LCS viewership went down so much.

option paralysis·Jul 23, 2018·108 votes·19,335 views

Before you had like constant 200-300k people watching, and now they barely get 100k, mostly 60/80k. I dont watch it either, I just see that since I have them followed, but doesn't that say something to riot ? Or they just dont care since the game is trash for a while now. Like who wants to watch broken champs in every lane do nothing for 20 mins, then win a teamfight in 1 second cuz dmg lul and no hope for comebacks. Then you go into solo q and its the opposite, everyone running like monkeys and dying in half a second, and you can only hope you coin flipped a better team.

110 Comments

Crimson ZeppelinJul 23, 201860 votes

Who ever wants to see a farmfest with only one big fight that would decide the outcome?

SwiftKitten88Jul 23, 201821 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-23T06:19:36.853+0000)

Who ever wants to see a farmfest with only one big fight that would decide the outcome?

^ this exactly

damage is so fucking higher everyone is too damn scared to engaged because they could get 1 shot, there is no trading and back and forth in lane to watch.. they gutted vision so there are no fights over that. its BORING.

no one wants to engage anyone and i don't blame them damage is so high its not worth the risk, unless u have an absolutely perfect engage ready there is no reason to risk getting 100/0.

it is INCREDIBLY boring to watch with damage his high because NO ONE WILL FIGHT!!!

i want to see people TRADE, i haven't seen that in years.. and until damage is low enough that people are WILLING to do that.. lcs will forever be boring to watch.

its also more FUN to trade when you play the game yourself and horrible to play with damage this high. So the reason you are losing LCS viewers is the exact same reason your losing players.

Madsin25Jul 24, 20186 votes

Just the thought of actually having meaningful trades and fun teamfights get me to queue up for another game.

Total insanity.

Akali is SO HOTJul 23, 20185 votes

That's almost the exact opposite of what it is right now. Most games have been going into 20+ kills and there are at least like 8 deaths by 15 minutes.

chipndip1Jul 23, 20182 votes

Can you stop saying contrary shit already? That's why you were downvoted twice.

Akali is SO HOTJul 23, 20188 votes

Take a look at all of these games and count the kills. The games were so boring people were unironically cheering for ward kills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t429BaCBsIY

From yesterday's games in NA LCS we have: 21 kills in 32 minutes (GGS vs Echo Fox) 21 kills in 34 minutes (Clutch vs TSM) 13 kills in 26 minutes (LIquid vs CLG) 30 kills in 32 minutes (Opitc vs C9) 21 kills in 32 minutes (Flyquest vs 100 Thieves)

Just as an example from one of those EU games, in the FNC vs GMB matchup there was 4 kills in board until 23 minutes. In the Liquid for CLG match yesterday they had 3 times as many kills in just 3 more minutes. You can be in denial all you want I don't care. I'm just pointing out that what you people are claiming is just factually incorrect. If you wanna see 40 - 50 minute farm fests then just rewind to 2013 - 2014.

HaIlMonitorJul 24, 20183 votes

I think one of the major differences though now, which I agree older games sometimes did drag out, is now usually kills only happen with a gank (Yay 4 man tower dive Huni and he dies WOOOOW!!!). Where unless my Nostalgia googles are too thick it seemed like there were more in lane 1v1 kills.

GorantharonJul 24, 20182 votes

A lot of those older games dragged that long, because there were no great options to break a base.

The ward cheering especially happened because of that.

You could have a game with less one shot kills today, because Baron allows for all teams to have siege options and in a lower damage environment the constant damage Elder provides would matter in a more noticeable way.

MOLTinaTORJul 23, 201843 votes

Yeah, seeing Zoe almost every game gets boring at some point.

Madsin25Jul 23, 20187 votes

DrMundo

AirKingNeoJul 23, 20185 votes

yeah Zoe controlling the entire game after 15 minutes is pretty fucking insane. I cast for ABL series and a team, who was down 0-1, left Zoe open, and then the opponent first picks it, and all throughout the game, they aren't able to pay the maintenance costs of playing around Zoe because of how much pressure she puts on the map with her oneshot potential from a distance.

