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The top lane is a champion select role

RankOneUganda··30 votes·3,363 views

why do I insta lose lane because I don't have first pick? even if you get countered mid because its a damage focused lane you can still at least stay under tower as it is impossible to freeze lane well mid

Like. why do I bother not dodging if am not first pick. its actually impossible to do anything due to how ridiculous the counter matchups are

if am a bruiser and the enemy picks teemo or gnar. am fucked.

if I pick anything that isn't a tank and the enemy picks pantheon. am fucked.

there are other situations. but you get the god damn point. this lane has been like this for 3 years. it has been absolute bullshit. I never seen an adc go "fuck they counter picked me I lose" because the counters are so soft they need a viagra to even be considered. mid lane is a short lane and in jungle you aren't fighting the enemy jungler 24/7 but rather influencing lane so counter picking means SO MUCH LESS.

in top lane. here is ranged matchups. that will deny you cs. will poke you out of lane . and will take your tower first and will outscale you. why? because fuck top lane.

like my past 3 games. enemy picks wukong. I pick garen. I win. its just as simple as that. its a good matchup. the thing is. you can't go even against counter matchups. its a long lane that is easily frozen. you at minimum will fall behind on creeps and XP. and at that point you're practically out of contention of carrying the game.

I pick darius. and guess what. teemo top. I absolutely can do nothing to him. I lose. its that simple. if I am countered mid. I just get some potions and clear minions and run to my tower. fi I do that top 1) its a long lane and its easy to gank

2). its a long lane and is easily frozen for really long time

  1. because its a long lane if you're behind and you try to break freeze you will get chased down

63 Comments

Durzaka18 votes

You gotta make up your mind.

Are you upset you are getting hard countered or not?

Because if you have a problem with the hard counters, why exactly do you want first pick? You should want last pick for top lane.

Salamencę2 votes

{quoted}

You gotta make up your mind.

Are you upset you are getting hard countered or not?

Because if you have a problem with the hard counters, why exactly do you want first pick? You should want last pick for top lane.

This. For top lane you want last pick not first pick rofl. If you get first pick then you get countered, last pick ensures that you can counter the other top laner.

Jinzo Torrance6 votes

This post is a mess. Complains that wants first pick but then he says he gets counterpicked so he loses anyway. What?

GigglesO6 votes

{quoted}

why do I insta lose lane because I don't have first pick?

Thats because there was a time where tanks peacefully existed farming in toplane.

Community: "Fuck tanks, they shouldn't be able to ignore me just because they are a tank" Riot" nerfs tanks defense, ups their damages"

Community: "Thanks but we could use more tank nerfs so we can actually fight them. Riot Nerfs lane surviveablity via hp regen nerfs.

Community: "Thanks, but matchups are lasting too long" Riot: Buffs damage on all champs.

Community: "This is great, because now top is a fighting lane, but games are still slow" Riot: Buffs game damage for faster games.

Community: "That last patch was great, but now I'm starting to lose matchups that I should win" Riot: Buffs champions doing poorly.

Community: "Well now this class is under preforming in top compared to x class" Riot: Buffs damage again

Community: Holy shit everything one shots me if I don't play x y or z champion. Riot: Buffs damage on a b and c champs. "so they can compete"

That is pretty much the history of toplane. Now you have the shitfest of a lane where before in season 1-3 you just walked up, and took the cs. Sometimes you would even just ignore the enemy while he was damaging you and then walk back to tower to hp regen it all.

Hella Kaiser6 votes

i miss the good old times when tanks were unkillable CC machines... damn community...

GigglesO1 votes

Yea, but even though cc lasted longer I don't really remember dying that fast. Now it feels like I die before I even get un-cc'd

Hella Kaiser3 votes

the dmg is too high in general.

now tanks are like the old bruisers but with more cc. bruisers are like the old assassins but without the mobility. ADCs are ranged assassins. and assassins are a joke. the only things assassins can assassinate are mages... but that's because mages are also a joke.

GigglesO1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hella Kaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VJ1kcPRQ,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-12-17T00:31:52.877+0000)

i miss the good old times when tanks were unkillable

Me too.

