I have always wanted to play Sejuani without feeling like I'm gimping my team with a lesser Amumu/Gragas.
I always felt she should be a Frost Tank, not a ... whatever the hell she was on release and on rework. It looks as though she will finally be the Frost Tank I always wanted with the new Permafrost and Glacial Prison gameplay.
Ralanr8 votesKinda thinking permafrost might be cancerous to fight. Will need to see the full details on it though.
Sahn Uzal4 votesIt needs to be stacked, and Sej probably needs to come on Melee range to proc it. I really doubt it'll be that bad fam
Ralanr14 votesPassively, Sejuani and her melee allies apply Frost to enemies, and unlike Braum’s passive, Sej doesn’t need to be the one to start the stacking. Once a target’s reached max stacks, Sejuani can point-and-click stun them with Permafrost. Should she attack a frozen target, she’ll shatter them for major damage.
See this is the shit that bothers me. I'll wait until I know how many stacks are needed and how quickly they stack (and the range) before I make a fully formed analysis.
Ark Sorcerer1 votesThat is top lane, except Gnar (most of the time), Quinn, Teemo, the few mages that can go top. Top you can count on for being melee. Assassin mid. For bot: Three champions, Blitz, Naut and Braum. So one role you can count one, top. Sooo..... Sejuani would love assassins and the three mention supports.
underscores2221 votesLeona? Ali? Kench? Taric?
There's a few other, less reasonable "supports" like Sion that could also work.
Glory ln Death7 votesHonestly, imagining how she and her allies have to play with that new mechanic, it really gives off the impression of a barbarian war chief leading her tribe into battle. I don't know how it will turn out from a gameplay perspective, but it seems really awesome from a thematic cohesion perspective.
Fondling Gems3 votesI mostly want to know the CD of the actual ability. If it his a mid-long cd then it will be about applying it then picking a priority target to apply it to. However depending on duration and stacking and the like I could see something as low as a 3 second CD working.
There are just way too many factors to consider right now.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesI expect it to have a pretty low cd, but each target goes on seperated cooldown after being stunned (like Udyr E).
LankPants1 votesI mostly want to know the CD of the actual ability. If it his a mid-long cd then it will be about applying it then picking a priority target to apply it to. However depending on duration and stacking and the like I could see something as low as a 3 second CD working.
I can see her E going one of two ways. Either it's literally a point and click stun on one target with either a negligible CD (I'd say 2.5/2/1.5/1/0.5) or just no CD with a CD on unique targets or it's an AOE stun to all targets with max stacks on a 5-8 second CD.
Based on what Riot said I'd assume the first. I also think that if it is a 3 sec CD it's probably going to be garbage. That's too long when we're talking about something that already has to be stacked up to begin with.
WinTheWarOnPants2 votesmelee allies
This ^ is the part that really worries me. Maybe it will be changed to where "ranged applies half", but as is, I don't like how polarizing her passive synergy is.
if her team looks like this 
NO one on her team can use her passive vs 
where everyone but adc can. I really don't like idea of depending on my team to pick "the right champs".
Ralanr3 votesWell that just means she's stronger in some comps but weaker in others. Which makes her less of a generalist.
WinTheWarOnPants2 votesi guess it's a good thing for her that tank meta is probably coming back XD
Top: 
Jg: 
Mid: 
ADC: 
Sup:
Lets go!
Arsenic Sulfur4 votesi guess it's a good thing for her that tank meta is probably coming back XD Top:
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/a8/Roar_of_the_Slayer.png/revision/20151029150001 https://i0.wp.com/www.takethis.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/triggered-meme.jpg?fit=850%2C297
DesolationKaizer1 votesLmao. I'd enjoy that comp.
KoKoboto1 votesHer current E works the same way... Sejuani needs to deal the damage in order to get the slow, now she gets a stun and her team can also get a stun...
LankPants2 votesPersonally what I think Riot should do looking at these changes at current is
I'm not 100%, I've not seen numbers, but I think these changes would improve her overall teamfight presence in cases where she doesn't have melee allies, which currently looks garbage. Also it would make her ult more unique and less of an "Anivia ult with no real threat".
AmazoX1 votesSee this is the shit that bothers me. I'll wait until I know how many stacks are needed and how quickly they stack (and the range) before I make a fully formed analysis.
So it's like Jhin's Deadly Flourish passive where if your allies hit the enemy with anything, It marks them so then you can land your Deadly Flourish to root them, Except Sejuani needs to achieve MAX STACKS and then ''Point and Click stun''
Danyoja2 votesAlso it can only be stacked by melee champs. Support Sej with Melee bot new meta :p
dr lichdeath2 votesin other words mordekaiser + seju or perhaps amumu + seju dat new passive of mumu lol
50000000000000001 votesSomeone with high attack speed would benefit most with Sejuani. All I can think of is Yasuo.
