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Honestly, as much as I hate Thresh being in basically every single game

HateDaddy··69 votes·5,817 views

I would rather face him than basically any other support that frequently. Anyone from season 2 remembers the bullshit was Sona/Janna every game. Taric had a short run. Ali had a short run. Literally fuck Blitzcrank. Seriously, if you asked me if I was faced with the prospect of having to see one support in every single game no matter what, I would select Thresh by a mile.

Don't get me wrong, his kit can be frustrating but there's literally never a point where I face a Thresh and he makes a play and I say to myself "welp we couldn't have done anything about that." Meanwhile, Sonas spammable heal + shield (which is still good, quit acting like it isn't) Janna's everything, Alistars Malphite ult while being unkillable. Blitzcranks's existence. Braum...well he's not too overbearing in lane but teamfights happen and if you're melee vs a Braum, prepare to never be able to move. Same with Naut. Same with Leona. Fuck Lulu no matter where she goes. Taric is binary as fuck and literally unfun to play against. Soraka doesn't exist at the moment because I think she's legitimately the hardest support to play now by far (but heal spammers are still lame).

Like, his damage isn't really overbearing. There's some things I don't understand (like why his hook has to have a fucking stun on it) with him but my god, I never feel like Thresh is nearly as overbearing as all the above when they're good because they're all literal bullshit to play against. So while it is a disturbing trend to see a champion like that in every game no matter what the meta is, I'd live with this any day of the week over half the other bullshit support champions that are point and click 1v2 lol bro where'd your health go shitty designs.

So while this isn't a hail thresh thread, uh, here ya go thresh, here's a trophy for not being absolute bullshit like most support champions are.

141 Comments

jDVL20eCYs50 votes

annie is the worst of all^^ cancer champ of cancers

manbearswine4 votes

[{quoted}](name=ekko or feed,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjGKE3gB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-22T19:57:39.201+0000)

annie is the worst of all^^ cancer champ of cancers

Fine,let's nerf annie,have fun chocking on kalista.

Is annie's kit obnoxious? ...yes,but she is often used to counter champions even more obnoxious than she is(kalista,yasuo/etc),so she is actually healthy for the game,she is just the lesser evil.

Space Bum1 votes

Taric is also nice for kalista

manbearswine4 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Like Hugs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjGKE3gB,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-06-23T00:55:55.830+0000)

Taric is also nice for kalists

First of all,I have my doubts,but second of all there is one fatal flaw in your plan:

To use taric to counter kalista,someone will have to play taric,as in "the most boring sack of shit in this game" taric.

I mostly assume he is weak because that tends to be how people view him,but there's just no way for me to know it,nobody plays that boring shit,and I sure as hell am not willing to do such a thing,kinda hard to assess the strength of something you never see.

Oh and btw,I've played in s2/s3 when taric was op(god that garbage was obnoxious),I'll take a strong annie over a strong taric anyday.

AutoreactiveCD43 votes

playing pink Taric and getting fed vs an all AD team is fun as hell!

You won't win cause all the kills are on the almost zero damage support but they'll never be able to kill something that manly.

Aeolian Melodies19 votes

Annie is more often seen WITH Kallista than AGAINST her.

Annie being picked prevents any non-tank support from being picked and any short range and/or immobile ADC from being picked, and every time she gets a lovetap on the wrist she gets 3 compensatory buffs that make her even more bullshit than before.

Lesser evil my fucking ass.

manbearswine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjGKE3gB,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2015-06-23T00:58:44.540+0000)

Annie is more often seen WITH Kallista than AGAINST her.

Yes,that's often an issue with counters,but well,if you take annie with kalista,they can't take annie.

Annie being picked prevents any non-tank support from being picked

News flash,tank supports do that as well,hell,they are even worse,annie can sort of be handled,nautilus or a good thresh(more as in not bad thresh,thresh is just known for having a lot of shit players playing him for no apparent reason)? I'd rather deal with annie.

and any short range and/or immobile ADC from being picked,

Would still rather deal with an annie than leona/thresh/blitz/naut.

and every time she gets a lovetap on the wrist she gets 3 compensatory buffs that make her even more bullshit than before.

