The problem with Sightstone has started to occur to me

RookPusher··4 votes·976 views

And like almost everyone else, i'm using Jungler items as the basis for this.

Why is it that Jungler items give you stats, the functionality required of a jungle item (quicker clears), and some sort of ability that mirrors - item 3068 or item 3285. But Sightstone really doesn't? Furthermore, there are jungler talents that help clear jungle monsters, but when you look at the talents in the tree as a support, there's not much that helps you ward.

I can hear people saying "but it's not only the Supports job to ward" and I'm on board with that, but culturally it is. So unless wards start becoming a heavy requirement for getting an S, Riot doesn't seem to be terribly invested in changing this culture.

Therefore, Sightstone ought to have:

  • Stats
  • Wards
  • Some ability that would enhance their job and make up for slot-loss.

The biggest problem I see is that SS has a functional active. Which makes it hard to assign new abilities to it. But here's a few I think support might be able to use that are passive, and will help move them along in their progress to resolve the SS issue:

The following passive benefits should be assigned to one of 4 possible upgrades:

  • The passive from item 3026
  • The passive from item 3102
  • 20% CDR
  • +10% Movement Speed

Furthermore, at the bottom of the Cunning Tree, we should have a new Keystone called Warden's Resolve that allows for the SightStone to regenerate wards as the free Yellow does. And wards should slow all enemies that pass within X pixels of it.

27 Comments

Erockandroll3 votes

You mean the Eye items didn't already fix this by combining it with your gold gen item, Improving the slot efficiency? And even if you don't like the Eye items, There are other options that help the Support. If the support meta favors the use of Redemption and Locket, which are both Active cooldowns, then the Ruby sight stone which reduces item actives should be an excellent choice.

Also, I think Riot is more finicky about the whole vision game. Even if Riot wanted to buff Sight stone is some fashion (I'm some what indifferent on the matter) I highly doubt it will actually affect the supports ability to ward.

Sonasaurous3 votes

I wish they would make enchanted sightstones like they do with the jungle items.

(Warning: This turned into a long rant....)

Like, for junglers, they can build item 1039 and item 1041 into item 3706 item 3715 item 3711, but then also upgrade them with one of 4 enchantments (item 1416 item 1401 item 1402 item 1400) that allows for complete jungle diversity by offering specific items and specific enchantments to complement AP junglers (Runic Echo enchantment), AA or AS focused junglers (Bloodrazor), tanky junglers (Cinderhulk), and AD junglers (Warrior), while also giving basically a sightstone (item 3711), Smite soft CC (item 3706), or just extra damage to enemies (item 3715).

Meanwhile item 2049 itself just gives 150 HP and 3 stored wards (one more ward than item 3711) item 2045 gives 500 HP and 20% active item CDR (which complements item 3107 and item 3190 just fine), and stores 4 wards But that just creates a static build (which people are complaining about).

And sure, there are the "Eye" sightstone upgrades that combine the gold trinkets item 2301 gives 200 HP, 100% mana regen, 25 AP, 10% CDR, 2 gold per 10 secs, and stores 4 wards But this is generally taken by AP Mage Supports for item slot efficiency (So...Annie Malzahar maybe Zyra )

But why build item 2301 on traditional supports who need item 2045 because they have item 3107 and item 3190 and their primary focus isn't building AP? In that case, item 3092 is so much better because at least it has another active that synergies with item 2045, can safely scout out unwarded areas, or can be used to initiate or chase down enemies because of its slow.

Then there's item 2302, which I rarely see anyone build, and is just a stat item with wards (200 HP, 100% mana and HP regen, 10% CDR). item 3069 is such a situational stat item (45 Armor, 150% HP regen, 75% mana regen, 10% CDR) that gives a speed boost to your allies (but not yourself). Sometimes I build this on Janna or Soraka, but I'd personally rather build item 3092 for the vision and slow.

item 2303 is one of those items I'm pretty sure people forgot about. I think it was supposed to be the tank support sightstone item (with stats like 500 HP, 200% HP regen, 10% CDR, and 2 gold per 10 secs, and stores 4 wards). I personally don't play tanks, but normally I see tanks like Braum Leona Thresh building item 3401 for the significantly better active (shield on an ally that gives a slow to enemies) and the meh stats (450 HP, 100% HP regen, 10% CDR, 2 gold per 10 seconds).

