Still waiting for Lower CD, Bigger Range Physical Damage Garen R

Kingsgrave·Feb 9, 2015·6 votes·769 views

riot pls

11 Comments

67chromeFeb 9, 20152 votes

Why would you want it to do physical damage?

Magic Damage essentially translates into a free Last Whisper for almost the entire game. MR is about 35% lower than armor through base stats and itemization for all of mid and late game, only being higher than armor in the first few (like 1~3) levels of the game.

Having mixed damage makes champions a pain in the butt to counter-build, preventing that otherwise glass-cannon Graves or Zed to become a mega-tank against the likes of Garen with a Thornmail alone.

The only real advantage of having a pure physical-damage kit is specifically to scale very well into late-game with multiple AD and %armor penetration items - which Tanky DPS champions that need to build tanky can't realistically do in the first place: due to the time and itemization space restrictions the game has.

Nooot really sure if being physical damage would be a good trade-off for a lower CD, bigger range deal either. Having 100% armor penetration and doing %HP damage is probably not worth.

Lower CD I can see though, any advantage his ult gives is pretty useless if he can never use it. It's not exactly the omni-pressent ultimate of Shen, TF, Karthus, or Soraka yet it has a surprisingly similar cooldown.

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Why would you want it to do physical damage?

Magic Damage essentially translates into a free Last Whisper for almost the entire game. MR is about 35% lower than armor through base stats and itemization for all of mid and late game, only being higher than armor in the first few (like 1~3) levels of the game.

Having mixed damage makes champions a pain in the butt to counter-build, preventing that otherwise glass-cannon Graves or Zed to become a mega-tank against the likes of Garen with a Thornmail alone.

The only real advantage of having a pure physical-damage kit is specifically to scale very well into late-game with multiple AD and %armor penetration items - which Tanky DPS champions that need to build tanky can't realistically do in the first place: due to the time and itemization space restrictions the game has.

Nooot really sure if being physical damage would be a good trade-off for a lower CD, bigger range deal either. Having 100% armor penetration and doing %HP damage is probably not worth.

Lower CD I can see though, any advantage his ult gives is pretty useless if he can never use it. It's not exactly the omni-pressent ultimate of Shen, TF, Karthus, or Soraka yet it has a surprisingly similar cooldown.

Garen always builds item 3071 champion.gg shows that Garen usually has 19 Armor Pen runes Garen always uses his Q then his E then his R to kill a target, which would prime his target for his full damage

Physical Damage can't be blocked by annoying items like Hexdrinker. You can actually avoid Garen's R if you build an item that has nothing to do against him.

Honestly mixed damage is only useful on characters that aren't casters like Irelia. Otherwise it destroys any possible scaling they could have. Look at Eve for an example of this. They turned her E into Physical damage to destroy her scaling and penetration. Your argument goes against this idea, but it happened.

Also, Riven exists. So does Elise and Nidalee . They have executes that scale really really well with damage and they are deemed fine in Riot's eyes. Why can't Garen have this too?

67chromeFeb 10, 20151 votes

Physical Damage can't be blocked by annoying items like Hexdrinker. You can actually avoid Garen's R if you build an item that has nothing to do against him.

Which is a victory for Garen.

Changing his ult to physical means people start counter-building him with items that hit his entire kit rather than one spell. Rather than Hexdrinker you're running into things like Sunfire Cape ruining his entire day.

His ult changing to physical is a flat out nerf to his lanning phase.

Also, exists. So does and . They have executes that scale really really well with damage and they are deemed fine in Riot's eyes. Why can't Garen have this too?

Riven and Nidalee's executes basically just critically strike when someone's at low health, those don't actually scale with an opponent's HP. If you Wind Slash a 900 HP unit that's at 33% HP you do ~500 damage to them. Wind Slash a 9,000 HP unit that's at 33% HP and you do ~500 damage to them.

Demacian Justice a 900 HP unit that's at 33% HP with Garen and you do ~500 damage. Smite a 9,000 HP target that's at 33% HP and you do ~3,000 damage to them.

Garen's execute doesn't scale with any damage stats because that would be redundant/broken. His ultimate directly scales based on the strength of his opponents - it doesn't matter if they have 10 HP or 1,000,000 HP - he smites 40% of their remaining health regardless.