TEKadeo1 votesA lot of champs that would benefit from this play the SAME ROLE as Sejuani, sadly
Chembaron Yamada1 votesThe discussion was actually about melees you can take bot lane as a partner for sejuani, so no role overlap.
Besides that: Sejuani is a jungler. Other Melee champions with fairly high AS I can imagine (and which aren't junglers):
Edit: HOLY.... let's think about it. Maybe Gangplank Q does stack it? It is considered melee for most purposes, isn't it? And what if Yoricks mistwalkers stack it?
KoKoboto1 votesWell duh, jungler is usually composed of champions that can engage and bring CC, the things that are necessary for ganks. If she was balanced around a different lane it'd make her synergy with jungelers insane. Now it gives some more strength to often top laners or melee supports.
underscores2221 votesTop lane is going to be getting a bit more attention with the rift herald changes. I can see getting it being a thing people will fight over now.
Poske1 votesIt has to be cancerous its just a slow
Slow based champ vs stun based champ which would you choose unless the slow based champ is cancerous
Chembaron Yamada1 votesPermafrost is going to be a stun. ô.o
LankPants6 votesI have a feeling the ult's going to be a bit useless. I need to see numbers on the slow% and a few other things, but it kind of feels like it's just going to be too easy to disengage. Maybe the slow field should also ground or something so that large Sej ults can actually matter, because ultimately a large slow field just doesn't in the current state of League, there's just too many Ezreals, Lee Sins and Lucians.
I also don't like the idea of forcing Sej to be paired with melees. What does that actually add to her? It just makes her unreasonably tied to champion select. If you're going to play Sejuani you'd better have a melee top and at least one of a melee support or an assassin mid. This 'melee only' restriction is something I hope dies in a fire before her release.
TEKadeo1 votesAmen, hard enough to have the other idiots pick something useful at all in champ select. Now even if they pick an Ahri or Orianna I am penalized? What world is this?
CtrlAltFaceroll2 votesAbsolutely. I can't just go, huh, I feel like a Sej game, especially if I can't see pick intent, because my team isn't going to base their pick around me, why do I have to base my pick around them? And it's not just a full optimal thing, she goes from being a decent pick to complete garbage if you don't have anyone who can proc it. Also agreed on the ult. How are you supposed to reliably engage with a slow zone that then requires melees to go in and trigger your passive. Especially coming off of her old ult, this is going to feel absolutely terrible. I knew they were toning it down, but I honestly don't see the power that it held in the rest of the kit. I don't even know how to feel about her W and I worry for her in the jungle, to say the least.
KoKoboto1 votesShe isn't forced to be played with melee classes at all, I doubt her E will be THAT important for her kit. That's what Rito is trying to avoid and the reason they changed her ult which was pretty much the only reason you play her. Also people are forgetting her current E is even more limiting, only Sejuani's damage applies the mark and allows for a slow... this is an overall buff cause now her teammates can apply the mark and it STUNNNS now...
LankPants1 votesLet's look at what Sej brings outside of her E then. She has a single target stun, a single targets knockup and an AOE slow, with most likely decent damage. Let's compare that to what she does now. At current Sej has a single target knockup, an AOE stun and an AOE slow with decent damage. If you're not using your E stun efficiently, which almost certainly requires a melee ally you're losing out on stuns on 4 targets.
Also people are forgetting her current E is even more limiting, only Sejuani's damage applies the mark and allows for a slow...
Any instance of damage Sej deals will instantly mark for E. Her R, her Q, her W, her AAs, she has a lot of options for marking with this spell. In addition there's no stacking mechanic, you can R for the stun then immediately E as a follow up when it ends.
this is an overall buff cause now her teammates can apply the mark and it STUNNNS now...
It could be a buff, it could be a nerf, it depends on numbers, which currently only Riot knows. I also don't care if it stuns, Riot's already said on Reddit that it's a 1 second stun, which means I'm losing CC duration since I lost the AOE stun on ult. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Sejuani has lost an instant, 1.25-1.75 second AOE stun for a delayed 1 second short CD single target stun. I don't see anything in her rework that would make up for the gutting her ult has been given without her numbers just being absurd.
I'd strongly advise you to play a game or two of Sejuani to understand why you're wrong though. Try to imagine what it would be like if you needed melee's attacking the enemy for your ult to actually work. It would be pretty abysmal TBH.
