Playing Vladimir feels really awkward.

option paralysis·May 9, 2016·19 votes·1,960 views

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like playing a champion which loses 30% max hp when I use 2 abilities. You heal like 70 hp on a normal Q and when you clear big waves you lose like 30% hp and you can't heal it back up. Yeah, 3rd Q has a big heal but for that you need to cast 2 normal Q's and be in a duel 10+ seconds and by that time you've already casted 3 E's = 30% max hp. Even if I get that 3rd Q off, all I get is the feeling "oh, they didn't walk away from me for 2 secs". I don't see why in the hotfix he's gonna get his base E stats buffed when the problem isn't the dmg at all. I have the blood lord skin and I played vlad a lot before, but this just feels really bad and it's a shame you can't refund skins after reworks anymore.

42 Comments

Count ZubatMay 9, 20168 votes

Tbh, my only complain about new Vlad so far is how much of information enemy gets about when your Crimson Rush Q is ready. Not only he sees your secondary bar filling up, giving him very accurate representation when your Q goes off cooldown, but on top of that, there is that animation above the blood orb Vlad carries about 1 second before your Q goes off cooldown. Don't you think that's a little too much? That one animation and half filled, yellow secondary bar should be enough imo, the fact that your enemy gets also a very accurate representation when your Q goes off cooldown is too much.

IIIIIIIllllllMay 10, 20161 votes

u are right :)

MysterageMay 9, 20165 votes

I feel like you should get a refund on both the champion and all skins if Riot reworks it. I HATE like half of the 100+ champs I own now because of stupid reworks.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20165 votes

Vlad main here, just jumped from g5 to g4 by spamming him mid/top.

My advice is to stop spamming E mindlessly and avoid pooling offensively.

To anyone who thinks the rework has ruined him forever, I have 2 things to say:

Git gud
Wait for Korea (and buffs and bugifxes)

Simply MadMay 9, 20165 votes

I've been playing Vlad quite often this season in ranked(almost always when I get top due to the need for Tankiness and AP in my games, go figure), and this patch busted his kneecaps. His damage was nerfed across the board, his sustain was nerfed into the ground, the blood rush boost is a joke(2.5 secs to get it done oh and to help you here's a 16 ms buff that diminishes over 1 second, on top of Blood Rush being 150% telegraphed at every stage{which Riot said was something they didn't want on Annie, so why do it on Vlad?} so you hardly ever actually get it off unless you're opponent is a moron or isn't paying attention), plus no spellvamp in the game anymore? Vlad depended on spellvamp and his q sustain to get his job done and now one is completely gone and the other might as well be. E should not be spammed, I'll give you that, but it's because it's a crap ability that costs way too damn much for little to nothing in return. Vlad doesn't push anymore, he can't harass anywhere near as effectively, and barely if at all sustains. There's no reason to pick him over, say , Malphite, or any other AP tank.

Thoughts?

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

I can write a novel on how my thinking changed when playing new Vlad but really what you need is to practice and git gud. Buffs are needed and will be welcome but the kit is wonderful design wise.

E is an especially beautiful skill, it's the anti-all-inning tool (among other things) Vlad needed all along.

http://webmshare.com/R5aAE

Honestly, everything that was in the old kit is still there, but moved around, made faster and more fun. And new things have been added, things this champ needed a lot.

Wait for Korea.

GIT GUD.

CynikaMay 9, 20164 votes

As compelling as your "git gud" argument is, it should be applied to the people laning against you. New vlad has so much counter play built in they shouldn't lose to you unless they fuck up (or someone else fucked up and got you super ahead).

The biggest issue I keep facing though is my empowered q takes too long to come up in a team fight. By the time it is up, I'm usually dead, have grevious wounds on me since my health has dropped low enough for morello's, or the team fight is over and one side is dead or fleeing.

Same goes with the heal on the ult, by the time it happens I'm dead or it I already won. It doesn't help me with anything.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20162 votes

Well blimey, all the opponents I've been laning against in low/mid gold for the last 20 ranked games must have been terrible then.

Key is, there is counterplay to his counterplay. Engage before Rush Q is up. Think hard how and when to use E.

In teamfights your primary sustain tool is ult not q. Do you engage with ult?

