Instead of removing every targetted spell, how about making them draw minion aggro

FalconPawwwwnch·Jun 9, 2015·78 votes·2,949 views

The main reason champs like old Ryze and Vlad and old Cass were/are so stupid to lane against was because of their targetted damage yes, but the main thing is that they could spam spells at you all day and never draw minion aggro, if you tried to fight back as a melee champ then you end up on their side of the lane taking their minion aggro.

Instead of making targetted spells draw minion aggro like autoattacks, Riot just keeps removing every targetted spell over time lol

45 Comments

Goodest GamerJun 9, 201531 votes

my favorite part of top lane is when i try to hit the ryze as a melee and then the minions do 600 damage to me. "outplayed" said the ranged champion. thanks riot!

flibitydooJun 9, 201521 votes

There are some issues with giving Turret AI to minion AI (where the turret will attack enemy champions that damage friendly champions). For example it would significantly hamper DoT champions such as Malzahar. Basically you cast E (Malefic Visions) on the enemy Azir, and now you can't stand near the minions for the duration because they all hate you now (Or if you are Darius, about 50% of the time you can't stand near the minions to last hit because the enemy jax is bleeding). Also instances of collateral damage could be abused as well. For example you could intentionally walk into a mine from the enemy Zigg's minefield and get him swarmed with minions (and goodluck rushing a sunfire cape in toplane).

kunkudunkJun 9, 20154 votes

His suggestion was simply when you cast a targeted spell on an enemy, they take minion agro, like a ryze w or cass e.

Bananas de FireJun 9, 20158 votes

Refer back to the Malz E.

kunkudunkJun 9, 20155 votes

Hence the on cast part not on damage..... I thought that was clear.

kile147Jun 10, 20152 votes

He means that any ability that involves clicking on your target would draw aggro on cast, similar to Auto attacks, but any damage after the initial damage wouldn't draw aggro. So with Malz E you would draw aggro if you directly casted it on your opponent, but not from it jumping to them, and once you lost aggro the DoT wouldn't draw aggro anymore.

FistOfSharkieshaJun 9, 20151 votes

Good points.

darkdillJun 9, 20158 votes

Not a bad idea. But I'd like to hear Riot's argument on why they won't do this (because surely they won't).

FalconPawwwwnchJun 9, 20154 votes

What makes you say they won't? They might

Goodest GamerJun 9, 20153 votes

for 3 seasons straight, melee bruisers have not gotten a break. ive been begging.. people have been begging. we cant even get a 1v1 top vs a melee anymore. what makes you think they care about minion aggro? top lane is just full of ranged cancer like ryze and gnar. happy fun time!

ThePlasticSporkJun 9, 201515 votes

{quoted}

for 3 seasons straight, melee bruisers have not gotten a break. ive been begging.. people have been begging. we cant even get a 1v1 top vs a melee anymore. what makes you think they care about minion aggro? top lane is just full of ranged cancer like ryze and gnar. happy fun time!

"There are no melees in toplane" Chogath Hecarim Irelia Maokai None at all

Goodest GamerJun 9, 20151 votes

hmm what do they have in common? tankiness plus retarded damage. what do melee bruisers like riven and darius have?

ThePlasticSporkJun 9, 201510 votes

{quoted}

hmm what do they have in common? tankiness plus retarded damage. what do melee bruisers like riven and darius have?

I'm not sure what this even has to do with anything. You said that, for 3 seasons, top is full of ranged cancer. It is fact that those champions I listed are not only considered viable, but really strong, and each one is melee. Rumble is a strong melee top laner. It is VERY common to have melee v melee in the top lane. Riven is pretty strong right now. Darius struggles, but it's not because of his lane phase. Darius just has shit scaling.

BluePolarizerJun 9, 20152 votes

Rumble is melee the way Karthus has an autoattack.

NarasimhaJun 9, 20151 votes

tankiness plus** retarded damage**. what do melee bruisers like riven and** darius** have?

...I'll be honest, I don't have a retort for this. I just can't believe someone is actually saying Darius is weak in lane.

Silents429Jun 9, 20151 votes

Idunno I see Tryndamere Trundle Garen Gangplank top lane still.

Ace Access Jun 9, 20154 votes

and lets not forget these guys Fiora Garen Jax Nasus MonkeyKing Renekton Darius Riven

The Yetii RiderJun 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"There are no melees in toplane" None at all

Silence your blasphemy. Cho is a mid laner.