KoKoboto1 votesThe knockup for Sejuani Q is acutally AoE albeit really tight to land but that's not relevant. Can you explain to me what your point is in your first paragraph?
Any instance of damage Sej deals will instantly mark for E. Her R, her Q, her W, her AAs, she has a lot of options for marking with this spell. In addition there's no stacking mechanic, you can R for the stun then immediately E as a follow up when it ends.
I feel like the current options she has to land E aren't that different from her new options. Her Q and W require her to be in melee range of a target and than her ultimate is what she has over the new Sej. If you're in melee range you should be able to land auto attacks. New Sejuani needs auto attacks but, her W applies stacks in AoE meaning you don't need melee range. So old Sejuani access to E requires melee range or ultimate. New Sejuani access to E requires stacks and allies (and skill I guess to land the skill shot). Stacks make the ability less accessible, accessibility decreases depending on how many stacks are needed. This next sentence is irrelevant to your point on accessibility but, the stacks are compensated by better reward and, paraphrased from Rito, "Tons of Damage" if Sejuani auto attacks a frozen enemy.
It could be a buff, it could be a nerf, it depends on numbers, which currently only Riot knows. I also don't care if it stuns, Riot's already said on Reddit that it's a 1 second stun, which means I'm losing CC duration since I lost the AOE stun on ult. You seem to have conveniently forgotten that Sejuani has lost an instant, 1.25-1.75 second AOE stun for a delayed 1 second short CD single target stun. I don't see anything in her rework that would make up for the gutting her ult has been given without her numbers just being absurd.
Buff was wrong word choice for me, it doesn't matter if it's a nerf or a buff because the main goal of class updates is to give champions distinct and unique gameplay. I didn't conveniently forget that the ult doesn't stun now, it was irrelevant to my main point being that Sejuani is not forced to play with melee champions and how people are so concerned with her E. However it seems YOUUUUUUUUU have conveniently forgotten that (I'm not gonna try to attack you anymore trying to have a discussion but this was just for luls) her new ultimate slows and has huge AoE, from the short video you can see it pretty much covers a whole lane in diameter and lasts at least 4-5 seconds. Old Sejuani ultimate had a 90% slow, now 30% so we might get somewhere in between but yeah gotta see the slow value. So in terms of CC she will always have more now.
In terms of things that make up for gutting her ult. Current Sejuani ult has 225 radius, new one has ~500 unit radius (lanes are ~1000 units wide), really need the slow value to tell has useful the 4-5s AoE slow will be. Need to know cooldown of permafrost to see how often she can stun, need to know damage on frozen enemies.
I'd strongly advise you to play a game or two of Sejuani to understand why you're wrong though. Try to imagine what it would be like if you needed melee's attacking the enemy for your ult to actually work. It would be pretty abysmal TBH
For your last paragraph can you explain what you're said. needing melee's attack for the ult to work? Rito says that the ultimate is a slow zone so you don't need enemies in there to slow people, it enables your melee champions to gap close and stack stuns.
LankPants1 votesThe knockup for Sejuani Q is acutally AoE albeit really tight to land but that's not relevant.
The knockup on Q is practically single target. The times where you can actually knock up more than one enemy champ are so rare that considering it as an AOE ability is overall less correct than considering it as a single target ability.
Can you explain to me what your point is in your first paragraph?
The point is that if you're not stunning multiple targets with your E you are overall far weaker than old Sej. The trade off is effectively an AOE stun VS a single target stun, so without good use of your E, which from the original post Riot released on her sounds like it's fairly reliant on melee teammates your potential is far lower than pre rework.
I feel like the current options she has to land E aren't that different from her new options.
Current Sej can R>E instantly after the R. There is no way that post rework Sej has anything close to that as an option. This isn't even really arguable, pre rework Sej has better options for stacking E, all she had to do was apply a singular instance of damage from any of her abilities and she applied a mark ready to be detonated.
In terms of things that make up for gutting her ult. Current Sejuani ult has 225 radius, new one has ~500 unit radius (lanes are ~1000 units wide), really need the slow value to tell has useful the 4-5s AoE slow will be. Need to know cooldown of permafrost to see how often she can stun, need to know damage on frozen enemies.
Let's give her a pretty good scenario then, her R is an 80% slow and her E has 0 CD with a 5 sec internal CD per target. Does this actually make up for her loss of her ult stun? IMO, no it wouldn't. What you need to remember is just how weak slows are in League of Legends. Slows do nothing to impede the most popular champions in League right now, Lee, Ahri, Graves, Lucian, Ez, Kha'zix, none of these champs give any fucks about slows, even if the field is large. I need hard CC to pin them down, and I need it to be instant, if it's not they'll ether bullshit themselves away or bullshit me away.