Lesser evil my fucking ass.

Boy you must love nautilus.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

I actually main Sona/Janna/Nami.

You can juke and outplay Thresh/Blitz/Naut/Leona because their hardest engage is skillshot-based.

Have fun juking and outplaying clicks.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjGKE3gB,comment-id=00010001000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-24T16:06:29.040+0000)

I actually main Sona/Janna/Nami.

Well janna is actually the only good one of these 3,because her kit counters tanks,at least to a large extent.

Looking at your match history,you seem to being doing better(and playing more) on janna,can you honestly(mostly to yourself) tell me that sona/nami are in a good spot now?

You can juke and outplay Thresh/Blitz/Naut/Leona because their hardest engage is skillshot-based.

This is a lot of swagtalk,say for example I remove the cast time and double the speed on blitz's hook,you can still juke it and outplay it,so does that not make it a massive buff?

Naut hook has the hitbox of a truck and the speed of an ezreal q,thresh can e->hook and is also ranged,sure they can be beaten,everything can be beaten,but their numbers and the way the matchup works makes the lane heavily in their favor(not so much in the case of janna),if they players are evenly skilled naut/thresh will nearly always win the lane.

Have fun juking and outplaying clicks.

Well sona and nami are clickers to a large extent as well,and can trade better with annie than naut/decent thresh/blitz(if you are an immobile adc with nami/sona),I think you are joining in on the circlejerk here,I'm pretty sure if you actually think on what frustrates you more I'm sure you'll see you'd rather play sona/nami vs annie than vs naut or a decent thresh.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

I already play Sona/Nami, and I'd rather deal with Thresh or Naut than Annie with her. Any day. Give me 10 Threshes before a single Annie.

Janna is my strongest support - both in terms of champion's strength and my personal skill with her - that does not mean that Sona and Nami are worthless.

Nami gets played competitively - I don't know where you get the idea that she is not good. Given that half of her kit is skillshot based (and that her most threatening abilities are those skillshots), I also don't understand where you get the idea that she is "mostly click". She can't hard CC you without aiming - Annie can. Leona can, if you let her walk to you but then you probably deserve to get stunned.

Sona's problem, as it was last season, is not her kit. Her kit is excellent at what it does - bullying lanes with constant poke and coming out on top due to sustain. Sona's problem is the currently popular supports. Out of Janna, Thresh, Leona, Nautilus, Annie, Alistar, Morgana, and Blitzcrank, there's only really Janna and Morgana that I'd want to face, Janna because her lane gets bullied easily by poke, Morgana for how easily Sona goes through Black Shield to allow CC to be applied after.

Even Nami I don't really like to face as Sona because she is more threatening (dem bubbles) and her sustain is bound to be superior because she is meant to max it first. Blitzcrank, Thresh and Leona can be beaten if you are a better player than them; Alistar's already tougher because he has sustain too, making his lane less prone to being bullied and more prone to not giving a fuck. Annie is literally mission impossible unless you have godlike coordination with your ADC and the other lane don't know wtf they're doing.

I personally do not think they should buff Sona. They're going to buff what? Her poke? Her poke is already extremely strong. Her sustain? RIot hates sustain so that's unlikely; even if they were to do it this would likely come with a price to pay, aka her poke would get gutted. Her MS buff? Not going to help her much in the current game environment, plus she maxes this last for a reason. Her ult? Riot hates it - although I suppose a lower CD would be nice, considering the other supports. What they could do and what would probably help her the most without breaking her or having to sacrifice what's currently fun about her would be a buff in the mana/mana regen department (either her pool, her regen, or her abilities' cost, looking at YOU Aria of Perseverance), or a buff to her early game tankiness so she isn't as much of a free kill for those engage supports. With a bit more HP, perhaps she would indeed have a chance against Annie - currently she does not.

Tank meta doesn't help her much either, when the enemy has Maokai top, Alistar support, Sejuani jungle and Cho'Gath mid, it's highly unlikely that your team has enough damage to win the teamfight during the duration of Crescendo - and then you're ticking tanks with Q and kiting around with E hoping some bad guys die eventually.