MetalGearTeemoJul 23, 20184 votes

its almost like giving a character an angling nid spear you can set up off one of the widest long range skillshots in the game off sleepy bubble it a huge cancerous thing to deal with at almost any skill level.

its almost like the boards were 100% correct the second they saw her kit.

RexxieeJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, seeing Zoe almost every game gets boring at some point.

Zoe? How about Braum?

The champ has been "meta" for the last 3 and a half years in competitive, and still unnerfed LUL.

Daddy AntsJul 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Zoe? How about Braum?

The champ has been "meta" for the last 3 and a half years in competitive, and still unnerfed LUL.

V8.8 Stats Armor growth reduced to 4 from 4.5. - This is a joke. 9 armor lost at level 18 LUL

Stand Behind Me Base resistances reduced to 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26 from 17.5 / 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5. Bonus resistances are now applied more responsively.

CodeNightFallJul 24, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, seeing Zoe almost every game gets boring at some point.

I watched an LCS replay game the other day, first one I ever watch, think it was H2K vs someone. Fun watching Zoe 100-0 a Professional player then take 2 towers off of it. Truly portrays the skill of the other play. Like seriously, imagine putting in 3k+ hours into a game only to have it destroyed because someone hit you with their one ability from 2 lanes away

Hexs FortuneJul 23, 201828 votes

Part of my problem is that I no longer feel like I'm watching the best in the world play the same league of legends that I do.

Their organized pro play is a completely different game compared to solo queue.

If I can't relate to what I'm seeing, then that's one less reason for me to care

WarpesJul 23, 201823 votes

Wait you mean to tell me people don't like to watch cancerous one shot metas of "pick the burstiest champ first"?

then ironically everyones too afraid to do anything cus pro players actually have fucking brains in their heads unlike retarded rito for thinking they'd actually fight more with this busted ass snowball system

it's not like the community warned them this was going to happen or anything

??????????????????????????

KhristophorosJul 23, 201822 votes

Personally I rarely watch because I'm not really enjoying the game. There's no motivation to check out what the pros are doing when the game isn't fun to play.

xJLx MCHammerJul 23, 201819 votes

Partially it’s due to the meta

More importantly, it’s just the stage of the game. It’s a 10’year old game. It’s been #1 for a better part of ~8 years.

When battle royals games became the new hot thing, LOL audience dipped. Now BR games are the new kids on block. In a few years, those games will reach saturation

Quite honestly, it’s amazing lol managed to be #1 for so many years.

On the bright side, every other games besides the BR games have also taken massive dives. It’s why lol still manages to be #2

HügöJul 23, 201811 votes

It has very little to do with the age of a game when games lose alot of players or viewers. Most of the time it is becasue of wrong decisions from the devs.

Linna ExcelJul 23, 20183 votes

I think it's a little of three things.

First is this is an older game so riot has to work a little harder to keep it not only relevant, but dominant. I don't think riot is releasing enough new champs or reworking older champs. League is stale in some respects. Then there's this weird meta that took over. Right now I think riot's seeing the worst of both ends: there's too much staleness in one spot and too much upheaval in another.

Second, I can't help but feel like the appearance of Overwatch forced league to speed up the game in some respects without completely balancing league around a faster game, namely in a lack of XP and gold earnings to keep up with the pace. This I think is contributing to league's problems.

Thirdly, there are the new BR games, especially Fortnight. I'm thinking that those games are a little easier on the viewer to watch, particularly for people not familiar with the game. League games have three phases, early game, mid game, and late game. So the flow of matches change. Then there's a big issue in that league is all about minions. BR games don't involve those things. Overwatch doesn't have those issues. I'm going to hazard a guess that minion manipulation makes watching league harder because it screws up the flow and pacing of the game by adding extra pauses that the viewer has to suffer through.

3TWarriorJul 24, 20183 votes

typically, when a game has developed a devoted audience, the only thing it has to do to maintain them is make sure that the up and coming games are not more interesting to those devoted gamers than it is. To do this, typically something such as a new game mode and community feedback work, otherwise, the game starts to crash and burn

instead, riot made the mistake of so many companies before it: it completely remade the game to be something it was not intended to be and did not interest the players that were devoted to it

xJLx MCHammerJul 23, 20187 votes

{quoted}

It has very little to do with the age of a game when games lose alot of players or viewers. Most of the time it is becasue of wrong decisions from the devs.