For your last paragraph can you explain what you're said. needing melee's attack for the ult to work? Rito says that the ultimate is a slow zone so you don't need enemies in there to slow people, it enables your melee champions to gap close and stack stuns.
In order to get the same effect as her old ult you need to get into melee range. Also the slow field won't enable melee gapclosers, it will enable the enemies to CC your team as a response, knock you away or simply dash away from the slow field. Slows just aren't useful or impactfull in the current state of League, especially when they're tied to long CDs.
KoKoboto1 votesThe knockup on Q is practically single target. The times where you can actually knock up more than one enemy champ are so rare that considering it as an AOE ability is overall less correct than considering it as a single target ability.
Yeah whatever
The point is that if you're not stunning multiple targets with your E you are overall far weaker than old Sej. The trade off is effectively an AOE stun VS a single target stun, so without good use of your E, which from the original post Riot released on her sounds like it's fairly reliant on melee teammates your potential is far lower than pre rework.
Although you might not be able to get the a 5 champion stun permafrost is guaranteed point click stun and you get "tons of damage" if you hit a stunned target. In terms of gap closing, you hit a massive AoE slow, majority of champions have dashes less than 500 units meaning if they're in the center they would have to fully dash to get out. Otherwise if they're stuck between enemies and the further side of the AoE they're gonna still be in the slow zone after the dash. Sejuani dashes in, if you miss Q that sucks but you have W which has range now and applies stacks.
Sejuani R is not very reliable at range unless the enemy is grouped up, it's more reliable if you dash and and hit em. New Sejuani R means landing the ability on a champion isn't too critical. Say the enemy is grouped at an objective, you throw your ult but they get out or whatever, you still have a huge AoE of slow zone. This zone of ~1000 units in diameter means that unless the enemy wanna walk back into the slow they're not gonna be dpsing your team unless they have great range champions.
Current Sej can R>E instantly after the R. There is no way that post rework Sej has anything close to that as an option. This isn't even really arguable, pre rework Sej has better options for stacking E, all she had to do was apply a singular instance of damage from any of her abilities and she applied a mark ready to be detonated.
I still think in terms of accessibility E is equal or better. Landing current Sejuani R is unreliable from range because they can dash out. Managing to hit Sejuani R from range means that you need to gap close and during the time you gapclose you're wasting the stun duration. You are able to get E slow on everyone but if that is the case than the ability isn't too different from new Sejauni R. If you're going melee range to land stun R than you're in the same spot as landing new Sejuani R and stacking up. Sejuani's new ultimate means instead of you landing the R on everyone and getting E slows, you're getting a slow zone off, getting AoE stacks with W and then getting guaranteed point click stuns. Having melee allies means more chances for more stuns but shouldn't decrease the potential of Sejuani getting stuns. W is also a spell meaning she can chain her auto attack and W to get stuns faster.
Let's give her a pretty good scenario then, her R is an 80% slow and her E has 0 CD with a 5 sec internal CD per target. Does this actually make up for her loss of her ult stun? IMO, no it wouldn't. What you need to remember is just how weak slows are in League of Legends. Slows do nothing to impede the most popular champions in League right now, Lee, Ahri, Graves, Lucian, Ez, Kha'zix, none of these champs give any fucks about slows, even if the field is large. I need hard CC to pin them down, and I need it to be instant, if it's not they'll ether bullshit themselves away or bullshit me away.
You seem so adamant that slows are bad regardless of how significant they are. By what you're saying Sejuani's current E is worse than the new one. As mentioned earlier unless you get the stun from melee range than the R is unreliable and not used to full potential because, you have to deal with people being able to dodge it and gap closing wasting the stun duration. Afterwards who cares if you land E (even if it's a 70% slow) because everyone will just dash away from you with their "bullshit". So the range stun from R you get isn't that great, and if you get a melee range stun than the differences from the new Sejuani R aren't that huge because if you're melee range you're in stacking range. Also 80% slow is really significant, it means walking away is not an option and it's practically hard CC because you can only use dashes to get away.
In order to get the same effect as her old ult you need to get into melee range. Also the slow field won't enable melee gapclosers, it will enable the enemies to CC your team as a response, knock you away or simply dash away from the slow field. Slows just aren't useful or impactfull in the current state of League, especially when they're tied to long CDs.
