You can have high damage, a metric fuckton of mobility, OR huge amounts of CC, no all of them.

Visigoth··16 votes·2,423 views

And add survivability to that. Some examples: Gragas Tons of CC, tankiness, subpar damage and mobility. And that would be considered one of the most OP junglers right now. And in a perspective of some of the newer champs, he's perfectly balanced.

Karthus Metric fuckton of damage. Has only one form of CC in the form of a huge wall that slows. Drawback is being fragile and having no mobility.

Anivia Tons of damage and CC, but with high mana costs, no mobility, and is one of the squishiest champions in the game.

Additionally, both of those champions don't have a passive if you plan on not dying once.

Khazix Good mobility, good damage, no tankiness or CC.

But let's look at some newer champions who appear to have just been given shit because "fuck it, why not."

Ekko High damage. High mobility. Hard CC (for 2 seconds). A shield. AND the ability to essentially turn back time to get out of a fight, do tons of damage to people near where he ends up, and heal. Notice, he has all 4 attributes. All of the previously mentioned have 2 at most.

Kalista Vayne Q on every auto attack. Another Vayne Q, that is a skillshot, on her Q that allows her to go through small walls (including the pits and base walls). Twitch E with way more damage and has a reset function and a good slow. Ability to force her support to her to knock up the enemy then proceed to peel even more. Free mobile wards.

Like come on, Riot. How the fuck did anyone think that was a good idea? Even the PBE said they were OP as fuck, but of course you don't listen to the PBE, because it's not like they're designed to give you feedback.

Why can't you make more moderate champions who have a few good attributes and then some drawbacks. You guys are like 7 year olds playing with toys trying to make the most bullshit overpowered thing possible. Yes Riot, you're the kid who goes "Nuh uh, my force field stops your attack!" instead of accepting that you lost. Velkoz needs to be your example champion when designing. Dude's literally never been nerfed or buffed. And you know what? He is 100% viable as both a mid laner and even a damage dealing support.

He has good damage, that requires precision to land, and a decent amount of CC. However he has no sustain and poor mobility.

Other good examples are Draven and KogMaw. While the former may seem to have it all (even a little bit of CC and mobility, plus he usually has lifesteal), he relies on axes for damage, which allow the enemy to know where he wants to be to catch them, and they can take counter measures. The latter on the other hand, has a shit ton of damage and range. But he only has a mediocre slow and no mobility at all.

That is balance. Not this bullshit having 17 slows, 3 stuns, a knock up, a 3k hp heal, a 700 true damage point and click ability on a 2 second cooldown, and a blink on a 2 second cooldown. Seriously, I don't know whether I should look forward to Ao Shin, since he's old and likely doesn't have the overloaded aspect of recent kits, or scared for when he comes out with years worth of developing the most bullshit into one champion.

17 Comments

Lost In Time8 votes

Already stopped at the part of Gragas having sub-par damage

I don't recall having a 160 base + 12% of your max HP on a 4 second cooldown is "sub-par"

In fact, Gragas' base damages being so high is exactly why he can build full tank and be extremely relevant at any point in the game.

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

But his damage is subpar when you compare him to Sejuani Amumu Sion Volibear Gnar DrMundo these other tanks that build similarly. His W is the only damage he has in the lategame when building full tank. Everything else he uses for CC and setting up his allies.

He's really on par with Maokai though. They have comparable CC, damage, and tankiness. I think Maokai is tankier but Gragas might have better CC, but looking at their damage, it's pretty close.

Gragas is mostly a problem because he is extremely safe. You have a hard time punishing him for making a mistake, he has a slow, a stun/dash, and a huge knockback to make sure you stay off his fat ass. He sounds similar to someone: LeeSin. The difference is that Gragas DOES do well later in the game, rather than falling off like a turd if he isn't fed. If you really want to nerf Gragas, give him some AP ratios back, because his laning is terrible right now as is. His Q is where nerfs should be implemented first; and if they are, he should get some increased AP ratios or allow full damage on minions again. Later. Peace

The Whamboozler5 votes

My name is Deitrix and this is my favorite post on the boards. thumbs up

But seriously... balance meaning "well-defined inherent strengths and weaknesses" seems to have been forgotten in return for "every new champ needs to have an answer to EVERYTHING". I blame the mobility creep personally. Ashe could kite well, so champs had to have dashes to get to her, so vulnerable champs had to have escapes to avoid dying instantly, so the ones coming at them needed MORE dashes and maybe a slow too...

