How to fixe Twitch Kog and Tristana

Ahristocats··10 votes·724 views

so those 3 champions have a massive popularity+win rate+ban rate in high elo

i just wanted to share an opinion on how one can fixe them

KogMaw Let's start with this dude. Kog's problem is how through itemization (frozen mallet, ninja tabi, GA, Maw, witsend) he can become a 710 range bruiser that draintank(bork,guinsoo,runnan,ardent,maw) in AOE and shred everything so fast like a marksman. His kit also doesn't allow for counterplay as most of his power are in his Q passive and W rightclicks+on hit effects given by items. In my opinion riot should shift a lot of power from kog's rightclicks to his abilities

Base stats: -base attack speed increased from 0.665 to 0.7 -attack speed per level reduced from 2.65 to 1.8

goal of those changes: reducing kog's damage if he goes bruiser, and forces him to buy more attack speed than 2 or 3 items base attack speed increased to reward kog for buying more attack speed

same treatment than tank Yasuo

Caustic Spittle:- no longer passively gives +15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35% bonus attack speed -active now also gives kog + 15/25/25/30/35% attack speed for 4 seconds if he hits a champion

Void Ooze:-mana cost reduced from 80/90/100/110/120 to 80/85/90/95/100 -slow rescalled to 40/43/46/49/52%

Living Artillery: -range increased from 1200/1500/1800 to 1400/1600/2000 -now has an area indicator

goal of the changes: shift kog's damage from rightclicking with Q passive to spells with counterplay. Dodging Q will now reduce kog's damage even more. Kog's Q passive and W active are way too strong that some kog players do not skill E at all. Which is why his E should be improved, it costs too much mana and the slow in initial ranks is weak. Finally, his ult range is increased to improve his Artillery theme

Twitch is essentially a better assassin while also being ranged. Twitch does not leave any counterplay to his enemies while also not leaving much time to react

Ambush: detection radius increased to 575 to be leave a little time to react before twitch hits you twitch can now use Q again to put an end to Ambush

Spray and pray: - can no longer be used while stealthed -now requieres twitch to wait 0.75 second after ambush ends to be aviable

Tristana way too safe in early game, leaving a free pass for the rest of the game as a hypercarry

Rocket jump: mana cost increased from 60 at all ranks to 100 at all ranks

note: would be the same mana cost than Corki walkyrie, which seems fair to me because corki W doesn't slow in aoe (unless package) and has less range (something like 600 while tristana is a 800 range jump)

22 Comments

UnboundHades3 votes

i really wish people would comment if they downvoted

Penns2 votes

Doesnt kogs base atk speed need to be lower than that if you want him to build it more tho?

also nerf item 3087 item 3031 item 3094 hehe

Ahristocats1 votes

no it's the opposite

tank yasuo received the same treatment, they lowered his %as/lvl to force him to build as, and increased the base AS to reward him for building more as

FYI attack speed effectiveness on your champion depends on your base as

however, do not think that +0.005 base attack speed can make up for -13%as at lvl 18 just with 2 as items

PopcornBunni1 votes

{quoted}

Doesnt kogs base atk speed need to be lower than that if you want him to build it more tho?

also nerf item 3087 item 3031 item 3094 hehe

This would do more than enough to bring a lot of the problems with Marksmen in line.

Reduce item 3087 damage, remove crits from its passive, and increase the % damage against minions

Lower the damage on item 3094, increase damage against structures

Lower item 3031 AD, increase price. IE should never be in a situation where it is a first purchase.

Zone of Endless1 votes

That's a pretty hefty cost for trist's W. Maybe just give her mana cost back on Q again.

Ahristocats1 votes

i don't know corki W mana cost got increased to 100 one time cuz he was too safe

V5.1 Valkyrie Mana cost increased to 100 from 50.

riot can do the same to trist

Rathar Dashing1 votes

I'm surprised by your suggestion, but I actually found it pretty reasonable amongst all the people yelling to nerf Tristana because she can actually be played now.

