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The term hyper carry gets used so loosely in League of Legends

HateDaddy··3 votes·1,696 views

And the majority of the time, it's wrong.

Jinx is not a hyper carry, Cait is not a hyper carry, Trist is not a hyper carry. Even the infinite scalers, for realistic purposes, aren't hyper carries - obviously at 5000 stacks, Nasus and Veigar are going to kill everything but that's never going to happen in a real game. Even at 1000 stacks, Nasus can still easily lose and be dealt with. Even with 1500 AP, Veigar can still be dove and blown up.

There is only one hyper carry in league of legends and that's Poppy. A hyper carry is a champion, that after a certain point with items/levels, is going to completey carry the game on their own by the nature of their kit. Poppy is legit the only hyper carry in this game. She's the only champion that you can know, come a certain amount of items/levels, she's going to kill one of your carries if not both. But even then, it's on the weaker side because a support Morg or Janna can still peel her for the duration of her ult, so even then she's on the weaker side of what you'd consider a true hyper carry (which I believe the term comes from DOTA and DOTA is nothing but zero counterplay overtuned/overpowered BS).

There are definitely champions who can hard carry but they still need protection or are extremely comp dependent. But league has gotten so far away from "champion purchases X items and the game is now over" that I don't think you can even use the term anymore honestly. And believe me, that's a good thing. It's pretty lame auto losing once a champion gets a certain amount of items.

24 Comments

Anonagon4 votes

In League, "hypercarry" simply means what "carry" means in DOTA: lategame. In League, you are a "carry" if you deal damage and a "hypercarry" if you are at your damage peak lategame. In DOTA, you are a carry if you scale into lategame, and a hypercarry if you can 1v5.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

In League, "hypercarry" simply means what "carry" means in DOTA: lategame. In League, you are a "carry" if you deal damage and a "hypercarry" if you are at your damage peak lategame. In DOTA, you are a carry if you scale into lategame, and a hypercarry if you can 1v5.

I think it's pretty silly for it to have two different meanings, just call them what they are in league: carries or even use the phrase hard carry. Nobody in league outside of poppy is going to 1v5.

dragonboytsubasa2 votes

Not really. I mean yes Poppy is definitely a hyper carry and here's hoping Rito keeps her that way after her rework. However to me Kogmaw, Master Yi, Tristana, Twitch and Vayne also qualify as hyper carries, at least by Anonagon's definition. However, I also think Draven is another possible candidate for hyper carry status.

I heard that people have been calling Jinx a hyper carry as well but I disagree with that. Sure she has a strong late game but her base attack speed is too low and coupled with her rocket launcher only getting the mini gun's attack speed bonus for its first 2 hits, she just can't deal as much sustained damage as the other mentioned hyper carries to warrant for that status.

BluePolarizer2 votes

even in dota only 6 slotted void that lands a perfect ult can 1v5. not even 6 slotted terrorblade can 1v5 reliably but can definitely 1v2 or 1v3.

Vayne and Tristana can easily 1v3. Jax, Tryndamere and Yi can also 1v3.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

even in dota only 6 slotted void that lands a perfect ult can 1v5. not even 6 slotted terrorblade can 1v5 reliably but can definitely 1v2 or 1v3.

Vayne and Tristana can easily 1v3. Jax, Tryndamere and Yi can also 1v3.

They can 1v2 and possibly 1v3 in skirmishes but not in straight up 5v5 fights. That's not really unique, a lot of champions can 1v2/1v3 in skirmishes with the right circumstances. With that logic, 1/3rd of the roster are hyper carries, which they aren't.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

They can 1v2 and possibly 1v3 in skirmishes but not in straight up 5v5 fights. That's not really unique, a lot of champions can 1v2/1v3 in skirmishes with the right circumstances. With that logic, 1/3rd of the roster are hyper carries, which they aren't.

Tryndamere can 1v3 three full health enemies who come to gank him, kill them, then spin through a wall. Assuming he has full build. That's what he means.

Not many champions can claim to do that. Darius can do that, but only if he has snowballed hard in the early to mid game. Tryndamere can do that purely by virtue of being in the late game. That's what makes his hyper carry credentials better than someone like Darius'.

I've 1v3'd as Master Yi in the late game as well (and I wasn't doing particularly well).

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere can 1v3 three full health enemies who come to gank him, kill them, then spin through a wall. Assuming he has full build. That's what he means.

Not many champions can claim to do that. Darius can do that, but only if he has snowballed hard in the early to mid game. Tryndamere can do that purely by virtue of being in the late game. That's what makes his hyper carry credentials better than someone like Darius'.

I've 1v3'd as Master Yi in the late game as well (and I wasn't doing particularly well).

That's skirmishing, that's not teamfighting where you would just dive in, collect kills and dive out. That's not "hyper carrying" because there's several champions who can fight off ganks and turn them around in 1v2, 1v3 situations that are skirmish based and aren't really coordinated, 5v5 fights - which is where a hyper carry is supposed to shine.

SlytherinUmbreon1 votes

I'm not terribly familiar with Dota's definition, but from what you're describing would Suicide Karthus be a 'hyper carry?'