Escheton4 votes

Safe picks exist you know. You can pick things that might get countered that will still get some farm and scale well into teamfights, even when behind. My personal choice is Sion, because I am used to playing him support also, so I know how to play him on a budget.

dominusx1 votes

aka tanks cause nothing else can get shit on hard and remain relevant because hurr durr bias.

AirKingNeo2 votes

aka be forced to play world's most boring and skilless class just to play the game, but have no fun.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Issue right now with tanks is that they aren't even falling behind in lane. They still can "outtrade" many bruisers and fighters, which is pretty stupid.

And by outtrade, I mean spamming the shit out of their poke ability from afar (which is supposed to be used defensively to help get CS) and preventing the enemy laner's poke from doing anything through shields/heals.

In Sion's case, you just max E, take comet and scorch, and spam the shit out of it until the enemy laner's hp bar is whittled and they have to go on the defensive/get ganked. Taking poke back? No problem, W. They want to all in? Q them away.

It's an uninteractive playstyle that's the equivalent of Pantheon's Q spam. Tanks just generally lack the ability to finish the laner off like Panth can.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

So pretty much "have you tried to pick ornn"? Guess what, not everyone enjoys playing tanks at all and certainly not everyone wants to be FORCED to ALWAYS pick a tank when they are not firstpick. Like look at my last games and how often i picked shen, i said to myself "whenever i have to fp i just play shen" so then you can go and estimate how many games i have gotten "firstpick" toplane. Fun. 8/10 games i am FORCED to pick a tank because riot is too lazy or unable to balance their fucking game and is just okay with panth, teemo, well played jayce and gnar having no counterplay at all for melees. I just imagine the same thing for botlane.

Escheton1 votes

{quoted}

So pretty much "have you tried to pick ornn"? Guess what, not everyone enjoys playing tanks at all and certainly not everyone wants to be FORCED to ALWAYS pick a tank when they are not firstpick. Like look at my last games and how often i picked shen, i said to myself "whenever i have to fp i just play shen" so then you can go and estimate how many games i have gotten "firstpick" toplane. Fun. 8/10 games i am FORCED to pick a tank because riot is too lazy or unable to balance their fucking game and is just okay with panth, teemo, well played jayce and gnar having no counterplay at all for melees. I just imagine the same thing for botlane.

And how often do you actually communicate with your team if you can pick for them? Don't complain about Riot being lazy when you make no effort to use the tools available.

Troll for Trump4 votes

Top lane is a bipolar lane, that's what I hate about it. The island, which was once supposed to be the best part about top lane, no longer works because of how much Riot has pushed the "team aspect" of the game. While some matchups may be a pain, it's generally still just 2 people at a standstill at 0/0/0. At least, until the jungler ganks. 2v1s are almost impossible to win for most champs. Illaoi is probably the only one who can reliably do it nowadays (Dar used to). While mid also experiences this problem, it's much less severe than top lane due to the shorter lane, the pathways the jgler can gank from, and the more mobile/ranged/safer champs played there, while Top is (supposed to be) immobile melees. So, what happens in most games is a jgler ganks, the laner gets a kill, then creates an unsurmountable lead that leads to one laner being useless. The exception to the rule is tanks, who are used to being punching bags and basically secondary supports. Tanks can do better when behind than Bruisers or Skirmishers.

What decides the lane most is the jgler.

Ironically, most junglers don't seem to recognize how important their role is, and whenever they get blamed, they'll fall back to the excuse of "stop blaming the jgler"

GigglesO2 votes

{quoted}

The island, which was once supposed to be the best part about top lane, no longer works because of how much Riot has pushed the "team aspect" of the game.

I think you mean damage aspect of the game. In previous seasons you just ignored the enemy laner because you couldn't 1v1 them without you both losing cs or dying. Now one of you just claps the other player and proceeds to win lane. Defense has only gotten weaker over pretty much every season.

Troll for Trump1 votes

The top lane island allowed you to play safe, farm, scale, and come back in teamfights to snowball the game.

That doesn't work anymore. Now, you need to TP gank and put constant map pressure to carry, especially in the heavy-impact bot lane, which is also the hardest for you to reach. This was always true to some degree, but it has only become more and more important

The top lane island is not a viable strategy anymore.