Sona is excellent at what she is designed to do - it's just that what she is designed to do isn't what is needed at the moment in the current meta game.

Her biggest problem is how useless she is when her lane/team gets behind. With every other support you feel like you can still control the game; Sona's impact just feels null and void when her team is on the losing side. I just have no idea how Riot can help her there without breaking her, making her too strong, and having to send her through another cycle of 4 nerfs in a row.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well they probably should make putting points into E a little better as currently it is each point spent on E only gives her E.. +1% movement speed...

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

It's hard to achieve that without hitting Q or W hard. I mean, you'd have to buff E pretty damn significantly for it to be worth leveling up over her poke/offensive buff and her sustain/AoE shield.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well I don't mean to make it good enough to level it before Q/W Just make it slightly better to put points in it since you will have to do it eventually

I Main Swain2 votes

id rather face annie support than morg support.

LICENSED HOOKER2 votes

shh, with so many Morgana mids lately, maybe the meta is sifting. This means i can main Blitzcrank again or any hook dependent champ.

GankLord2 votes

Can we stop talking about Annie like her main role is support before she gets nerfed into the support role and can no longer go mid like karma?

jDVL20eCYs2 votes

well just enrf her ratios hard on q and e while lower the cd of the spells and make her stun 1 sec at all ranks

Troy24262120 votes

Thresh's hitbox needs to match what his hook actually looks like, but other than that, I don't have too many complaints about him.

Normally I'd be upset he's overloaded but since Riot gave up on making ADCs actually weak early game, they kind of have to be kit strong, because they won't scale as well as most other champions.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

Thresh's hitbox needs to match what his hook actually looks like, but other than that, I don't have too many complaints about him.

Normally I'd be upset he's overloaded but since Riot gave up on making ADCs actually weak early game, they kind of have to be kit strong, because they won't scale as well as most other champions.

Theres several hitboxes in this game in need of having better visuals, thresh is obviously one of the main champions we think of concerning this. But if that's his biggest issue, that tells you something about other supports.

Troy2426217 votes

{quoted}

Theres several hitboxes in this game in need of having better visuals, thresh is obviously one of the main champions we think of concerning this. But if that's his biggest issue, that tells you something about other supports.

To be honest, I have more complaints about Leblanc Zed Kalista Ekko being miserable to play against than I do most bot lane supports, but that's just me personally.

HateDaddy7 votes

{quoted}

To be honest, I have more complaints about Leblanc Zed Kalista Ekko being miserable to play against than I do most bot lane supports, but that's just me personally.

That's an entirely different discussion honestly

Jeanne fan club2 votes

There aren't really any valid complaints about mid-laners anymore. Zed is countered by 2 items(qss and zhonyas) and Leblanc is probably the squishiest midlaner in the game. Ekko can be bs since he is the only assassin with both a sheild and a heal along with insane slows and is almost impossible to escape from. If your having trouble against Ekko I'd recommend playing ahri or kassadin into him because they both are able to deal with his kit quite nicely. CC absolutely annihilates kallista so she is pretty balanced where she is right now. TBH these champions are pretty balanced where they are and can be dealt with just fine unless your teammates decide to feed them.

Aeolian Melodies2 votes

CC annihilates Kallista, provided you can land it. You'll probably need a point-and-click hard CC, and these abilities get rarer and rarer.

manbearswine10 votes

{quoted}

I would rather face him than basically any other support that frequently.

Here's the thing though,why do you have to have to face the same champion on a regular basis for years?(No I'm not talking about why do op's exist)

Fotm is supposed to be flavor of the month,it is supposed to rotate,it's not supposed to be "thresh and friends" for eternity,Let someone else take his spot,then let him rotate back into the meta like everybody else does,there is absolutely nothing to justify thresh being so dominant for so long(even if it's probably true that better thresh take that spot than most supports(lulu/nami for example can be tolerated more than most as well),but nobody should take that spot to begin with).