Sure, the Eye upgrades sounded good in theory, but in practice item 2301 is overly prioritized, and even then, with the item 3107 + item 3190 meta, item 2045 becomes a must and one of the gold upgrades is prioritized instead.

Like...how terrible would it really be to just copy and paste the jungle enchantments onto item 2049?

item 2049's only stat is 150 HP, and the active is 3 wards. For 800 gold. In comparison, item 3711 costs 1000 gold (and builds from two items), helps the jungler with fighting jungle monsters with the unique passive, gives stats while in the jungle (10% lifesteal against monsters and 180% mana regen in the jungle), and gives 2 wards. Sure, for 200 more gold it gives less wards but stats that specifically helps the role its intended for. Then you have the enchantments which just add more stats.

Honestly, that's all item 2049 really needs, is the added enchantments. item 2049 + item 1416 = 150 HP, 50% AS, basic attacks deal 4% of the targets max HP in bonus AD, and 3 wards. (Good for AA supports--which don't exist really...BUT COULD (unless you build machine gun Lulu support)) item 2049 + item 1401 = 400 HP, 15% bonus HP, Immolate passive, and 3 wards. (Good for tank supports) item 2049 + item 1402 = 60 AP, 7% MS, Echo passive, and 3 wards. (Good for mage supports) item 2049 + item 1400 = 60 AD, 10% CDR, and 3 wards (Good for AD supports--which don't exist...BUT COULD).

Of course, then there's the argument: "BUT THEN OTHER ROLES WOULD START BUYING SIGHTSTONE FOR THEM STATS"

GOOD. LET THEM BUY IT. The only thing they won't get is gold income from the gold trinkets. According to Riot, THE WHOLE TEAM IS SUPPOSED TO BE WARDING. Maybe if item 2049 wasn't such a shit item, other roles would buy it too and ward more. (Otherwise, the only roles that have ward-specific items are JUNGLE AND SUPPORT).

Rákãñ1 votes

The AD/AS stats might find their way on to Leona and Taric though. Which may encourage those kinds of supports build item 3022 or item 3025. Though, I don't think it'll outclass or keep up with item 3107 + item 3190.

Sonasaurous2 votes

It would make for interesting support diversity, though. Every other MOBA has a support system in which literally any character can be played as support and can still be a hard carry. Except League, of course.

Nik Nikerson2 votes

It's everyone's responsibility to ward, which is why everyone gets a trinket, but can you actually think about the ramifications of having 20 wards down on the battlefield at a time? I don't think Riot is interested in there being that much coverage, particularly in pro-play.

BestSupportGold2 votes

I'm on board with half of this, for vision control purposes, it would be great to have a SS regen wards. The other side of the coin, is not to use all of them immediately, which I have been guilty of doing. It would also take some of the pressure off of Support players who can't leave lane to ward your lane. I think making it an upgrade from warden trinket for some Gold would make it good, it would free up another spot for another item. But late game, I guess you could argue that a SS is not as effective with death times being high.

RookPusher1 votes

Right, or there's less of an incentive to stay alive. That sounds a bit absurd, but as an example, I like taking a Warmogs when I tank because it allows me to stay int he field longer. Same with tear on supports.

BestSupportGold1 votes

{quoted}

Right, or there's less of an incentive to stay alive. That sounds a bit absurd, but as an example, I like taking a Warmogs when I tank because it allows me to stay int he field longer. Same with tear on supports.

I build a Warmogs on Soraka

TheSnacken2 votes

Hmm, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think a cheap GA is the way to go. Bear in mind that the unique passive on Ruby Sightstone is a -10% cooldown on item actives. The reason this was implemented was because a support's build always includes at least one, and nearly always includes 1-2 more.