Are you really going to try and argue that the age of a game has little to do with player base?

Why do you think Riot constantly tries to add some to twist the game play? It’s because the second players start feeling like they are playing the same game (with no base line changes), it starts getting boring. Riot constantly tries to add mini changes to game in order to keep is refreshing/ “new”

Yeah, the games age does matter. As the game ages, it sheds and takes on new players. If mobas go out of side (genre itself), lol will lose players. It’s why you hardly see RTS games. They went out of style.

DoubleDownumJul 24, 20182 votes

I mean, while it is true that Riot must be innovative within the genre in order to prevent players from becoming bored, the key there is within the genre. Riot is trying to take what used to be a very strategic MOBA and transform it into little more than a top-down deathmatch whereby the players who get the first few kills go on a pub stomp--no strategy at all. They are forcefully dragging League out of the successful niche it once inhabited to try to convince people to stay with League rather than Fortnite or <insert cool gimmicky game here>.

It isn't going to work. If I wanted to play Fortnite, I would go play Fortnite or some other BR game. I wouldn't stick with League merely because it is faster to play, because it is inherently a different type of game. By changing League to fit whatever new genre pops up (which seems to be Riot's strategy post Season 6 or 7), they are destroying the niche that League once successfully held.

swimcris111Jul 25, 20181 votes

See Team Fortress 2

Cowgirl EdJul 23, 20186 votes

yeah football and rugby are so fucking old nobody watches them anymore either \joke

xJLx MCHammerJul 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baker of Targon,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2018-07-23T17:20:50.353+0000)

yeah football and rugby are so fucking old nobody watches them anymore either \joke

Thank god you had to dig deep down to from a totally different aspect to try dismiss my statement

Two can play at that!

Look at gladiatorial games. They are old.

No but really, physical sport doesn’t go out of style as games do. Games have an engine that gets out dated. Games have trend

Saying rugby is still popular is irrelevant.

3TWarriorJul 24, 20181 votes

fun fact? almost every game that has ignored its established audience has gone under or become niche for the few players it has

command and conquer only has a few thousand players. What did it do? it ignored the playerbase(Thanks to EA) and made poor decisions and coincidentally, the majority of its remaining players are Eastern...it doesn't even have official servers anymore and even tries to bleed the susceptible out of funds for full priced games and the mobile-copy that is Tiberium Alliances...

Runescape: total farmfest

some studios even stop developing entirely and it leads to the same result

the players want the games to have as much investment into them as the players invest into the game

xJLx MCHammerJul 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

fun fact? almost every game that has ignored its established audience has gone under or become niche for the few players it has

command and conquer only has a few thousand players. What did it do? it ignored the playerbase(Thanks to EA) and made poor decisions and coincidentally, the majority of its remaining players are Eastern...it doesn't even have official servers anymore and even tries to bleed the susceptible out of funds for full priced games and the mobile-copy that is Tiberium Alliances...

Runescape: total farmfest

some studios even stop developing entirely and it leads to the same result

the players want the games to have as much investment into them as the players invest into the game

Changes for the sake of change is bad.

Command and Conquer (Generals) was fine. RTS games tends to have limited life-time. They can't introduce new factions. The best they can do is small balance changes. CCG did decent for it's era. Few RTS games survive long. SC1 and SC2 are one of the few that have.

As far as Runescape goes, they made too many changes that deviated from original design.

BUT with all that said, you also have to understand that players get older. That same audience you got 10+ years ago may no longer even be your audience anymore. If you were ~13 years old when you started LOL, you're 23+ now. That same audience may have change since that. Hell, back then, I didn't mind playing 40+ games. Now, I wont do it. It's not that I don't appreciate it or don't like the length; i just can't devote that much time. The new players that LOL has picked up later on may have changed as well.

Also, fun fact. There is no 10+ year old MP game that is still so popular without constantly making minor game play changes.