CynikaMay 9, 20163 votes

They probably are, I know when I get ahead on vlad it's because my opponent made some seriously bad decisions.

And of course I engage with ult, but by the time it pops the fight is usually over or ending one way or another, the heal at the end doesn't affect anything because I'm dead or they are.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

Judging by your elo alone they are somewhat better than your opponents.

I agree that used to be the case with old Vlad but this rework offers some heavy plays potential. I lost lane only once, to an Olaf.

You realize the healing comes through if they die before the pop, right?

CynikaMay 9, 20163 votes

Lol you're low gold, they aren't that much better.

if they're dead then the heal isn't that important anymore. I'm not saying vlad doesn't heal at all, I'm saying that it usually comes too late to make a difference.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

You're assuming they all die at the same time. Usually someone will die first, heal you, then someone else, then either everyone dies or your ult pops and rylai slows them, so they have a harder time getting away.

CynikaMay 9, 20163 votes

Again I'm not saying the heals are useless, they are just too situational. There's no consistency with new vlad's sustain. Yes I've had clutch ult and empowered q heals, but more times than not they've been up too late to make a difference.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

Situational is okay if you can play around it and skill your way into success.

CynikaMay 9, 20164 votes

If a champ's identity is the sustain guy, and his sustain is inconsistent, I see a problem.

But yea I think we're just gonna disagree lol.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

Leona is the CC champ and her CC is conditional. Yasuo is the mobility guy and his mobility is conditional.

Don't see a problem as long as he has a fair chance of pulling it off. Which he needs slightly more of atm.

See my thread: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/lEX2RdyY-vladimir-buffs-direction-risk-reward-skill-ceilings-and-counterplay

CynikaMay 9, 20163 votes

I don't get your examples, Leona is skill shot based and Yasuo requires enemy units. They will know at the start of the fight if they're going to be effective. Land e and can q as Leona (or land r)?Cool I'm in. No enemy minions and I missed my tornado? Ok I'll back off for a bit as Yasuo.

Vlad sustain is gated behind a certain amount of time it takes to get CR buff by building q stacks or ult to pop. You're in the thick of it praying one or the other will come up in time before you die.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

You realize the combined duration of pool and Zhonya is enough to wait out any of these? Sounds like you just need practice.

CynikaMay 10, 20161 votes

But in the time it takes for pool and zhonya's, you're teammates could all be dead, or their team could all be dead, or the team fight could have shifted to a different area, or someone on their team with cc and lower ping could be waiting for you to come out. It's not reliable.

And after seeing a lot of your posts, you should really chill lol. The "I'm better than you" attitude won't win anyone to your cause, especially when you have that attitude as gold.

Blood MagicksMay 10, 20161 votes

Why are you complaining that Zhonya has counterplay? This is how it should be and any mage, especially battlemages, has learned to live with it. Most of your posts just sound like: I'm very unhappy the enemy can do something against me, even though with the rework Vlad has just as many new opportunities. I'm sorry you got this idea about my arguments, I'm just trying to say in the right hands Vlad is far stronger than before.

And feel free to disagree and keep asking Riot for buffs, as a VERY dedicated Vlad main I can only thank you.

CynikaMay 10, 20161 votes

If you paid attention to anything I've said at all, you would realize I'm not complaining about zhonya's, I was saying that zhonya's is not the cure all that you were making it out to be.

I'm also a dedicated vlad main with 380k mastery points (aka I've played him a ton). He just doesn't feel good to play now, and I've won more games than lost post rework.

And number buffs isn't what vlad needs, he needs QoL buffs IMO

Blood MagicksMay 11, 20161 votes

Petty comments aside, I only offered it as a solution to your specific problem. I don't really build Zhonya on Vlad because I kite and position reasonably well in teamfights, so waiting out the heal by simply surviving is ok most of the time.

I understand playing old Vlad was like second nature to you, but you have to look beyond that from a design perspective and not find faults with the current kit that consist just of "it's not his old kit".

I mean, I understand you personally don't find him comfortable and fun to play, but many, including me, feel otherwise.

I was there before the update, I discussed the rework with the developers and alongside TheUntitledKing made threads and polled players and whatnot trying to make it as easy as possible for the rework to make a healthier Vlad, because I saw his imperfections and frankly just didn't like getting stomped in lane that hard. If you had an opinion but did not contribute to that creative process, you don't have a right to complain.