Something you could do with it is make it so that it does cost more, maybe 100 like you said, but it refunds some of its mana if you get the reset off, or if you land on a champion. This would encourage aggressive uses of it, allowing her to retain her more risky jumps/plays, but punish her more for just jumping under tower when a threat is nearby or after her engage. Being able to use less E's in lane hurts Trist a lot, for both damage, zoning, and CS reasons.

Rewt1 votes

These seem fine, but the twitch one just seems clunky more than anything.

Ahristocats1 votes

they did this to assassins, they made them clunkier to give counterplay why not do the same to twitch?

jwebb01131 votes

buff cait so she is viable

Ahristocats1 votes

so cait being in an ok state will: -not make trist so safe anymore -will give counterplay to twitch -will give counterplay to kog as well as stopping him from building bruiser

seems like a strong logic to me

perhaps the logic u seek is: balance themby making cait overpowered again so kog/twitch/trist players play cait again so kog/twitch/trist aren't played that much anymore

jwebb01131 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vpqaa8AE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-08-20T21:42:38.262+0000)

so cait being in an ok state will: -not make trist so safe anymore -will give counterplay to twitch -will give counterplay to kog as well as stopping him from building bruiser

seems like a strong logic to me

perhaps the logic u seek is: balance themby making cait overpowered again so kog/twitch/trist players play cait again so kog/twitch/trist aren't played that much anymore

well sometimes the evil you know is better then the evil you dont...

if you knew cait is busted so to say and it kept these other adcs in check due to it... then you only have to worry over 1 adc instead of Draven Tristana Twitch KogMaw Vayne

Partybringer1 votes

When i jungle i hate having to gank Tristana . same with Ziggs in that you show up only for them to immediately be under tower basically wasting your time Edit:Camille too

Grimspeake1 votes

{quoted}

When i jungle i hate having to gank Tristana . same with Ziggs in that you show up only for them to immediately be under tower basically wasting your time Edit:Camille too

Ya ur laner needs to bait their shit cuz its really high cooldowns and will give u about a 15-20 second window to jump on them or just save ur dash for theres and make sure u come from behind them.

egoSniper1 votes

Trist jump should also not reset on kill. There's no reason for that bit of power to exist on her, if she uses it offensively she should be in for the long haul just like every other ADC with a mobility skill. She also has potentially the longest base range in the game so why would she need the reset to chase people, that's just too much.

Alternatively, make it so you can actually catch her... her huge ult knockback is pretty silly to have on a champ with a resetting jump skill.

Kog changes look good, well-thought out IMO. Twitch, not sure about, Ambush Spray-and-Pray is kind of his thing so the 0.75s lockout seems really harsh. Maybe using it just breaks his stealth instead?

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=55 Monk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vpqaa8AE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-08-20T21:59:15.981+0000)

Maybe using it just breaks his stealth instead?

that wouldn't leave time to react

AirKingNeo1 votes

Maybe a better change to Twitch would be reducing the R range from 800 to 700 and increasing the piercing decrease for champions only (so it doesn't fuck him up when he's hitting minions).

Also remove Shiv+RFC existing together. You can only buy 1 of the two would fix it.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe a better change to Twitch would be reducing the R range from 800 to 700

how does it give him time to react

AirKingNeo1 votes

You don't. Just it means high range ADCs positioning properly aren't hit and the other change I listed (damage reduced for attacks whenever they pierce) would also means backlines don't get oneshot through a frontline.

Mizaya1 votes

These are all the changes needed, imo.

item 3087 Damage changed to 80 - 260. Can no longer crit. Does 100% bonus damage to minions, but AoE radius is smaller for spreading to champions (can still go through minions to champs)

Twitch W mana cost increase, 90 sounds alright.

Not sure yet about Kog, have to look more into builds.

Ahristocats1 votes

wut? how is that shiv nerf going to fixe kog?

NippleusMaximus1 votes

Real talk if they nerfed KogMaw Tristana Twitch

Wouldn't these guys's Ashe Jinx Kalista Sivir Just be back on top like they have in past seasons.

The ADC meta is probably what is changed the most due to all the problems the role causes.

I mean the whole game is kinda based around this role.

The day when every marksman is balanced and equally viable is the day half life 3 comes out.

More from Gameplay

More by Ahristocats