3TWarriorJul 24, 20182 votes

minor changes are good, actually encouraged, especially if they offer something new that can let the players create and adapt

URF was one such thing back in season four or so and as players now put it, people loved it so much they would burn out(though I don't think that's really the case)

most jungle changes have been viewed as bad because they change how junglers play the game entirely. I do wonder about the marksman changes, but they are still the most powerful lategame class and decent otherwise. In fact, I would hope that marksman can start to focus more on abilities than on auto attacks unless they are a special case like Jhin that has conditional damage

although, I haven't kept up with starcraft, though the players do complain of rather frequent balance shifts instead of content updates

I suppose though that the real key to keeping the game alive is to keep the old players happy, so that they pass it on to new players as an enjoyable activity and then simultaneously having something that does not offend the old players but can appeal to the new ones

Anin777Jul 23, 20181 votes

Lool that's not the reason. PUBG came out and still had less viewers than League. Leagues downfall started in S6 when Dynamic Queue was introduced and we were forced to deal with it for A WHOLE SEASON. Imagine. Pro/High elo Players complained and people lost interest quick. Switch to S7. They reverted it, okay good. Then they started increasing dmg and adding CDR to every friggin item. Game becomes spammy, people don't like it, gg. Now S8, runes reforged. I was excited for this cos the UI looked cool but after using it extensively, I regret my excitement. They basically fcked up runes and mastery system and gave us something no one wanted. So yeah, Battle Royale games aren't the reason for League's decline. The decisions that Riot games made are to blame.

xJLx MCHammerJul 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Lool that's not the reason. PUBG came out and still had less viewers than League. Leagues downfall started in S6 when Dynamic Queue was introduced and we were forced to deal with it for A WHOLE SEASON. Imagine. Pro/High elo Players complained and people lost interest quick. Switch to S7. They reverted it, okay good. Then they started increasing dmg and adding CDR to every friggin item. Game becomes spammy, people don't like it, gg. Now S8, runes reforged. I was excited for this cos the UI looked cool but after using it extensively, I regret my excitement. They basically fcked up runes and mastery system and gave us something no one wanted. So yeah, Battle Royale games aren't the reason for League's decline. The decisions that Riot games made are to blame.

I never said Meta and patch don’t have anything to do with decline. What I said was that there were other factors in the decline Riot provides multiple way to watch LCS live and through replays. It adds more freedom

You mentioned PUBG but what about Fortnite? It’s not just fortnite, it’s every BR game. They are just popular right now. It’s easier to pick up/learn and watch. It’s incredible fast and you don’t get punished for quitting. It more casual.

That has a huge impact on games like LoL if the trend starts affecting lol. The trend now is quick BR games. It why other genres are trying to find a way to incorporate BR elements into their games. We see this with new upcoming games like COD.

I won’t argue that LoL did not lose players. But you are looking at the small picture. Every, and I mean EVERY MOBA game has lost player count and viewers since BR kicked it in over drive.

After 10 years, LoL and other MOBA games have reached saturation. Right now, as try to maintain the player base and pick up old players.

I also won’t argue that perhaps the meta/changes did impact the numbers (negatively). Hell, I quit because of how fast games were. But you don’t know how much the game would have lose had they done the opposite. It’s easy criticizing when you know the outcome of one path. I remember in s4, when players hated the 60+ min games. Hell, I had to quit LoL back in s4 because games could take as long as 60 minutes. Average game was 50 minutes for me.

No doubt, the popularity of Br games forced Riot to try and make their games shorter.

LauchmelderJul 23, 201811 votes

If I don't enjoy playing a game that lost every bit of strategy in favor of L€$ big play oneshots I don't want to watch a game that lost every bit of strategy in favor of L€$ big play oneshots.

ZackTheWaffleManJul 23, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-07-23T13:21:06.834+0000)

If I don't enjoy playing a game that lost every bit of strategy in favor of L€$ big play oneshots I don't want to watch a game that lost every bit of strategy in favor of L€$ big play oneshots.

£€$?

The IcebornJul 23, 20187 votes

Its THE SAME CHAMPIONS EVERY GAME .... Sooo boring*[sg-zephyr]*

PaffWasTakenJul 23, 20187 votes

Riot: "HMMMMMM... it seems like people are considering the LCS BORING... Well, we'll fix that by nerfing mages, buffing assassin, nerfing baron again and crank up even more damage pretty much everywhere so that the popularity will grow up! Everyone wanted this, I'm a freaking genius!"