Dmg creep, while it reduces the amount of standstill in top-lane, doesn't really explain why "top lane island" doesn't work. You can still stomp the enemy top lane and lose the game, or lose horribly and win the game. Top lane just doesn't have an impact in comparison to the rest of the team

Hella Kaiser8 votes

jung: "top, stop feeding" me: "i can't, they're towerdiving me because their jungler actually ganks" jung: "play safe" me: "what's more safe than staying under tower waiting for a gank?"

still no ganks tho

Troll for Trump3 votes

"You got caught under turret, how dare you try to get cs so you don't become a useless potato in teamfights"

Oh, and the one that really tilts me is "just rush tank item on X fighter"

korg0231 votes

Yeah i also hate how easy is to gank top laner. You are basically always scared of enemy jungler to do anything.

NekoniClaws2 votes

watched a great video on this recently by gbay99 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21lIdcCQ6oQ

I don't touch top much myself. I only have tanks for when I do. Top's very much like a 1v1 custom game, but after it you group; and it feels like you got to a party late, everybody's already drunk, and you're tripping over empty beer cans.

Radiant Wukong2 votes

I can easily makeup for hard counter picks top lane by rushing Ravenous Hydra and some defense (bami + resistance) for wave clear and sustain. Which means getting poked under turret isn't going to be a death sentence unless you're against ranged.

Automated Riven9 votes

that doesnt do shit if they freeze against you, which they should be doing anyhow.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VJ1kcPRQ,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-12-16T18:47:06.038+0000)

that doesnt do shit if they freeze against you, which they should be doing anyhow.

Power creeps

The Lexer1 votes

Hydra also auto-pushes the wave towards them

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Then you just roam mid?

An Undead brat1 votes

Bye bye, turret. And another turret. Where is our inhibitor?

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Ah, so they take three turrets + inhib while they're freezing the wave in the same time you take going mid? Yeah that seems about right.

Automated Riven1 votes

That works great, unless it's early in the game. Tbh wukongs comment and my reply don't even address the actual problem. Post six sure, go roam mid if they freeze. The problem is playing against a teemo or Pantheon or something that just shits on you and they freeze it early. I have been up 100 cs at 12-15 minutes in top lane because I was playing a lane bully and froze and would let them cs. And a level 3-4 toplaner isn't gonna do shit roaming mid. And unless your jungle shows up to break the freeze your fucked.

koshkyra1 votes

Lol, the rammus top that ganked me 8 times in 10 minutes agrees with you!

Haha!

Please look away while I cry
Durzaka2 votes

Do tell how Ravenous Hydra and some defense will help a Malphite win against a Nasus

Didnt lanes are different. Very very few champions right now can geta way with rushing Hydra in a lane they are hard countered in.

Automated Riven1 votes

Try zero. Hydra is a shit rush on every champion barring possibly fiora. Damage is so high that sustain doesn't matter unless you have health to not instantly die.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

{quoted}

Do tell how Ravenous Hydra and some defense will help a Malphite win against a Nasus

Didnt lanes are different. Very very few champions right now can geta way with rushing Hydra in a lane they are hard countered in.

Malphite has a huge advantageous over Nasus in every aspect. But if Nasus focuses on his stacking and builds defensively (Iceborn & SV rush), the match can become stale, with neither being able to dive the other without dire consequences, so top lane gets abandoned in favor of team fights.

Durzaka1 votes

Youre so hilariously wrong I dont even know where to begin.

Ill start with, Nasus has a 56% win rate against Malphite.

Malphite can do NOTHING against Nasus once nasus gets a few levels. And once Nasus gets a Sheen, the lane is over, Nasus will walk over Malphite because while they don't deal a ton of damage to each other, nasus will shred armor, and sustain himself, giving him the advantage in every fight.

Radiant Wukong1 votes

{quoted}

Youre so hilariously wrong I dont even know where to begin.

Ill start with, Nasus has a 56% win rate against Malphite.

Malphite can do NOTHING against Nasus once nasus gets a few levels. And once Nasus gets a Sheen, the lane is over, Nasus will walk over Malphite because while they don't deal a ton of damage to each other, nasus will shred armor, and sustain himself, giving him the advantage in every fight.

