Can mages stay out of bot lane already so they don't have to be nerfed constantly eventually turning them into a support and booted from mid lane? Supports need to be stronger or mages are just gonna be the only thing played until they get nerfed into oblivion
Big Lincoln5 votesmages shouldn't have better base damages than supports when they're allowed the ability to scale far better
not to mention some of them have utility on-par with supports
Golden Tager X5 votesIt's called supports are supposed to be champs as well, but if they can ever function solo riot nerfs the fuck out of that shit. So champs that can function just get better bot than supports.
Redesignated1 votesCan mages stay out of bot lane already
Mage supports have existed forever (hi Morgana) and been balanced around being mages that can also support forever.
Zyra's rework basically locked her into supporting in most people's eyes; she was already pretty firmly cemented there before it, with the initial direction for her in the mage update being from a support perspective (it was only changed to making her "lane agnostic" after enough people told Riot they actually enjoyed taking her mid, top, or jungle). Even so, the vast majority of her play comes from bot lane. I don't find her that bad to deal with, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you want Riot to consider her as a mid-laner first and a support second.
Malzahar's update made him into a total mess (as if he wasn't before that), he's gotten tweaked and nerfed over and over since then and I really don't see it stopping any time soon; his design is extremely volatile and they seem intent on keeping the volatile elements, so any changes to the game environment can propel him to stardom.
LankPants2 votesMage supports have existed forever (hi Morgana) and been balanced around being mages that can also support forever.
No, they haven't. Might want to look back at season 2 where Morg was entirely a mid laner (she saw more play top than support). The only champs being played as supports at all were Janna/Soraka/Sona/Alistar/Blitzcrank.
I don't find her that bad to deal with, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you want Riot to consider her as a mid-laner first and a support second.
I guess the majority were just barking up the wrong tree then. 68% of people said Zyra mid>Zyra support. 88% of people wanted Zyra mid to be playable. I think it's fair to say that the Zyra rework was a complete and utter failure.
Redesignated1 votes"Forever" was hyperbole, apparently that wasn't obvious. They have existed for a very long, long time, ever since items actually started permitting them to. Support itemization actually becoming a thing was a pretty big deal, you likely remember that, if you're bringing up S2?
That was one one poll (started on reddit, if I remember right?), and it's less than 8k votes when there are a massive number more players for League that either play Zyra or decided to vote regardless. tl;dr a single Strawpoll gathering results from primarily one source is far from foolproof analysis. It's also still open for votes meaning the results are continuously fluctuating.
And, yes, they were barking up the wrong tree. Riot already had a set idea for her rework by the time people chimed in, and it's hard to say how much the opinions shared by players really influenced that.
Her rework was pretty great, from the revised mechanics it gave her — more frequent plant spawns, the ability for plants to actually have enough health to survive a stiff breeze — but it didn't really enable her much as a solo-laner, which was a definite shortcoming and probably an intentional sacrifice to prevent her from overruning support (which is now apparently a concern, although again I disagree with it). Regardless, "complete and utter" is a massive exaggeration.
LankPants1 votes"Forever" was hyperbole, apparently that wasn't obvious. They have existed for a very long, long time, ever since items actually started permitting them to. Support itemization actually becoming a thing was a pretty big deal, you likely remember that, if you're bringing up S2?
There've been other times where the support pool has shrank down to something like Braum/Leona/Alistar as well. It's not unheard of for mage "supports" to not be in the meta.
That was one one poll (started on reddit, if I remember right?), and it's less than 8k votes when there are a massive number more players for League that either play Zyra or decided to vote regardless. tl;dr a single Strawpoll gathering results from primarily one source is far from foolproof analysis. It's also still open for votes meaning the results are continuously fluctuating.
The percentages haven't changed since about a week after that poll was made. When I was analysing it in the thread it had the exact same percentages. There is no fluctuation.
As for the sample, yes that's not every Zyra player obviously. What it is however is a very large set of people. Even the most upvoted comment in the mid year thread was at +200 with just over 300 votes.
The thing about that poll is that it is the best available snapshot of people's opinion on the matter. You say 8k like it's a bad thing, 8k is several times larger than anything else we have.
And, yes, they were barking up the wrong tree. Riot already had a set idea for her rework by the time people chimed in, and it's hard to say how much the opinions shared by players really influenced that.
