Passive----> weak 
Passive----> Weak 
Yet we see no rework on both passive to make them unique by all means, both passive just the item a little weaker and it sucks it like to balance champions they need a mini rework on passive like what they done to 
skills yet it never happen.
Sire Hippington5 votesPassive beeing very similar to item effects is rather common though
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ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-12T11:05:36.414+0000)
Passive beeing very similar to item effects is rather common though
But compare item to passive it almost same power while garen and wukong are wdy weaker than item
redniwediS1 votesThey should be weaker, because they are very strong effects that are not taking up an item slot.
Sire Hippington1 votesGarens is stronger than warmongs as it isn't disabled by minions and monsters and kicks in faster post 11, while it also gives some decent sustain from the very start instead of beeing gated by 2850g and a 3k hp threshold. It also allows Garen to NOT buy waromngs and instead get another item while still haveing compareable out of combat sustain.
Wukongs passive is better 1 and 2 opponents and as strong against all 5, and again, there is a difference between haveing to comit gold and an item slot for the effect and haveing it baseline. If resistences weren't as usless overall these days, his passive wouldn't be so bad. Also, not all passives have to be equally strong, it's the entire kit that counts, and for some the passive is weaker so the rest can be stronger.
Also, the items also have differenet power on their effects, and both Warmongs and stonplate have rather strong effects, especially warmongs.
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-08-12T19:08:49.264+0000)
Garens is stronger than warmongs as it isn't disabled by minions and monsters and kicks in faster post 11, while it also gives some decent sustain from the very start instead of beeing gated by 2850g and a 3k hp threshold. It also allows Garen to NOT buy waromngs and instead get another item while still haveing compareable out of combat sustain.
Wukongs passive is better 1 and 2 opponents and as strong against all 5, and again, there is a difference between haveing to comit gold and an item slot for the effect and haveing it baseline. If resistences weren't as usless overall these days, his passive wouldn't be so bad. Also, not all passives have to be equally strong, it's the entire kit that counts, and for some the passive is weaker so the rest can be stronger.
Also, the items also have differenet power on their effects, and both Warmongs and stonplate have rather strong effects, especially warmongs.
I know that but i mean isn't that called a lazy design ? Like you legit just copy paste a weaker status from item and put it in passive, nothing special and special in case of wukong it just doesn't fit around his weird kit at all.
Sire Hippington1 votesNot at all, Garen and WU for example had their passives WAAAAAAY befor those items ever existed, and those effects give them an intendet inate strength.
Wukong was ment to be a fighter that has high teamfigth potential and a worse 1v1 compared to other fighters, so his passive gives little vs a single target and high resists(back in the day 40/40 actually was high) duering teamfights, while his ult gives him utillity and aoe damage for teamfights. His passive is there so he can go for more agressive bruiser builts and still be tanky enough to sit in the enemy team with his ult in teamfights. Ofc right now his damage just bursts a squishy and his passive does nothing to prolong his live in a teamfight against the redicolous damage thrown at him. But back when he was designed, his passive worked well in both design and power for makeing him a teamfighting diver.
The execution might not be uptodate, but the concept of that passive is fine and it inspired serveral masteries and stonepalte
Garen is ment to be a tierless Warrior that just keeps on going, and his passive allows him to just do that, he might need a tactical retreat every now and once, but he can stay on the map all the time and the only reacon to back is shopping.
I really don't see an issue with champion-passives and item effects beeing similar, as long as the passive makes sense for the champions kit and adds to the gameplay. Why not re-use a proofen design if you want to achive the goals that you know it will achive? Since passives are not existing isolated but always in the context of a champions kit, all that matters is that the overall kit has a unique enough feel to it, even if single parts are borrowed from other stuff. For some wierd Analogie: Would you say a Mai Tai and a Pina Colada are sufficiently different drinks apealing to differnt tastes? Because they buff use rum, so that's rather lazy, wouldn't you say?
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T19:22:16.470+0000)
Not at all, Garen and WU for example had their passives WAAAAAAY befor those items ever existed, and those effects give them an intendet inate strength.
Wukong was ment to be a fighter that has high teamfigth potential and a worse 1v1 compared to other fighters, so his passive gives little vs a single target and high resists(back in the day 40/40 actually was high) duering teamfights, while his ult gives him utillity and aoe damage for teamfights. His passive is there so he can go for more agressive bruiser builts and still be tanky enough to sit in the enemy team with his ult in teamfights. Ofc right now his damage just bursts a squishy and his passive does nothing to prolong his live in a teamfight against the redicolous damage thrown at him. But back when he was designed, his passive worked well in both design and power for makeing him a teamfighting diver.