Thornmail.

General Esdeath 2 votes

This is why I'm switching to adc and mid this season. Why play top when my favorite picks like Riven can just

  1. Get poked out of lane way too easy
  2. Get fucked by tanks because fervor is gone
  3. Die under tower at 6 minutes because towers are shit

I've been having way more fun playing Vayne and Jinx bottom and getting spicy with Viktor mid lane.

SanKakU1 votes

[deleted]

Troll for Trump1 votes

Uh, playing a new role doesn't change the fact that Top lane is basically nonexistant.

SanKakU1 votes

[deleted]

Troll for Trump1 votes

How does your comment make any sense? The OP complains about the current state of top lane being champ select based and useless, while you suggest for him to play draft or some other role.

How, in any way, does that address the OP's problem?

SanKakU1 votes

There's no rational basis to his argument. Why address it at all? He obviously needs to change the way he plays the game, and that seems like the simplest solution.

Perma CC1 votes

There are plenty of ways to be useful if lane is getting frozen and you cant do anything. This thread is a joke. Also if you really are so worried about hard counters, play a top laner that isnt hard countered by any champion. ALSO TP is a summoner spell for a reason.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

So basically comes down to you telling us to just pick a tank. Cool. I just imagine you not being able to spam zyra in 10 games in a row because you always had to firstpick and picking zyra would make you automatically lose the lane and game i bet you wouldn't find this fun at all.

Rouwhorst1 votes
  1. Counter picking has always been a thing, the extend of harm it does has probably increased

General reasons why top is counter pick dominant

  1. Champion pool played top is large, so there are more possible counter-picks 1.1 Riot is trying to make champions unique, with new mechanics and play patterns, creating new possibilities which can be strong versus other specific things. (e.g Fiora w vs any delayed high impact ability)
  2. Champion pool for top spans over multiple classes, each having their own play pattern.
  3. High level players can play every champion well, removing the immediate drawback from picking a counter they normally don't play.
  4. Consists of mostly Melee champions which increases the contest around minions

Reasons why top now sees increased counter picking 4. New runes/preseason. 5. Game length: Shorter games with shorter laning phase and quicker late game/end of game 6. Items 7. increased mobility

KlydeFrog1 votes

lol wow your complaining about this?. i just play leo top and i always ban teemo, or here is a thought play panth and or vlad because they are early game and counter pretty much everyone.

KlydeFrog1 votes

learn to build right and take right runes for starters. here is the thing if your playign agasint teemo always rush adaptive helm first and you should alwqays be taking the defense runes. to start i would suggest taking the rune on the defense tree that is the identical passive to dorans shild and start dorans shield. or start mr item thats 450 and instead of taking the 10min armor mr boost take one of the other 2 where you gain armor and or mr. those are in there for a reason

xShiNjiNx1 votes

it has been this way for YEARS.. Hense why in proscene the top lane generally is the least variety. It's all about who can survive lane and be useful in dragon fights and mid-late game team fights.. remember season 4.. Rumble, Ryze, Gnar meta..

Lauchmelder1 votes

{quoted} if I pick anything that isn't a tank and the enemy picks pantheon. am fucked.

Joke's on you, I'll just play GP and mirror his playstyle (QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ)

Shrek Luigi1 votes

The severity of people's counterpicks may feel a bit over-the-top but, at the same time, there have always been champions who are prone to getting counterpicked.

It's always important to recognize what the FotM (flavour-of-the-month) toplaners are/how they might be picked for this reason, and recognize which champions are safer when you have to pick first. Someone like Urgot could be a safer first-pick than most because of his ability to trade, and how difficult he is to kill under turret due to his shield-bait. Someone like Maokai could be a safer pick because of his innate sustain/how hard he is to kill without hard-countering or itemizing a certain way. Yadda-Yadda...!!

Blazehhh1 votes

Well with top lane, there are definitely a lot of times where counter picks have a much higher win percentage than who they're facing, but say you really learn the ins and outs of your champion, you can figure out how win against your counters. Or you can go the easier route and main a different role, as a top lane main I'm really feeling tired of this thing happening

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