.. what? Fervor is the problem Riot. Why do you think many champions that should be opting into the resolve tree are opting into the ferocity tree? The resolve tree sucks and you just made it worse by removing a mastery that everyone was fine with.
RiotMeddler26 votesWe've got more mastery changes coming, hopefully those will hit the PBE tomorrow. They include Fervor changes, that both nerf it overall and make it less generalized.
Ralanr21 votesWe've got more mastery changes coming, hopefully those will hit the PBE tomorrow. They include Fervor changes, that both nerf it overall and make it less generalized.
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/c6/c6ec07acba126c1a11b63a95c385b845095fbad9a74de2e8168637dcbe28ede2.jpg
metaworldpeace102 votesgood to know thanks!
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesyou do realize no matter what changes you make with league that people are gonna bitch and cry that riot is stupid and has no clue how to fix the game
Ralanr6 votesI don't think Riot cares.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteschances are they dont ... that is why they didnt respond but it isnt riot at fault its the cry baby give me what i want community who is to blame
Edge of Daybreak7 votesWe've got more mastery changes coming, hopefully those will hit the PBE tomorrow. They include Fervor changes, that both nerf it overall and make it less generalized.
Nerfing something because it becomes general doesnt seem like it would get anywhere. Something is always going to be the best so long as you have masteries that provide raw stats and damage. What about thunderlords? What happens if that colossus mastery becomes overused?
RiotMeddler12 votesSome designs are equally useful to anyone, others are more valuable for specific conditions. Courage of the Colossus for example triggers on hard CC, which skews it towards some champs more than others and locks some out entirely. The shield's also partially based off your max HP, so how much health you expect to have needs to factor into the decision of whether or not to take it to. Maximum possible number of users is somewhat restricted as a result.
Thunderlords does have some issues as a generalized mastery. It's not as general as health is, but still pretty general. Ideally we'd want better distinction between it, DFT and Fervor as the damage masteries, still working on that though (some changes coming, probably needs more work though).
Nameless Voice6 votesSpeaking of Thunderlord's, are there any plans for the strange interaction it has with on-hit effects, such as Lux's passive, where it triggers from two attacks instead of three?
That feels unintuitive for a mastery that's supposed to be about comboing three attacks - some champions only need to attack twice - and I also wonder if those edge cases skew the power budget of those champions (and e.g. force those champions to take that mastery?)
VictoriousBard6 votes[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VoMdBZTH,comment-id=0000000300000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T00:25:28.592+0000)
Speaking of Thunderlord's, are there any plans for the strange interaction it has with on-hit effects, such as Lux's passive, where it triggers from two attacks instead of three?
That feels unintuitive for a mastery that's supposed to be about comboing three attacks - some champions only need to attack twice - and I also wonder if those edge cases skew the power budget of those champions (and e.g. force those champions to take that mastery?)
They should at least make it consistent. Bard gets to do it with Q + auto, Kayle can do it with Q + E auto, while Lulu has to get off EQ + auto to trigger it. It actually only triggers that way if the auto attack enhancement is NOT an on-hit effect. Lux, Kayle, and Bard's all count as separate spell effects that happen to be triggered by auto-attacks for the purpose of TLD for some reason.
Awoof1 votesI think that has to do with whether the effect can be transferred. Bard and Kayle can't give other people meeps or the aoe fire. Lulu can give allies pix (same with Nami and Sona's Q aura as an example). It would be weird if an ally would proc TLD quicker cause they got Pix or bubbles from someone else, so my guess is they coded them to be excluded from it.
I agree with the other person though that it's a bit strange that many champions don't actually need to hit someone thrice in the first place.
VictoriousBard2 votesI think that has to do with whether the effect can be transferred. Bard and Kayle can't give other people meeps or the aoe fire. Lulu can give allies pix (same with Nami and Sona's Q aura as an example). It would be weird if an ally would proc TLD quicker cause they got Pix or bubbles from someone else, so my guess is they coded them to be excluded from it.
I agree with the other person though that it's a bit strange that many champions don't actually need to hit someone thrice in the first place.