When making changes like this, you've got to consider that A) Ruby Sightstone is already an item with a very high amount of utility (albeit non-combat utility) and B) what a support's game looks like. My own designs looked something like this:

Ruby sightstone (unchanged) Filigreed Sightstone- grants bonus movement speed toward allies, stronger when closer Petricite Sightstone- grants tenacity and regen when combat begins

Each provides unique strengths that fit into support playstyles, between eating abilities, roaming, and following up initiation, as well as the flexibility ruby sightstone adds to a build.

Warlord Scrap1 votes

i was think make sightsones other lanes can use similar to trackers knife is too jgers. Or bring back boot enchancements and add a sightstone boot enchancement

TheSnacken3 votes

Nnnnnnnnggggh yeah no. Look, I get the idea, and its not bad per-se, but there are bigger issues here.

Sightstone is a support item for a reason. What you're talking about is amplifying vision by making viable sightstones for everyone. More vision =/= a better game, especially to that degree. Its the whole reason stealth wards (the consumable, not the trinket) were removed from the game. MOBA's are a fair amount (probably 30%) psychological warfare. When you introduce that kind of vision, there's no ganking or juking. A lot of counterplay gets removed.

So there has to be a reason NOT to buy the sightstone. Which is, currently, its flat stat value bites. Your mid and ADC don't want it at all, and your top has better things to buy. Your jg might take it because Tracker's Knife doesn't put them in an overly large power deficit. Supports couldn't care less, because their kit is 85% utility anyway.

Warlord Scrap1 votes

well would you prefer if they kept sightstone as is but added a mastery allowing sightstone to recharge maybe as a tier 2 cunning

TheSnacken1 votes

Absolutely. That part was great. I'd probably slot it in over Runic Affinity, personally. Too niche.

Warlord Scrap1 votes

my only thing is it feels tier 4 in strength but supps need bandit and could they afford the sightstone buff over bandit

TheSnacken1 votes

You would make it regen slowly, that wouldn't be a problem. Maybe a new one every 100-120s. (That sounds like a lot, but it isn't). I'd make it apply to Tracker's Knife, too. To make up for Runic Affinity a little.

Warlord Scrap1 votes

i feel like it would have to be a tad over lvl 1 trinket so like 140

TheSnacken1 votes

Sounds legit. I'd send it to the playtest team.

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

soo a talent point that gives supports and extra vision ward or stealth ward would be pretty cool but it would have to be a keystone so that others can't abuse it

RookPusher1 votes

It's ok, you can say it. It needs to be a Keystone or else it's a Lee Sin buff.

Mizuki Zahra1 votes

I forgot about Lee sin lol I was thinking more for mids takeing it and having both bushes and then some warded 24/7

Linna Excel1 votes

RSS: now with +10% more heal and shield power.

RookPusher1 votes

First of all, I love that some maladapted basement dweller came in here and downvoted 70% of the posts.

Secondly, I thought about the +10% option, but some supports don't have either.

boo9101 votes

how about a new starter item for supports

doran's amulet

gives about 1/2 the ap from dorans rings and 50 health

also carries 2 ward charges

500g

think about it, you can have 3 wards out with warding trinket, and midlaners would take ring cause better stats

Nik Nikerson1 votes

The biggest problem this faces is how powerful vision is as an ability. If you start attaching relevant stats and abilities to SS (and because it's a support item, those stats are going to have to be cost effective), it's going to start showing up in EVERY lane. Now I'm not going to argue that having 2-4 vision items per team is for sure a bad thing, but I don't think Riot wants that much vision in the game.

I do agree though, something should be done to make SS more appealing.

RookPusher2 votes

Yeah, the problem with the power of vision is that the lower in the ranks you go, the less powerful is it. And that's not a reason to dismiss what you've said, but if the resolution isn't more wards, then frankly they should scrap the SS all together as an item and put the emphasis on everyone to ward.

The Sword Saint1 votes

Lol wtf is with the massive amount of buffs you want to give at the same time. Balance needs to be done with a light touch as small changes have huge rippling impacts. Any one of your suggestions would tip bot lane on its head and require serious tuning.

RookPusher1 votes

yes, lets not ruffle the pristine feathers of the S7 botlane

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