Riot's idea was wrong. Companies aren't perfect, sometimes their ideas are just bad. Zyra is the 'new Coke' of League. Riot thought she was better, they assured us she was better, she tested well. None of this matters though because in the end all that matters is player perception and she gets an F for that.
Her rework was pretty great, from the revised mechanics it gave her — more frequent plant spawns, the ability for plants to actually have enough health to survive a stiff breeze — but it didn't really enable her much as a solo-laner, which was a definite shortcoming and probably an intentional sacrifice to prevent her from overruning support (which is now apparently a concern, although again I disagree with it). Regardless, "complete and utter" is a massive exaggeration.
Riot's rework of Zyra was abysmal even from a design standpoint. They made her at the mercy of RNG with her dumb passive. Her army of plants is BS to play against and honestly less fun than her old playstyle. They took away the skill required to use Q in any way. They destroyed quite a popular style of play. It was an abysmal and catastrophic failure on all fronts and should be reverted in the same way as Kog's, pre rework Zyra wasn't perfect but she was certainly better than what we have now.
Redesignated1 votesThere've been other times where the support pool has shrank down to something like Braum/Leona/Alistar as well. It's not unheard of for mage "supports" to not be in the meta.
Of course meta champion pools fluctuate, this is a given; I'm not sure what made you think I was arguing otherwise. That doesn't change that mage supports as a concept and as a thing that have seen successful play, have been around for a long time. They are not something new and I sincerely doubt they can be removed without severely disrupting what many mages and supports do, in a way that would greatly damage the game in far more ways than mage supports existing does.
You say 8k like it's a bad thing, 8k is several times larger than anything else we have.
It's not a bad thing at all, but it's still a very small sample size overall (especially considering the global playerbase size), and it's an Internet poll with all the means for artificial vote inflation that brings; a grain of salt must be taken.
It was an abysmal and catastrophic failure on all fronts and should be reverted in the same way as Kog's, pre rework Zyra wasn't perfect but she was certainly better than what we have now.
As someone who liked her both before and after the update, both for support and mid (and occasionally top, but that's a separate story), I disagree.
Also, re:seed RNG: I don't think we ever got all of the exact information, but the coding for her plant spawns isn't entirely RNG — or at least wasn't during testing. They tended to spawn over walls if you were near them, or near champions that had recently attacked you, and in the general direction you were facing. I can't remember how many of these were actually confirmed by one of the people working on her update, but there are skew points in the RNG.
LankPants1 votesIt's not a bad thing at all, but it's still a very small sample size overall (especially considering the global playerbase size), and it's an Internet poll with all the means for artificial vote inflation that brings; a grain of salt must be taken.
And Riot is pandering to the approximately 13% who said 'support Zyra only'. I don't care if the poll's slightly out of line with what people think, it's not that far out of line. That 13% is not the majority. Most likely it's a smaller minority. What you'd probably find is that the majority of people fall into one of the two moderate groups, because most people will take the live and let live attitude.
Regardless pandering to such a small group of players is a huge failure.
Also, re:seed RNG: I don't think we ever got all of the exact information, but the coding for her plant spawns isn't entirely RNG — or at least wasn't during testing. They tended to spawn over walls if you were near them, or near champions that had recently attacked you, and in the general direction you were facing. I can't remember how many of these were actually confirmed by one of the people working on her update, but there are skew points in the RNG.
I don't really give a fuck how it's seeded. The simple fact is it's RNG. It fucks Zyra over. It fucks people playing against Zyra over. It feels bed when you get screwed by the RNG either way. It's RNG that needs to not exist in the game.
Jeanne fan club1 votesMaybe instead of tying all the supports power to the unique passives they buy, maybe they should make utility in supports kits scale with more abstract scalers like armor, or regen or something so that supports don't end up becoming utility adc's who rely on gold and items to make up their power.
Perhaps rework % heal amp so that it becomes a roa-like item that increases the heal amp each minute up to a set amount, or literally any other concept taht will augment the supports ability to support, instead of this support item meta that makes the support items more useful than the actual champion.
I swear, if the active of 
or 
were a champion, they would have the same winrate as most of the other supports. Support feels awful because the items are defining the role, when it should be the champions defining the role.
Redesignated1 votesSupport feels bad for a lot more reasons than items. And considering before the big support item update it was literally "build Locket, you are now Locket MR aura and shield bot, your job is complete," I feel like the problems, for however much items are involved, definitely stem much deeper than just that.