P.S: your post wreaks of being an assassin and/or bruiser main,lulu/braum/janna are specifically aimed at shutting those down,whereas a lot of thresh's power is in his ability to make a pick on squishes,so no,lulu/braum/janna aren't more frustrating to play against than thresh,they are simply more frustrating to play against to bruisers/assassins,and less to everybody else.

P.S 2: sona is considered garbage right now,any high elo support will confirm that.

Anidan4 votes

very minor nitpick: P.S. means "Post Scriptum" ("written after") so if you want to make another addendum after your P.S., you can just add another P to the beginning of it to make it "Post Post Scriptum" and so on for every footnote you add thereafter.

Like I said, very minor.

Also, I agree that nobody should be "FotM" for ongoing years now. Even Thresh is pretty damn obnoxious after seeing him very commonly after the sixth straight month. Not gonna call him "cancer" or whatever, but damn if he doesn't annoy me at this point. He is to me as Teemo is to the general community: a nuisance that I'd rather not have to deal with and have come to associate with horrible people. I don't hate Teemo at all, but I'm at the point where I dislike Thresh.

Those big plays that come with the hooks and the most creatively named ult in the entire game and the mega saves with the lantern are just that kind of thing that starts to grate on me whether I play an assassin or... anyone for that matter.

Aeolian Melodies1 votes

Sona's garbage? lol

this tier list disagrees http://www.nerfplz.com/2015/06/2015-champion-tier-list-solo-queue.html

her winrate disagrees http://www.lolking.net/champions/ , http://www.lolking.net/champions/sona&region=all&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger#statistics

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjGKE3gB,comment-id=00130001,timestamp=2015-06-25T02:11:44.901+0000)

Sona's garbage? lol

this tier list disagrees http://www.nerfplz.com/2015/06/2015-champion-tier-list-solo-queue.html

They focused mostly on the higher tiers(for the most part did a good job,though soraka should be moved higher),but yeah their lower tiers aren't too accurate,and sona is in them.

her winrate disagrees http://www.lolking.net/champions/ , http://www.lolking.net/champions/sona&region=all&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=challenger#statistics

yes 3% popularity with massive variance in winrate,no sure what I see here,aside from challenger players not thinking her to be pick worthy.

Gunpoint8 votes

Since the Zenith blade missle width nerf I've noticed Leona is much less annoying to play against.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

Since the Zenith blade missle width nerf I've noticed Leona is much less annoying to play against.

Eh, if you were any good with Leona, you barely even notice the change. Let's be honest, it's a pretty hard skill shot to miss still.

Rew7115 votes

Still, as a support main, this seems a little harsh.

I agree with Blitzcrank. You land one Q and you are finished. But Thresh isn't so much better. His kit may be 5 times the fair, but it isn't like he also doesn't have a lot to dish out himself. His never ending armor, his shields, his hooks, and push-backs. I've played as Thresh, he's not hard. When I see Taric, who has had it hard for 2 seasons, finally coming to light again, you put him down saying he's not fun to play against. Is it the stun? As someone who literally spent a whole season learning Taric, he is not easy. Also, Sona is not as easy as people think. True, after some practice you cannot be killed but she is not easy to learn. Soraka isn't hard, but right now, she isn't impossible to use.

What are you thoughts on real supports? Like Nami, Zilean, Nunu, or Bard?

AbodyHUN6662 votes

Taric may not be easy, but he is just boring to play. The best plays you can do on him is flash stun, he's got 2 player centered aoe, one of which you shouldn't even use sometimes and a weak heal. He can be poked down if he is weak, but back when he was strong, he was my main in ranked with 75% winrate.

commit an hero8 votes

{quoted}

Sonas spammable heal + shield (which is still good, quit acting like it isn't)

What the hell are you smoking? It is by no means spammable. Even if it was, the heal/shield is so abysmal for the amount of mana it costs.

HateDaddy15 votes

{quoted}

Sonas spammable heal + shield (which is still good, quit acting like it isn't)

What the hell are you smoking? It is by no means spammable. Even if it was, the heal/shield is so abysmal for the amount of mana it costs.