Riven and Nidalee have scaling on their executes because they'd be phased out really quickly if that weren't the case. Garen's doesn't have AD/AP scaling because it already has enemy HP scaling, and it's never phased out no matter how long a game lasts.

As for Elise 1-uping Garen by having her execute actually scale with AP and HP: she's not pure-AP: she still has auto-attacks and a massive %AS steroid pushing her into the 50/50 physical/magical tanky-derp zone. Nidalee also has to contend with AD scaling auto-attacks and a large %AS steroid splitting her kit's direction as well.

Again - the only time you'd want to do a singular type of damage is if you're playing a glass cannon that needs no defensive items, like Riven. Otherwise you run into Garen vs. Ashe scenarios where one of the worst 1v1 champions can just grab Thornmail and proceed to out-tank you, forcing you to heavily invest in armor penetration so squishies actually feel squish - which in turn makes you squishy. At that point you're not playing a tanky DPS champion or even a tanky derp, you're just playing a derp.

KingsgraveFeb 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Which is a victory for Garen.

Changing his ult to physical means people start counter-building him with items that hit his entire kit rather than one spell. Rather than Hexdrinker you're running into things like Sunfire Cape ruining his entire day.

His ult changing to physical is a flat out nerf to his lanning phase.

Riven and Nidalee's executes basically just critically strike when someone's at low health, those don't actually scale with an opponent's HP. If you Wind Slash a 900 HP unit that's at 33% HP you do ~500 damage to them. Wind Slash a 9,000 HP unit that's at 33% HP and you do ~500 damage to them.

Demacian Justice a 900 HP unit that's at 33% HP with Garen and you do ~500 damage. Smite a 9,000 HP target that's at 33% HP and you do ~3,000 damage to them.

Garen's execute doesn't scale with any damage stats because that would be redundant/broken. His ultimate directly scales based on the strength of his opponents - it doesn't matter if they have 10 HP or 1,000,000 HP - he smites 40% of their remaining health regardless.

Riven and Nidalee have scaling on their executes because they'd be phased out really quickly if that weren't the case. Garen's doesn't have AD/AP scaling because it already has enemy HP scaling, and it's never phased out no matter how long a game lasts.

As for Elise 1-uping Garen by having her execute actually scale with AP and HP: she's not pure-AP: she still has auto-attacks and a massive %AS steroid pushing her into the 50/50 physical/magical tanky-derp zone. Nidalee also has to contend with AD scaling auto-attacks and a large %AS steroid splitting her kit's direction as well.

Again - the only time you'd want to do a singular type of damage is if you're playing a glass cannon that needs no defensive items, like Riven. Otherwise you run into Garen vs. Ashe scenarios where one of the worst 1v1 champions can just grab Thornmail and proceed to out-tank you, forcing you to heavily invest in armor penetration so squishies actually feel squish - which in turn makes you squishy. At that point you're not playing a tanky DPS champion or even a tanky derp, you're just playing a derp.

This isn't Season 2. If a character has an ability that does damage it should be the type that they can itemize for otherwise they might as well just make his ultimate deal True Damage.

Knight DevoutFeb 9, 20151 votes

Riot gives no fuck about champions with low skill ceiling. I think their balance stance about Lee Sin and Zed abudantly showed this to be a fact.

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Devout,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHVKy0bA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-02-09T12:46:11.287+0000)

Riot gives no fuck about champions with low skill ceiling. I think their balance stance about Lee Sin and Zed abudantly showed this to be a fact.

well they gave Garen the awesome regen buff a while back

Knight DevoutFeb 9, 20151 votes

after nerfing it, you mean?

ccseancc143Feb 9, 20151 votes

Nah Garen is a no skill champ. Doesnt deserve buffs.

aaronconlinFeb 9, 20151 votes

Still waiting for buffs after the death of DFGaren

RenailleFeb 10, 20151 votes

Now that dfg was removed, there is no reason for his ult to deal magic damage. Composite damage is better early but falls off hard late since you can't build one penetration item for all your dps sources.

StephenizgodFeb 10, 20151 votes

Hmm i know it sounds weird i kind of like that Garen's ult doesn't do Physical Damage. It means that my opponent will take almost full damage from it. Sure they can build a hexdrinker or whatever, but then they miss out on armor or damage.

It should have a lower CD for sure, bigger range would be much appreciated, and if it did True Damage that would be amazing but lol not going to happen.