Unless the enemy can effectively keep your team at bay for 4-5s while they decide to stay in the AoE slow and use abilities to CC you than I imagine gap closing will be possible. Most of the champions who have dashes don't have hard CC so it's either one or the other or they have their CC tied to their dash. Once again if you get the ult stun from range you need to spend time gap closing, after wards you might get less than 0.75s of stun left, by then the enemy will be free to CC you and dash away from your E slow because it's just that easy to deal with slows as you said. Current Sejuani is either you hit ult and have higher chance of winning or miss and are near useless. New Sejuani has more options and will be as or more viable than old Sejuani now that she isn't an ult bot.
TEKadeo5 votesI want to be positive about this preview, but honestly I don't like what I see:
Thanks for the Braum passive that is going to be super difficult to stack, I guess? Oh and Braum's stun is automatic, and can be stacked by anyone... And I HATE stacking passives. Very much lacking in creativity, BAD.
New W could be okay, altho it looks like another skill shot(s)...which is fine because I always hit every single skill shot. I know you do too, bro, awesome bro. Range looks nice, but tbh the video is too close to really see the whole effect.
Ult is the most underwhelming part, although the area of effect is great. Does nobody realize that Sona's ult is basically the same as Sejuani's current one? And she doesn't seem to have to pay this ridiculously made-up "penalty" for it to be so good? She is incredible at nearly every aspect of the game. Be for real.
I really need this to hit the PBE before I lose my shit.
TEKadeo1 votesAlso it looks like she will lose her auto attack reset? Actually a stout damage/burst nerf, in addition to the certain damage loss involved in losing her swinging flail portion of her W.
One positive? It looks like she has a second hard-CC for ganking pre-6....but apparently no slow until you hit 6. Mixed feeling about Iceborn Guantlet. Maybe Frozen Mallet?
PapaGreg211 votesLet's be honest, her auto attacks are the worst in the game. Not having the reset will not be greatly missed.
MistroTTC1 votesThe clunkiness of her w auto attack reset and 1 tick per second damage on it were the main reasons I could never get into her,
LankPants3 votesLet's be honest, her auto attacks are the worst in the game.
Not even remotely. Her AAs come out on a very early frame, you can cancel them super early. They're a little clunky, sure but once you're used to them they're actually very good auto attacks. Especially if you run AS on your runepage which is really just standard for junglers.
LankPants2 votesOne positive? It looks like she has a second hard-CC for ganking pre-6....but apparently no slow until you hit 6. Mixed feeling about Iceborn Guantlet. Maybe Frozen Mallet?
That hard CC can also (probably, it's not 100% clear) be applied to jungle monsters, which will help at least a little in clearing.
CtrlAltFaceroll1 votesThis is pretty close to how I feel. Even thought they said they were focusing on the barbarian leader and the cavalry aspects of her, I don't really feel much of this coming through, honestly. I guess barbarians aren't allowed to use ranged weapons? A stacking passive is the last thing I wanted to see on Sej. I didn't think they could really make her feel bad, but just going off of gut instinct I'm not at all excited for this. Nothing is going to feel satisfying about her. Her ult looks so bad. She's supposed to engage and the only reliable engage she gets is an aoe slow? They said they wanted to back off on the reliable damage of tanks and replace it with more CC and they essentially give her less CC. And she's supposed to excel at 2v2s and 3v3s? Where's the team fight capabilities that a frontline tank is supposed to have? She just seems like a support who they limited who can proc her passive because it'd be broken in a duo lane with a marksman.
Flemman4 voteshope her jungler will be touched because, with new W, seems like you lose a lot of clear potential
Also, I kinda don't agree with how they phrase the ult change, yes they took power from it but they don't give it to seju, they give it to her ally making the change unreliable if they can't make use of it (or just don't play with it, like late game reliec shield proc)
I will wait the number (mostly the range and the stack) but, as far as seju goes, I don't really get what she gain from those change (change from cavalery theme seems to be missing unless she gave melee champ a move speed with her Q)
DunkinNoobs3 votesI don't like what I'm seeing so far, but I'll have to play it to be sure.
ModCaptainMårvelous3 votesI always felt she should be a Frost Tank, not a ... whatever the hell she was on release and on rework.
The term you're looking for is "Ranged Amumu with an AA reset."
jama6552 votesill miss the 5 man stun.
Dominick Destine1 votesill miss the 5 man stun.
Azteryz1 votesgotta see a full video on the reworks before formulating my opinon but from paper it looks neat
YoungFarmer1 votesWhere can I see the new updated champions?, I tried googling can't find them anywhere.
MrBuffington1 voteshttp://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/04/intro-to-midseason-2017.html#more
they haven't actually been fully revealed, it's just teasers and blog posts right now
YoungFarmer1 voteshttp://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/04/intro-to-midseason-2017.html#more
they haven't actually been fully revealed, it's just teasers and blog posts right now
I'm not a massive fan of the mao change