Here we go, the delusional Sona mains have entered my thread. "Bro my 54% winrate champion with 12% pickrate is fucking garbage and sucks so much she needs buffs and every time someone says she's ok, I cry and clutch my Sona body pillow and pet it and let it know it's going to be alright."

Abandon thread

Ratbert9 votes

champion.gg and lolking disagree with your numbers. winrate is "only" 52% pickrate is 7%, but goes down as the rank goes up down to 3%.

It seems she consistently wins more, but is played less than other supports.

LankPants5 votes

He used Lolking which shows normal statistics as a default and includes low rankings where Sona's actually a legit pick.

I have no idea where he's getting 54% from though. The only place I can find where she has that sort of winrate is the daily bronze statistics, which is clearly what we should be basing our balance decisions off of.

Even just from looking at Lolking stats it's painfully obvious that Sona struggles more and more the higher rank you look at. She makes the top 10 in Bronze-Silver-Gold, sure but her win rate and play rate both start tanking around high gold when people start learning to deal with her.

Also if he's going to call out Sona's 12% pick rate (which is false, as you said it's closer to 7%) then I think it's hypocritical not to call out Thresh for his 33% pickrate, which is the highest in the game, just shy of 5x Sona's pick rate. In Diamond Thresh has a 45% pick rate, around 10x Sona's pickrate at the same rank.

3tyson5 votes

Annie would you rather meet my friend tibbers ?

HateDaddy8 votes

{quoted}

Annie would you rather meet my friend tibbers ?

Annie is pretty cancer but when annie was fotm support, it was free win for Ali or Leona. Just constantly go ham and blow her up. She's lame, not just as a support but as a champion in general and it blows my mind she hasn't had some sort of rework yet considering what they did to Veigar given that she was literally a better version of him before his changes.

Sooko5 votes

Meh, I like/don't mind facing Bard, Nami, Sona, Karma, Braum (I guess?), Alistar, Zyra more than Thresh.

Zilean and Leona are meh choices when it comes to annoying

But I would hate playing bot lane if Blitzcrank, Annie, Morgana and/or Lulu were as popular as him. Good point, bro, I think I've actually learned something from one thread.

Now if only this was the same story of mid/top lane Yasuo...

Mandang05 votes

I disagree 100%. Thresh's kit is an abomination, where he gets to do everything another support is good at, but then gets something else on the side. I guess he doesn't have a heal, but he can build relic shield like every other non-sustain support to make up for it. He gets a hook like Blitz, but he can choose whether he wants to take it (even lower risk/high reward), and he gets ranged autos with an on-hit on top of that. He gets a completely unique/defining spell in lantern that has a shield tacked on for reasons. He's good at engage, good at disengage, good at lockdown, puts out good damage... Contrast that with Janna, who has a very well-defined and focused strength - disengage. People whine about Janna because she punishes aggression, but she can't really do anything to you in any other case.

I'll agree Sona's poorly designed as a spammy sustain and poke support with an AOE stun ult, but I see her more similar to Thresh for that reason rather than in contrast to him.

The funny thing about Sona/Janna in S2 is that the playerbase didn't realize the Blitz/Leonas of the game existed, then when they finally did, those champions went on to dominate the lane like they have pretty much ever since (mage supports of S3 aside).

Hinagiku332 votes

Yeah, I never did get the hate on Janna , she does exactly one thing - disengage. It makes her unique as a specialist and gives her extremely clear weakness (literally everything else). I guess it's mostly the hyper-aggressive players that would rather only pick-supports and hard-engage supports be viable or something.

Sona I never had a problem facing even back in Season 2. She has the crystal clear weakness of dying at the drop of a hat if anything touches her. Heck, Leona made her life hell even back then but for some reason no one played her...until suddenly everybody does. If Sona's Q was a skillshot instead of targeted, would anyone even be complaining about her?

But Thresh , sorry but this guy gets to have solid engage, disengage, lock-down, a shield, ranged auto-attacks with scaling on-hit damage, infinite armor stacking in addition to his game-warping, play-making lantern?? Does he really need The Lantern, The Hook, and The Box, let alone that other stuff? He'd be top-tier with just the hook and the lantern...