Slamurai JackJun 9, 20152 votes

I can't remember the last time I saw a Melee vs. Ranged matchup top lane and the ranged champion won. It is so easy to overpower ranged top laners early when you can do a camp at lv 1 and TP to lane with lvl 2, and a bunch of health pots. What is Gnar going to do against a Jax that TP's to lane with lvl 2, a dorans, 4 health pots, and 3 mana pots? Not a damn thing.

Joe DreddJun 9, 20153 votes

what? you don't like ryze perma snaring you while doing fuckloads of damage and taking no minion aggro but the second you turn on him minions insta kill you? who woulda known

Goodest GamerJun 9, 201511 votes

[deleted]

Hello I am BirdJun 9, 20154 votes

Ekko not ranged Fizz not ranged. Point still stands

Goodest GamerJun 9, 20151 votes

he may as well be with his damn blinks.

LankPantsJun 9, 20151 votes

You forgot Kalista

Goodest GamerJun 9, 20153 votes

except kalista doesnt sacrifice mobility. she gains mobility by having more range and attack speed.

NarasimhaJun 9, 20152 votes

You... know Ekko and Fizz are melee, right?

Also, not sure why Azir is on the list. It takes him 2 to 3 spells to actually get somewhere. That's hardly a speedster.

Goodest GamerJun 9, 20151 votes

if u were to look at my recent comment, i said how they might as well be ranged with how fast they get spells off and get out with them. also ntoice how every single one of them is ap.

NarasimhaJun 9, 20151 votes

By that logic, Udyr should also be considered ranged. Talon and Zed too.

Goodest GamerJun 9, 20151 votes

talon can zhonyas when caugth and just blink over the map.

HellioningJun 9, 20152 votes

Talon. Buying Zhonya's.

What?

QuortJun 9, 20151 votes

You pretty much just listed Assassins who were designed with burst and mobility in mind. Im pretty sure you're taking the quote out of context; it sounds more like something that would be said for ADCs (see Jinx, Koggles, Ashe vs. Lucian, Vayne, Kalista).

CrettJun 9, 20155 votes

item 3070 Veigar Ryze Rengar Zilean

2016: Taric I can't believe my stun was turned into a skillshot blind...

Buttigieg 2020Jun 9, 20151 votes

Rengar doesn't care. It was actually a buff Imo.

ShifuneJun 9, 20152 votes

What? Ranged point and click spells already generate minion aggro. Go test it yourself. Stand in the middle of a minion wave that isnt attacking you and use a spell on an enemy champion and see what the minions do. Or do you want the minions to engage in an endless chase? If that is the case, people would just abuse it for new lane freezing mechanics. IE: Let me hit X champion so his/her minions chase me. My minions will chase his minions, lane successfully moved to where i want it.

SoMNiaJun 9, 20152 votes

Nami My W already draws minion aggro. What game are you playing where this doesn't happen?

FooDangJun 9, 20151 votes

This is a bad idea. Changing it would put the game more offbalance lol.

PetiovskiJun 9, 20151 votes

The problem I see is that you do typically draw minion aggro when you hit somebody with a ranged ability. However it is very easy to migrate the damage since it is ranged poke and you'll be typically near/behind your minions rather than practically on top of the enemy minions when you are a melee. That's why I think a lot of champs got the skill shot treatment, however the problem with the skill shot treatment is its like a mini buff to mobility champs and I'm not sure everybody likes this q.q

FalconPawwwwnchJun 9, 20153 votes

No you don't lol

The only thing that draws aggro is autoattacks

PetiovskiJun 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No you don't lol

The only thing that draws aggro is autoattacks

I think you got it a bit mixed up. Any sort of damage that you do to a champ will aggro enemy minions when you and the opponent are near them. Its similar concept to how towers aggro you except they have a larger range and don't move around like minions.

Example, GP, MF, Pre-rework Ryze, and Veigar shoots a enemy champ. The poking champ is in his minion wave (meaning in between caster and melee minions), opponent is roughly safe position. That shot dealing the damage will aggro the opposing minions.

What I was trying to get at is that minions tend to fight minions unless aggro'd, and that it is easier for ranged champ to avoid the aggro by being further away from the enemy minions.

Bodkins OddsJun 9, 20151 votes

Well, Akali & Shen Q's don't draw minion aggro, but I think those are special cases. Shen's Q does draw tower aggro though.

TotalJerkJun 9, 20151 votes

It's also a nerf to bushes and because they typically up the range, it makes the champion more pokey.

HadesBladesJun 9, 20151 votes

Minion pathing is as bad as it is right now, you could auto a champ and have a minion chase you from the middle of mid lane back to your tower. If you were to do that it would completely hurt champs that have a shitty early ( Akali ) and those that cant poke effectly early ( Akali )