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New stat to help ADC

Kaìju··3 votes·892 views

Had a thought while talking to a friend today when I remembered and mentioned how Gnar gets attack range as he levels up, it's slight but it's there, like as hidden Tristana passive since the doesn't mention it anywhere in his kit. Then I got to thinking, what if ADCs got scaling attack range as as stat? They could have a weak lane phase by getting a board wide range nerf, say fifty to be simple, so every adc has fifty less range level one, but it goes up per level, to say end game they all have fifty or one hundred more rage then they do now. Some can get more range then others depending on champion, for example it would make sense for Cait to scale up to a really high attack range as a sniper, but Sivir being the speedy wave clear adc might only reach up to 550 end game. Just an idea, and I know we would need to change Tristana and maybe Jinx too but it's just an idea. Or for Jinx just make her a special case that doesn't have range scaling since her Rockets have their own interaction, kind of like how Ashe does with crit. Just an idea, let me know what you think.

35 Comments

Flaherty4 votes

So give all adc's Tristana's passive? Do you really not see how disgustingly broken that would make them and would pretty much ruin the game for every melee champion?

Kaìju1 votes

I mean, no adc would get more then seven hundred or so range, and many assassin's and bruises have gap closers of similar range so why not? Akali will still be able to jump on and melt them, as will many others. Yi can still Alpha Strike onto them, Olaf still can be CC'd, Zed has shadows, LeBlanc has two jumps, Yasuo can dash on minions, Malphite ult is still a thing. I don't see who would be so greatly hurt.

Flaherty1 votes

all melee champions that don't have mobility like that will be greatly hurt

Kaìju1 votes

I don't think so considering one the mobility creep of the game and two people like Darius and Garen shouldn't be touching the adc anyways. Juggernauts are a problem that have existed for a while and it should be noted that if they get on top of the adc rhea should kill them but as is, playing Ashe you still can't kite out Garen. Why is the adc with a permanent slow still getting run down, why is Cait still getting dived, why are adcs getting crushed.

Big Lincoln1 votes

you are playing very badly if you are letting Garen get onto you

Kaìju1 votes

Ghost or flash and Q with BC and Deadmans. Gotta go fast.

Big Lincoln2 votes

He has to burn summoners just to reach you, I don't see why that's an issue.

You're also wrong about his Q, looking at one of your below posts. It cleanses one slow and does not give him any slow resistance or tenacity after that.

Kaìju1 votes

Then why is it a 60% slow seems to do nothing when he's running at me despite me having 422 move speed and moving between each auto?

Big Lincoln1 votes

He still has a movement boost; it's just less because of the slow.

What's your usual build on Ashe? Consider Blade of the Ruined King if juggernauts are giving you trouble; the active helps you make some distance when they get close and they stack health so the % damage is useful.

Kaìju1 votes

Udyr should be the most kite friendly champion because he has a move speed boost and that's it. I had max crit for 60% on top of BC and he was still faster then me. How?

Big Lincoln1 votes

Udyr is way harder to kite than Garen with the right build. Triforce+Zz'rot Udyr is impossible to keep away, and his MS boost is on a much lower cooldown than Garen's.

Garen with Swifty's and DMP would be a big problem for a champion who's only got slows. If you're having trouble with him in 5v5s then I would say you either have poor positioning or your team isn't peeling very well. One of the big issues that makes lower elo players hate Garen and other juggernauts is lack of coordination.

Kaìju1 votes

The only champions that don't have gap closers like that are their not meant to be killing adcs and on top of them or the slow juggernauts who should be easier to kite then they are.

Flaherty1 votes

Any non gap closer melee gets picked top and and all you need to do is pick an adc against them to completely make them irrelevant because now the ranged adcs can even more safely attack them from range. All the things you mentioned in your other response just aren't true. Adcs aren't getting crushed right now, if anything they are in a much stronger place than ever before due to the item and champion changes recently. If you can't kite Garen as Ashe you are doing something fundamentally wrong and Cait having more range isn't going to stop people from diving her. If you properly utilize the massive advantage that carries have, which is their range and sustained high dps through auto attacks, and have a decently competent team you should have no problem playing an adc, they are actually extremely hard to deal with in a lot of cases if the player and their support are at all competent. Giving them all extra range will ruin the meta or force them all to have damage nerfs to counteract the increase in range just to make the game fair

Kaìju1 votes

Have you ever seen Deadmans Garen? Full crit Ashe has guaranteed 60% slow and he still runs her down, because his Q removes all soft cc for a time. And adc top would still till not be a good idea as one I suggested they lose range early game and two it's easy as hell to dive them so getting ganked would be guaranteed. Also recently Piglet was getting heat for not building QSS and Doublelift even commented saying it isn't a worth buy. Adc has no creative building. You build through maximum amount of dmg or you don't, and if you don't you are doing you're job worse.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Love Ashe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VJysmi8M,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-21T20:42:31.254+0000)