Lulu, Sona, and Nami's count as on-hit effects (for the record, it's not really worth it on any of them besides Lulu), while the others do not. Transferable or not (you'll note it works the same way for other champions with actual on-hit effects in their kits), on-hit effects count as part of the auto attack for the purpose of triggering TLD, the others listed count as separate spell effects even though they are also triggered by auto attacks.
Abyssphere1 votesSona's Power Chord doesn't count towards Thunderlord's either.
Spoofghoul1 votesbard can do it with auto + meep + tribute proc
just the 1 attack will trigger it
Awoof1 votesThat in fact doesn't work that way. Tribute doesn't proc thunderlord's.
EndlessSorcerer2 votesLux's passive isn't an on-hit effect. When she autoattacks a target with his passive applied to them, it detonates and counts as a spell-cast (applies spell-effects as an AOE ability).
Nameless Voice2 votesFair, I used the wrong term. I should probably have called it an autoattack-triggered debuff.
FalconPawwwwnch3 votesso if I understand this correctly, you're working on nerfing thunderlords as well as fervor?
SpecterVonBaren2 votesHave you considered moving Thunderlords to the Ferocity tree and replacing it with Warlord's Bloodlust in the Cunning tree? Currently Ferocity is supposed to be the damage tree while Cunning is meant to be a more strategic and utility based tree. I know that they were designed to have some overlap so that there was at least something in each tree you might want but I think that the Keystones need to be defined by the tree they're in and lifesteal is much more of a utility mastery than a burst of damage is.
Abyssphere1 votesThere's a bunch of reasons they can't do that.
You cannot prioritise anything above balance when making changes to systems like these and your concern only seems to be with what's "fitting", but while Thunderlord's is very vaguely fitting in Ferocity (I disagree with Warlord's being fitting in Cunning), it'd be a disaster if it was placed there without big changes to both of the relevant trees. The champions intended to use Thunderlord's are also intended to go deep into Cunning in general and a lot of them are intended to have absolutely no interest in Warlord's. No champions would be happier with this swap than they are with the current setup.
Rebonack1 votesSome designs are equally useful to anyone, others are more valuable for specific conditions. Courage of the Colossus for example triggers on hard CC, which skews it towards some champs more than others and locks some out entirely. The shield's also partially based off your max HP, so how much health you expect to have needs to factor into the decision of whether or not to take it to. Maximum possible number of users is somewhat restricted as a result.
Thunderlords does have some issues as a generalized mastery. It's not as general as health is, but still pretty general. Ideally we'd want better distinction between it, DFT and Fervor as the damage masteries, still working on that though (some changes coming, probably needs more work though).
Make Thunderlord's single target only.
Make DFT deal full damage on AoE abilities.
Swap Fervor over to magic damage and give it AP/Bonus AD scaling.
Thunderlord's for single target burst. DFT for aoe/spell sustained damage. Fervor for auto-attack sustained damage.
Something like that?
Raxistaicho1 votesNo, Meddler, you can't do this to me. First you take away SotA, now you're gonna nerf Fervor? What the heck is Shyvana supposed to do for a keystone now? You've taken both her choices away!
Jeddy0172 votesDid you miss the post by Meddler saying they got Shyvana changes coming in 6.23 or 6.24?
Imperial Japan1 votesWe've got more mastery changes coming, hopefully those will hit the PBE tomorrow. They include Fervor changes, that both nerf it overall and make it less generalized.
People aren't patient, just wait a lil for their brain lag to disappear. Thanks
SwiftKitten882 voteswhat about squishy champs like 
who have no cc and ran strength of ages because they needed hp. now how are he gong to get hp?
Axe2Handle6 votesFrom items.
Keìron6 votesan assassin like nidalee MUST be squishy. Play nautilus if you want to be tanky.
Simpumba2 votes
Fervor nerfs?... I guess this season just isn't gonna favor me huh.
SarcasticShepard2 votesRiot really doesn't care much for balance anymore, that's my diagnosis from the steady mobility creep, illogical changes, and the general middle finger to the support role.