I'd honestly rather play against champs with weaknesses instead of one that has an answer for everything.

Bard in a Diaper3 votes

you clearly dont play melee champions if you dont think thresh has no counterplay. Try playing something like nasus or trundle against thresh and see how fun it is. flay. hook. death sentence. yea you arent going anywhere

HateDaddy6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard in a Diaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VjGKE3gB,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-06-22T22:11:02.516+0000)

you clearly dont play melee champions if you dont think thresh has no counterplay. Try playing something like nasus or trundle against thresh and see how fun it is. flay. hook. death sentence. yea you arent going anywhere

I'm a Nasus main with over 1000 games on him since season 2

I can dodge his hook, I cant really do much about his flay but that's whatever. I can even pop ghost around his ult.

What can Nasus do vs a dedicated peeling Alistar? What can Nasus do vs a dedicated peeling Leona? Braum? Naut? Blitz? Janna? Sona? Legit nothing. Nothing. I can at least outplay half of thresh's Kit, I'm not even given the opportunity to do this against those mentioned above.

I Main Swain7 votes

oh no, there's a support that can keep nasus off your carries reasonably well.

and as someone who plays trundle, I have absolutely 0 problem with a support being able to peel an immobile tank off their carries. if they couldn't, then that would be a very big problem.

ModAttysu The Poro3 votes

I play Lulu Support but I do it in a fun way. With PURPLE. (And movement speed.)

Full Build: item 3270 item 2045 item 3069 item 3285 item 3100 item 3364 item 3165

Talisman + Mobi Boost + Homeguard + w = You get out the base in 2 seconds by hitting 1k MS top speed back to the fight. + Moren for mana, + her kiting potential with LE and LB percentage movement speed buff.

Prepared to get reported/flamed at by enemy team for being the biggest douchebag kiting Yordle.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

I play Lulu Support but I do it in a fun way. With PURPLE. (And movement speed.)

Full Build: item 3270 item 2045 item 3069 item 3285 item 3100 item 3364 item 3165

Talisman + Mobi Boost + Homeguard + w = You get out the base in 2 seconds by hitting 1k MS top speed back to the fight. + Moren for mana, + her kiting potential with LE and LB percentage movement speed buff.

Prepared to get reported/flamed at by enemy team for being the biggest douchebag kiting Yordle.

I'm going to report you for playing lulu period. I don't care what you build on her or where you play here. :P

ModAttysu The Poro4 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to report you for playing lulu period. I don't care what you build on her or where you play here. :P

The funny thing is I never knew so many people hated Lulu until I started going on the forums (ahem I mean Boards). At one point I coulda sworn people though she was useless xD

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

The funny thing is I never knew so many people hated Lulu until I started going on the forums (ahem I mean Boards). At one point I coulda sworn people though she was useless xD

She's just cancer to play against dawg

I mean, if you main her, keep playing her. You shouldn't feel bad for enjoying what you enjoy. But I am going to tell you that you're sadistic for playing Lulu.

Anidan4 votes

Couldn't the same be said of most of the champions in this game that are in a good place? When you reach a point of mastery with almost any champion they can pretty much all be used to devastating effect, especially if they're allowed their best niche. You said you main Nasus, right? I fucking HATE playing against Nasus and consider the whole game to be completely miserable and unfun, no matter who I play as.

But I like playing Fizz and Diana, so I might just be an asshole, who knows? :P

Worth noting, I don't hate playing against Nasus because I like to play Fizz and Diana, that's a completely unrelated fact.

1000angrybees2 votes

Sona's w sucks and acting like it's spammable (or good) unless she's got a shit load of regen (at the very least, I'm not even adding in CD or AP) is delusional.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

Sona's w sucks and acting like it's spammable (or good) unless she's got a shit load of regen (at the very least, I'm not even adding in CD or AP) is delusional.

Man, it's a shame there aren't a plethora of ap/CDR/regen items for her to build in this game :/

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