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not terribly familiar with Dota's definition, but from what you're describing would Suicide Karthus be a 'hyper carry?'

Karthus is the second closest champion in this game to a hyper carry because a 6 item karthus is probably the hardest thing in the game to beat.

Miraweave1 votes

{quoted}

even in dota only 6 slotted void that lands a perfect ult can 1v5. not even 6 slotted terrorblade can 1v5 reliably but can definitely 1v2 or 1v3.

Vayne and Tristana can easily 1v3. Jax, Tryndamere and Yi can also 1v3.

Yeah Poppy is one of those things that would actually be more absurd in dota.

Seriously. Imagine poppy in a game that's nearly guaranteed to get to the lategame, where everyone else has mana costs like hers. Yeah.

HexSketch2 votes

im pretty sure that we just consider a hyper carry to be a champion that at late game is "stronger than your average carry", something in their kit allows them to be more threatening than most any other champion in the game if put in the same situation. I dont think a hyper part is forced on simply the role of adc or mid laner either.

Tristana "was" a hyper carry ,boasting longer ranges and attackspeed combinations than any other champion in the game. However they removed her range which removed that status alltogether. jinx was never a hyper carry, just strong. Veigar is not a hypercarry, simply because his kit revolves around killing "1" enemy. you cant carry if your main purpose is only to affect 1 other enemy and then shrink back to a secondary role on the team.

In my mind kog maw is a hyper carry, sure you can blow him up, but that is simply because of the nature of the champion, he is an adc, he is not meant to be tanky, but when he is played as his position intends him to be played, he can outshine many others, he has the range, and the damage to effectively win a game as long as he utilized his kit and advantages properly, he has the potential to eliminate any threat in short time.

I dont think you need to be able to 1v3 or 1v5 to be called a hyper carry, you simply need to overachieve the natural goals of the role the champion fits into.

So i think that these are current hypercarries:

Hyper Adc: Kog'maw

Hyper Bruisers: Poppy

Hyper Tank: Sejuani, Nasus

I consider all of them under the catagory of "Hyper Carry", they all excel at their role, and when the late game comes around their true potential is made clear. Nasus is intended to be a tank, at the same time he can deal out heavy damage if farmed. the fact that he also boasts the strongest most consistent slow in the game and the nature of his build path and damage dealt is what makes him in my eyes a hyper carry, he not only excels at being a powerful frontliner but ultimatly succeeds and demolishing any key objective in the game, including baron, and towers. Poppy has the ult that seperates her from tryndamere, the difference between the 2 champion methods of play are small but 1 skill defines what makes her a hyper carry and him just a regular carry. Kog maw Is the highest range AA champion in the game, who boasts high hybrid damage, the fact that he deals two forms of damage with percent shred makes him a hyper carry. And finally I consider sejuani to be the first Hyper tank that can carry a game through sheer utility. Her ban rate is not there merely because she is over hyped. she brings something that other tanks do not, and its not just damage. she excels at doing her job of being in the face of the enemy teams, she can absorb massive amounts of damage, she deals out percent hp, Multiple forms of CC and Aoe CC, i believe that on her own a late game sejuani can hold off an entire team on her own for quite some time. to not call her a hyper carry at this point i think is a bit strange.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

im pretty sure that we just consider a hyper carry to be a champion that at late game is "stronger than your average carry", something in their kit allows them to be more threatening than most any other champion in the game if put in the same situation. I dont think a hyper part is forced on simply the role of adc or mid laner either.

Tristana "was" a hyper carry ,boasting longer ranges and attackspeed combinations than any other champion in the game. However they removed her range which removed that status alltogether. jinx was never a hyper carry, just strong. Veigar is not a hypercarry, simply because his kit revolves around killing "1" enemy. you cant carry if your main purpose is only to affect 1 other enemy and then shrink back to a secondary role on the team.

In my mind kog maw is a hyper carry, sure you can blow him up, but that is simply because of the nature of the champion, he is an adc, he is not meant to be tanky, but when he is played as his position intends him to be played, he can outshine many others, he has the range, and the damage to effectively win a game as long as he utilized his kit and advantages properly, he has the potential to eliminate any threat in short time.

I dont think you need to be able to 1v3 or 1v5 to be called a hyper carry, you simply need to overachieve the natural goals of the role the champion fits into.

So i think that these are current hypercarries:

Hyper Adc: Kog'maw

Hyper Bruisers: Poppy

Hyper Tank: Sejuani, Nasus

I consider all of them under the catagory of "Hyper Carry", they all excel at their role, and when the late game comes around their true potential is made clear. Nasus is intended to be a tank, at the same time he can deal out heavy damage if farmed. the fact that he also boasts the strongest most consistent slow in the game and the nature of his build path and damage dealt is what makes him in my eyes a hyper carry, he not only excels at being a powerful frontliner but ultimatly succeeds and demolishing any key objective in the game, including baron, and towers. Poppy has the ult that seperates her from tryndamere, the difference between the 2 champion methods of play are small but 1 skill defines what makes her a hyper carry and him just a regular carry. Kog maw Is the highest range AA champion in the game, who boasts high hybrid damage, the fact that he deals two forms of damage with percent shred makes him a hyper carry. And finally I consider sejuani to be the first Hyper tank that can carry a game through sheer utility. Her ban rate is not there merely because she is over hyped. she brings something that other tanks do not, and its not just damage. she excels at doing her job of being in the face of the enemy teams, she can absorb massive amounts of damage, she deals out percent hp, Multiple forms of CC and Aoe CC, i believe that on her own a late game sejuani can hold off an entire team on her own for quite some time. to not call her a hyper carry at this point i think is a bit strange.

