't mean other riots arn't listening. i mean if it wasn't for the fact that the balance team is royally fucking up the game, this game's client lack of bugs, less the music.. the lore.. they have all been flat out phenomenal. its the balance team that is fucking up the game... and sadly at the end of the day, that will be what kills the game.

but OTHER than the balance team.. which unfortunately in a pvp game is by far the most important or at least more visible aspect. riot is doing great.

i mean it was what? two months ago i wrote this? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/aEJPNAJj-riot-if-you-want-free-money-here-is-a-hint

its already in the game... you give them enough incentive they WILL listen...

Swiftstrike41 votes

Meh, I don't think Riot reads too much on these boards. At least I have never gotten that impression. It feels more like I am talking to a wall.

I made posts regarding balance of Nasus a lot when he was underwhelming. They were downvoted and largely just spiraled into "nasus is too strong".

He was buffed, but it was probably not related to anything that I wrote.

I think the balance team does an OK job balancing the game. It was definitely way worse in past seasons. The last two seasons is had been pretty good. Camille's release was probably the last time I thought that Riot made a huge error. Kai'sa's buffs too i suppose.

I mean Tank Ekko was probably the only big fuck up that lasted an entire season, since season 7 I think the balancing of the game is for the most part fine.

Bot lane is too strong right now and it becomes apparent in higher elo that it is too strong. I don't expect riot to fix that immediately but through several patches throughout the season.

Wild Geese1 votes

It's because the Champions are boring, and have low skill floors. It's not so much a question of buffs but making their champs less clunky.

naveenrenold1 votes

the thing about shaco is they made early game weak. but now mid game super strong with dark harvest and duskblade one shots eventhough he has super strong oneshots, kinda feels bad power farming early on what used to be a early game or lose champ. yeah he is super strong now with clone procing duskblade twice and one shoting.

Zed genius1 votes

Shaco mains didn't ask for buffs. A rioter stated that shaco not only wouldn't get compensation buffs like every single other duskblade user for the duskblade nerf, but he would be nerfed even more, that's why they complained

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