Have you ever seen Deadmans Garen? Full crit Ashe has guaranteed 60% slow and he still runs her down, because his Q removes all soft cc for a time. And adc top would still till not be a good idea as one I suggested they lose range early game and two it's easy as hell to dive them so getting ganked would be guaranteed. Also recently Piglet was getting heat for not building QSS and Doublelift even commented saying it isn't a worth buy. Adc has no creative building. You build through maximum amount of dmg or you don't, and if you don't you are doing you're job worse.

you seem to make a mistake in assuming, that a garen should never, under any condition be able to reach an adc.

he is an anti-carry. catching squishy carries and destroying them when he gets to them is his only job. usually that doesnt happen if the adc doesnt make some sort of mistake, and doesnt get additional peel by his support.

youre asking to remove his only success scenario.

warpenguin5552 votes

ADC's dont need buffs

Kaìju1 votes

So you think they are fine?

warpenguin5551 votes

pffffffffffffffffffffffffft no. They have 5 major problems right now. Caitlyn Vayne Twitch item 3046 item 3085 all need some urgent nerfs.

the rest are probably fine but those 5 things are ruining games

Kaìju1 votes

Those three adcs are the only ones that can even do exceptionally well right now.

Dryditch1 votes

The problem is that their ability to do exceptionally well is their norm, not their exception. It should not always be a case of "oh shit that's a twitch/vayne and now I'm dead before I have time to move away unless I flash."

Especially in the case of Twitch, who has an ulti that gives him attacks that reach further than tower range, the idea you've proposed is actually horrifying.

Kaìju1 votes

It wouldn't go past a cap, the longest normal range would still be 700. It just feels like every game I play the only adcs that don't end 4/12 are the top three, normally the A tier and B tier are still usable but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Adc has no defense options outside of hoping your team understands that maybe their adc is dying a lot because they are letting enemy juggernauts/assassins/bruisers/fighters get to them. The number if games where I ping for help from my team who is only 800 units away four seconds before I die is too high. And people will seconds aye sit farther back but too far back and you get zoned out.

Dryditch1 votes

That's kind of the point of the ADC. You don't get defense options because you're a glass cannon. If you want to play a tanky ADC, pick up Urgot.

Other damage dealers having defensive options (and doing comparable damage to an ADC) is a problem with those classes, not with ADCs.

Kaìju1 votes

Then why have they not been toned down yet?

Dryditch1 votes

If I had to guess, I'd say it has to do with Riot having other, more important balance concerns.

Sona Ping1 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornka9rAaKRA2Rkac/giphy.gif

The trap is that it does not, theoretically, fix anything and only exacerbates the peaks and valleys of comparative strengths and weakness. You would be lowering the range, and thus efficacy and usability, early game in order to weaken the early game of champions who cannot absorb damage and are dependent on their range to avoid it when they already have a weak early game and you are doing it to increase their late game range where they do not need strength added, and certainly not at the cost of removing it early and risk compromising their early game to make them worthless, or if they go well adding to their power.

Kaìju1 votes

But Assassin's and others can reach their power spike at item and a half and kill the adc three times before adc gets their nearly 6k gold core items.

Sona Ping1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Love Ashe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VJysmi8M,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-21T20:48:47.004+0000)

But Assassin's and others can reach their power spike at item and a half and kill the adc three times before adc gets their nearly 6k gold core items.

And your suggestion would make that worse, like I wrote? Pardon, I don't understand what you are getting at.

Kaìju1 votes

It would be scaled out though for more safety later. You can't make adc strong early so if you gut their early game make the late game stronger.

o0O Madoka O0o1 votes

Scaling range is very problematic to balance because of kiting. A 50 range difference can make a great difference.

In the case of Tris, she sacrifice a lot of early game damage in trade for that range passive.

Kaìju1 votes

Adcs would be sacrificing the same thing. Something has to be done because games end before adcs become a factor and it's problematic when assassin's and divers have ways to get to the adc from farther then they can attack. Most games I play in ranked now consist of four people building damage in a more burst oriented fashion. What are the odds the adc will be blown up if four out of the five enemies can kill her in under 2 seconds? And teams don't stop that, I've been killed by Rengar and LB in .35 seconds and having Janna won't stop top that because I'm dead before she even reacts.

MissingKayo1 votes

Fuck that noise. This has to be the stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Interesting idea, but this is one that I don't think will ever work.

That just messes with the game balance too much. League would be a completely different game when the dust settled from that change.

SeaGodUrronuos1 votes

No because that will make them a little overpowered compared to someone like the assassins because if they get something that slows based on basic attacks and the assassins cant even get close to them during a teamfight whats the point of having assassins?

Kaìju1 votes

Most assassin's have gap closers larger then adcs auto attack range.

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