Then the counter to the league of mobility reared it's head, and it was Annie . And to a lesser extent... Ryze . Immobile champs, yes. But they both slammed you with targeted, unescapable CC-Nukes that could blow people up in a VERY short time. It doesn't matter no matter how many dashes they had in their kit.. if they got within range of Annie's Q, they blew up. So NOW champs had to have a ton of dashes, slows, escapes and so on... but also raw, freakin' stats to survive that unavoidable burst. But the reign of tanks meant champions needed a ton of damage to keep the burly suckers in line or they walked all over everyone. % damage was the key there... along with free tank-shredding stats like armor pen and the like.

It all leads to Ekko . He's the champion we need, but not the one we deserve. He was built to be able to handle the game and everyone in it. He has a tool to use in every situation. He's safe, mobile, durable, does strong burst AND sustained damage, and has both soft and hard CC. He lacks for very, very little, hindered only by a slightly high skillcap. Another champ considered too complicated on release to do well? Zed . Yep.

What's truly terrifying isn't really the new OP hotness that riot keeps throwing into the game. It's knowing what the champs will have to be like in the future to deal with a game full of these new champs that seem to have everything. If that idea doesn't scare you... nothing will.

SolusInCadere4 votes

Bravo my good sir, you've uncovered what is wrong with league: specialized champions. No, really, even though the new champions have overloaded kits, they are still only one roll, and even then, very niche...if they weren't so OP as to also be good outside the niche.

Kalista needs to be that champion you pick against a skill-shot reliant bot lane or enemy team in general, not the go to ADC because she does everything (BTW, I actually thing Kalista is not OP. She lacks a real damage steroid, and so falls off late game compared to her opponents. She a mid game champ if anything)

But have you noticed that all the new champions are single role? RekSai is only a jungler, Ekko will probably only ever go mid lane, Kalista only bot lane, Bard only bot lane (but please don't play him), and so on

What we need are champions that can go into multiple roles with equal effectiveness, so that the match isn't decided in champ select. That is what I thought League...no, Riot, has strived for in the past, but I guess they'be lost sight of it now

BluePolarizer1 votes

Her rend is the equivalent of free 30% crit and 30 AD. That's half an IE in free gold.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I've seen RekSai mid and top lane, I've seen Ekko top, mid, jg, and support. Yes they might be put into a single role but does not mean they will stay there. People do take them out of there required lane.

SolusInCadere1 votes

And I've seen Braum jungle, it worked, barely, but you lost so much of his kit. I'm not saying people won't play them in other roles, just that they weren't made for those roles

SolusInCadere1 votes

Random passive stats on an active ability are random. Her rend stacks only do decent damage if you've applied them for a solid 5+ seconds with max or close to max attack speed, and if you can do that, your enemies are potatos

Crossette1 votes

I play Bard everywhere, and Kalista mid works (for some fucking reason we won a game yesterday doing just that)

So no, you're wrong xD

SlytherinUmbreon2 votes

Draven does it all

SolusInCadere1 votes

The stache shall rise again!

SeriousPig1 votes

Gnar

How are you forgetting him???

Raptamei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Scyther KR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VXy3vXlb,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-06-12T03:58:32.834+0000)

That is balance. Not this bullshit having 17 slows, 3 stuns, a knock up, a 3k hp heal, a 700 true damage skillshot ability on a 2 second cooldown, and a blink on a 2 second cooldown.

Ftfy.

Young Jerk1 votes

It's just how the champions are designed man, we can't just give Anivia innate tankiness or a insta dash now, it would make them OP. If you don't like those champs, don't play them, but I'll bet some people will still beat you with them because they're still good haha

Honestly this feels like one of those post where you just want to complain about something for who knows why, probably just mad irl

Dracid1 votes

you forgot ekko has a huge heal as well

LankPants1 votes

But let's look at some newer champions who appear to have just been given shit because "fuck it, why not."

It's not just new champs, it's certainly more prevalent in new champs but it's also present in some old champs. Just take a look at Lee Sin. He has immense damage, hypermobility and very strong CC, along side decent utility (very good for a bruiser) and strong sustain.

To me it seems like the most recent champ releases are actually based off of Lee, which is a terrible idea.

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