Community: "...[EDITED BY MODERATION]"

JaspersJul 23, 20186 votes

Heimer is getting pro play for the first time in years and it's actually legit strat, not just a fun game at the end of the season, so you'd think I'd be up to watch more but no...

I've watched less pro games than before, not because I don't enjoy it, I do but it gets stale. I watch games with different champs in, that have lots of kills and look fun. I don't like watching the same comps over and over and the end of the game being 4-2 at 32 mins.

Best Ekko NAJul 24, 20186 votes

Terrible game, no reason to watch. Balance is shit, the champions I enjoy playing are useless, what's the point? This game is dead to me.

Wizard BlazeJul 23, 20184 votes

How ironic*[sg-lulu]*

Leto GTJul 23, 20184 votes

There's a no reason for to watch it honestly. It's just a clown fiesta. LCK is stills watchable but not as great as it is used to be. Streamers are 99% of the time crying and complaining. I feel that most of them are just streaming lol for money but clearly are just pissed of the game. What's the point of watching a stream when everybody gets one-shot. It's depressing and boring.

KVbqbFsC8eJul 23, 20183 votes

I don't see how the meta is really the reason as the majority of people hated the laneswap and 4v0 meta when the game had higher viewership.

THE D1CJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-23T09:08:42.280+0000)

I don't see how the meta is really the reason as the majority of people hated the laneswap and 4v0 meta when the game had higher viewership.

The issue is specifically this:

People used to love the game and complain about how the pros played it. Now they hate the game, and how the “pro balance”ruined it.

The current meta just doubles down on this, well at least they are working to fix the “can’t solo carry” unless you jungle. If all your laners suck. Enjoy picking up that 20 minion wave for 80 gold

xJLx MCHammerJul 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE D1C,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VeNWaQZW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-07-23T23:18:45.413+0000)

The issue is specifically this:

People used to love the game and complain about how the pros played it. Now they hate the game, and how the “pro balance”ruined it.

The current meta just doubles down on this, well at least they are working to fix the “can’t solo carry” unless you jungle. If all your laners suck. Enjoy picking up that 20 minion wave for 80 gold

I have been playing this game (on and off) since S1. Hell, this account I'm using has all champs/runes (when they were runes) unlocked. This account is as old as S1. I've been roaming the boards since S2. Believe me, even back then, people complained. Vocal minorities are always trying to be loud.

It's like the homeless man holding up the sign for 15 + years that "the end is nigh".

You gotta be able to distinguish the BS with the actual complaints. You have people in S7 saying that ADC's weren't OP in ardent meta.

ZtokaJul 23, 20183 votes

I rarely watch any of the LCS and there are a few reasons for that.. First off, way too much talking not enough gaming.. Secondly the game play is less than spectacular. Watching guys afraid to make a mistake means tons of safe play which is boring to watch.. The games just aren't exciting at all.. Well, maybe 5 minutes of a one hour block (casters talking, picking in draft, finally playing the game, interviews) is exciting but that really isn't enough excitement time for my hour invested. I have many other things I would rather do/watch/play, so that's what I typically do.

RemixtJul 24, 20183 votes

I stopped watching because the team rosters are too volitile for my taste. I know its better for E-sports in general, but I prefer when roster changes were more rare. The original C9 will always have a place in my heart.

sobi999Jul 23, 20182 votes

I actually enjoyed watching pro-plays now and then but recently I stopped watching it. The biggest reason I would say is that the diversity has strictly been reduced to meta picks. Yes, meta picks were always the LCS thing but now it is just way too punishing not to go for meta picks.

It is always the same fknnn champs and somehow people tend to forget that every game has at least 2 tanks at each side of the team. It's whoever CC's more wins. If one team gets ahead, it snowballs that lead and there is no thrill left of a comeback anymore.

Arcane Blue BoiJul 24, 20182 votes

some people dont like how ''cool'' it has become :/

undercover9000Jul 24, 20182 votes

In short, Coin flip Toxicity and total absence of Balance. UNFAIRNESS

Achilles HerzJul 24, 20182 votes

I want to watch LCS, but I just don't understand a thing during team fights. Everyone one is a melee champion and they are all on top of one another. Just boring to watch. That's just my thought and I don't know how others see it.