ShìkìMay 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vj1tJToU,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-09T14:46:45.235+0000)

I can write a novel on how my thinking changed when playing new Vlad but really what you need is to practice and git gud. Buffs are needed and will be welcome but the kit is wonderful design wise.

E is an especially beautiful skill, it's the anti-all-inning tool (among other things) Vlad needed all along.

http://webmshare.com/R5aAE

Honestly, everything that was in the old kit is still there, but moved around, made faster and more fun. And new things have been added, things this champ needed a lot.

Wait for Korea.

GIT GUD.

Bullshit. E is a "if you all in me please kill me quickly" tool; that slow does jackshit as you buy Rylais anyways, and it slows yourself to even GET that slow, which is simply assbackwards. And you take 10% max hp off yourself to make you die just the more swiftly. Or in other words : every time I used E as a "anti all in tool", i got eaten by cho'gath because my hp dropped by 10% max and right intom his execution range; i got either just walked up upon cause of the self slow, or cho could easily hit Q due to self slow.

Curent Vlad can do exactly one thing : play relatively passive and do a decent job til ~10 mins, and then get horribly outscaled by each and every common toplaner and get steamrolled.

Do you know how you know the champ you play is fucking bad? When your enemy laner and jungler tell you "You played that well, fucking Vlad is just terrible currently" after the game. Especially when said enemy jungler was toxic to every other player for playing so bad, both on his and our team.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20162 votes

Your words reek of the low skill level that your division betrays. I'm not much better but you're objectively bad, especially if you think you want to E while in range of the Cho.

For one I'm happy Vlad will be played by people who actually know the game and can use his new kit.

Also, judging by your language you lack reading comprehension and are quite young. Won't bother replying, you can have the last word :).

ShìkìMay 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vj1tJToU,comment-id=00010000000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-09T21:53:50.319+0000)

Your words reek of the low skill level that your division betrays. I'm not much better but you're objectively bad, especially if you think you want to E while in range of the Cho.

For one I'm happy Vlad will be played by people who actually know the game and can use his new kit.

Also, judging by your language you lack reading comprehension and are quite young. Won't bother replying, you can have the last word :).

Your words reek of 0 game knowledge and just wanting to be an ass. See, if you actually knew the game, you'd have taken your calculator and ran some numbers. And there is one thing those numbers show : worse across the board, not even counting spellvamp. Add to that the gimping of his ult teamfightwise (less time for the dmg amp, less dmg amp, meaningless delayed heal), and the fact E slows you and the selfdmg is the only thing that went up in his kit, and you'd see the truth. But alas, you'd rather not do any work, and spout nonsese after having played vlad in what had to have been a botgame.

HugoExtraSauceMay 10, 20162 votes

also as a vlad main like you I win nearly every lane with the new vlad but I feel like his heal and team fight are really shity now his dmg in team fight is much harder to do compared to old vlad cuz all the enemy team needs to do is put thier tank in front of you and all of you dmg is gone ... and without WoTA his heal is shit you cant deny it

option paralysisMay 9, 20164 votes

I didn't say he's bad, although his 43% win rate says something. I just thought they added counterplay on the expense of his gameplay. Heal on ult and 3rd Q just so the 10% max hp cost is justified. If the enemy is a little tanky and you don't one shot them, you're actually just helping them kill you.

Blood MagicksMay 9, 20161 votes

I believe that was meant for me?

Yes, it's an if. The key here is to use E to stop tankies from getting to you. But also use it to make assassins regret jumping you.

HugoExtraSauceMay 10, 20163 votes

he is at 39% right now XD

BistrusMay 9, 20164 votes

Simply, do not play it. It's garbage now, even worse than pre-rework

LithiumWednesdayMay 10, 20163 votes

He definitely has less carry potential now, but his extended dueling is fantastic. His base damage is high enough that you can start item 1028 and rush CDR in lane. The Hextech Belt solves a lot of your mobility problems and basically adds another spell. The healing on his ult feels fantastic, especially in early fights. Also, you can actually CS with autos now.

This said, I still feel like his E projectiles need work and he could use base/scaling tuning.