I wouldn't consider them hyper carries in any sense because they can't just straight up win teamfignts and kill everyone through the sheer power of their kits alone.

Kog needs to be protected. If you protect him, he kills an entire team. But he needs to be protected, he can't just straight up kill everything without assistance for his team.

Nasus is immobile and while he's a monster at killing objectives and dueling, his teamfight is a bit lackluster as he's easily kited and peeled and is hard countered by QSS/Mikeals. He's a decent front liner, but if you're picking him to front line alone, there are much better picks. But no tank can shread a front line the way he can, but he's pretty average as a tank for damage soaking so by comparison, he dies much faster than tanks like Sion, Alistar, Maokai, Mundo, Leona, etc.

Sejunai is extremely powerful in fights and her mix of utility, durability and damage is amongst the best of all the tanks. But she needs her teams to follow up, she's not going to do it all herself and kill them, and that's the potential a true hyper carry has, which nobody in league outside of poppy has.

Don't get me wrong - there are incredibly powerful late game champions that, with the comps, basically win the game after a certain point. But that's what makes league so great, you need comps to do it and even if it seems so simple, the execution isn't straight forward. Because of that fact, I can't say any champion outside of poppy has hyper carry potential.

Overall, there's probably nothing wrong with using the word hyper carry but I don't see why we'd take the term that means something entirely different than what it actually is based on who we apply it to when we could just call them hard carries. I wouldnt consider a true hyper carry a heathly design in league and its not coincidence that the closest thing to a hyper carry in this game also has the most broken kit.

HexSketch1 votes

i see your point, i would more rather call them "hard" carries as well, seems to fit more.

roroer1 votes

Tryndamere

Also poppy ult makes her cc immune, so how does a support stop her for the duration of her ult? (atleast to everyone that isn't the target)

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere

Also poppy ult makes her cc immune, so how does a support stop her for the duration of her ult? (atleast to everyone that isn't the target)

Why would she ult the target she's trying to kill? I could see ulting an immobile carry but she's not going to ult a Vayne or trist, they'll just knock her back and kite her. Typically she ults the lowest damage dealer or the least cc heavy champion on the enemy team

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere

Also poppy ult makes her cc immune, so how does a support stop her for the duration of her ult? (atleast to everyone that isn't the target)

Because the support is typically the ult target due to having the least damage.

Reminds me of the time a Poppy ulted our Nautilus, who proceeded to hold her in place until her ult was up. Then I killed her (I was playing Darius or something).

roroer1 votes

doesn't poppy ult increase her damage on the target she ults? I thought you would want to ult the target that is trying to run from you so that everyone else wastes everything trying to stop you while you're cc immune.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

doesn't poppy ult increase her damage on the target she ults? I thought you would want to ult the target that is trying to run from you so that everyone else wastes everything trying to stop you while you're cc immune.

Nobody is going to waste anything on her while she's ulted a target, they're just going to try and kite the rest of her team out and kill her when her ult burns off.

Some champions, yes, absolutely she can straight up just dive and murder no contest. But if she ults a Vayne or Trist, she'll be dead before she can even realistically get in range of them. Even a Varus or Ashe with built in self-peel can at least force her to build QSS and up until that point, she can be dealt with while it's probably a good idea for them to invest in GA at some point.

SlytherinUmbreon1 votes

Our Lord and Savior, Poppy

Ratbert1 votes

Kayle can do this to an extent.

Only Play Darius1 votes

MasterYi Katarina Fiora Vayne Twitch

Hyper carries are not a dying breed, they are alive and well.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VsZu2E4Q,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-05-29T21:57:51.066+0000)

MasterYi Katarina Fiora Vayne Twitch

Hyper carries are not a dying breed, they are alive and well.

All of the above can be cc'd and die instantly. Not a single one of those are even close to what a hyper carry is. 3 of them are clean up assassins, one of them is a short tanged mobile champ who depends on kiting/re-engaging rinse and repeat and is extremely prone to being bursted due to her short range and the last is immobile and easily dove.

UltraSceptile1 votes

Vayne and jinx are hypercarries, old tristana was too. Jax is a hypercarry as well. Poppy as you mentioned also is a hypecarry. Yasuo too.

A hypercarry in League isn't something that can solo 1 v 5 but have massive potential to literally put the entire team on their back (not literal 1 v 5 but almost) if they are fed enough. The champions listed above are able to output massive sustained damage and have the necessary tools in their kit to avoid danger if played well.

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