The execution might not be uptodate, but the concept of that passive is fine and it inspired serveral masteries and stonepalte
Garen is ment to be a tierless Warrior that just keeps on going, and his passive allows him to just do that, he might need a tactical retreat every now and once, but he can stay on the map all the time and the only reacon to back is shopping.
I really don't see an issue with champion-passives and item effects beeing similar, as long as the passive makes sense for the champions kit and adds to the gameplay. Why not re-use a proofen design if you want to achive the goals that you know it will achive? Since passives are not existing isolated but always in the context of a champions kit, all that matters is that the overall kit has a unique enough feel to it, even if single parts are borrowed from other stuff. For some wierd Analogie: Would you say a Mai Tai and a Pina Colada are sufficiently different drinks apealing to differnt tastes? Because they buff use rum, so that's rather lazy, wouldn't you say?
Well wukong as you said right now just use his kit to burst squishy and his passive are complete useless in team fights cause the damage in game is so high.
That where my question come why not riot give his passive a mini rework like how they done a mini rework to xin last year, to make him more willing to build bruiser items and fit into the meta without being so toxic as in term of he just burst damage and die quickly in trade for that,
Special as i said that just way better version of his passive, atleast garen passive still decent to the fact he can engage and disengage from fights easily while his manaless kit allow his passive to work will.
SugeMinPikk1 votesI know that but i mean isn't that called a lazy design ?
Garen's passive came first, buddy. Warmogs used to give max HP based on your CS.
ValiantKiller1 votesGaren's passive came first, buddy. Warmogs used to give max HP based on your CS.
Well then that is weird they just take a passive from champion that suppose to make him unique and just past it with better values into item.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesGaren already had a visual update and mini rework with the Juggernaut update, as well as some major changes a few patches ago so a rework for him is unlikely.
Wukong, however, should definitely get a rework.
He's more Assassin than Fighter at this point.
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-12T10:10:07.624+0000)
Garen already had a visual update and mini rework with the Juggernaut update, as well as some major changes a few patches ago so a rework for him is unlikely.
Wukong, however, should definitely get a rework.
He's more Assassin than Fighter at this point.
But doesn't his passive feel like weaker version of a item which make it kinda niche and just lazy repeat?
Warlord Rhinark1 votesBut doesn't his passive feel like weaker version of a item which make it kinda niche and just lazy repeat?
It does.
I never said that I think the passive should stay.
I just said that a rework is unlikely.
ValiantKiller2 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T10:18:45.182+0000)
It does.
I never said that I think the passive should stay.
I just said that a rework is unlikely.
Well it just sucks to see two champions passive just can be repeated with better effect on other champions.
Just 4 Memes1 votesI wish they would leave Wukong's kit and just rework the passive.
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Wukong Zenith,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-12T10:17:11.578+0000)
I wish they would leave Wukong's kit and just rework the passive.
If they reworked his passive to something fit this diver theme or to make good use of his w aside from hiding and one shot people, then he will be a less toxic champion and people will stop hating but nah it just useless passive that is repeated in other item with better effect.
Pandemic Punch1 votesI forgot Wukong had that passive. LOL!! It doesn't even feel like he gets resistances when I lane against him. He needs a new passive for sure.
I like Garen's passive though. It complements his "easy to play" identity and is extremely helpful. When he gets to level 11 it starts entering the OP territory. It is cool to have a champion who can build full offense and still have a warmog's passive. His damage is possibly over tuned at the moment, but that is another argument.
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VszARTja,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-12T10:59:30.387+0000)
I forgot Wukong had that passive. LOL!! It doesn't even feel like he gets resistances when I lane against him. He needs a new passive for sure.
I like Garen's passive though. It complements his "easy to play" identity and is extremely helpful. When he gets to level 11 it starts entering the OP territory. It is cool to have a champion who can build full offense and still have a warmog's passive. His damage is possibly over tuned at the moment, but that is another argument.
Well yah i don't care much about but like item called stone and wukong passive called stone yet wukong version is way weaker
Sharpest glasses1 votesWhy do u want to rework their passive, when their whole kits sucks ?
ValiantKiller1 votesWhy do u want to rework their passive, when their whole kits sucks ?
Well cause it the easiest thing to do im utility the whole kit