QuephaMay 9, 20162 votes

Looking at his numbers, I don't think you should be charging up E for any reason, you just don't gain enough damage to justify the health cost. Especially if you build a Rylai's since that adds a comparable strength slow.

Imperial JapanMay 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like playing a champion which loses 30% max hp when I use 2 abilities. You heal like 70 hp on a normal Q and when you clear big waves you lose like 30% hp and you can't heal it back up. Yeah, 3rd Q has a big heal but for that you need to cast 2 normal Q's and be in a duel 10+ seconds and by that time you've already casted 3 E's = 30% max hp. Even if I get that 3rd Q off, all I get is the feeling "oh, they didn't walk away from me for 2 secs". I don't see why in the hotfix he's gonna get his base E stats buffed when the problem isn't the dmg at all. I have the blood lord skin and I played vlad a lot before, but this just feels really bad and it's a shame you can't refund skins after reworks anymore.

Well in exchange for losing 30% health he can burst you from full to nearly dead in one hit without ult so I'd say that's a good tradeoff

ZT XperimentorMay 9, 20162 votes

Not to mention his bases & ratios all got nerfed HARD.

TallyZrgMay 9, 20162 votes

I feel bad playing against Vladamirs since I know that their champion numbers are way off and end up just abusing them with one of the 5 other mages that got reworked this patch.

It's like punching a puppy, it kills me inside everytime :(

Summonerrr 1May 9, 20162 votes

It feels awkward because he sucks less now.

More shop-vac than category 5 maelstrom.

KettlesworthMay 9, 20161 votes

I don't know, I've found playing him to be really painfully unpleasant lately. Every game I've taken him into I've straight up fed. I know that's largely my fault, but he's just so immobile and just has no wave clear, and no real damage to make up for it. Old Vlad was the sustain king. New Vlad has weaker sustain, and all of his 'burst' has long wind up times. I finally had a game where I did well all early and mid game, but by late game, where everyone had full build, every single player on the enemy team could 1v1 me. The ADC's did far more damage and had far more healing. The tanks could outrun, or even straight up bully me down. The mage had long range poke, short range stuns, and superior burst as well. And then in teamfights, I'd do a little bit of good, but if I misplayed at all I'd be quickly left behind/overrun by all of the faster and longer ranged champs. Now old Vlad could be a bit of a rock, and if the enemy team got onto him he could at least damage all of them and heal up and pool and things could go okay. New Vlad just gets melted and can only hurt the front line.

It just felt incredibly oppressive. Riot's made Vlad 'fair' to play against, but he has so much counter play that it leaves him with not enough play of his own. If Vlad is playing against another character and they're both playing 'perfectly' the other character will win almost every time.

Many people have gone over why his Q feels so bad. Speed boost is negligible, and it's incredibly easy to be left hanging in the wind with a wasted empowered Q and nothing to show for it. I very rarely get to use it against another hero unless the player is being an absolute idiot or I use flash.

The E has too much counter play. It telegraphs how large it is (and is actually smaller than the graphic). Its damage is blocked ENTIRELY by any minion who is at all in the way. It costs Vlad lots of health leaving him vulnerable. And it slows him. And it's on a long cooldown. It's only good if you're up against a melee trying to dive you, but against mobile adcs, mobile mages, or anyone with a movement ability of some kind it's just painful to use. And having only two minions out of an entire wave take any damage from it because they moved into a funky formation is honestly tilting.

QuephaMay 9, 20161 votes

I don't think you're supposed to charge your E except in weird situations where you're very far ahead. You get better up-time on your rylai's slow, you get way more cost-efficient damage, and your damage is just more reliable.

FeathermaneMay 10, 20161 votes

You play Vlad? Yeah, I really feel bad for you. Got a lot more sympathy for anyone who's forced to play against that crap.

MealReadytoEatMay 11, 20161 votes

Vladimir feels smoother and more fun to me, but he sucks. If he was in a similar power level to were he was, I'd think he was a much healthier and fun champion.

WitchQueen AnnieMay 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Vladimir feels smoother and more fun to me, but he sucks. If he was in a similar power level to were he was, I'd think he was a much healthier and fun champion.

He is way under-tuned. Way under-tuned.