From now on I'm going to only build Penetration Items and Full Pen Runes

Kingsgrave·Feb 9, 2015·5 votes·1,152 views

until Riot finally decides to rework Penetration so that you can be tanky before 300 armor/mr

28 Comments

AnOstrichWithPMSFeb 9, 20154 votes

full pen zyra destroys everything

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20152 votes

I love building Zyra with full pen and Liandry's/Rylai's. But that's because I'm evil.

darkdillFeb 9, 20152 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjVmeKWOsEU

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjVmeKWOsEU

Went 12/3 as Wukong top with this set up

3/0 out of lane and then got fed as fuck

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20152 votes

Mpen works well on mages and supports who have terrible ratios. I have gone full mpen Vel'Koz to great effect. Elise likes mpen too, Amumu and Sejuani aren't too bad either. Leona seems like someone to try it on, can anyone say whether they've tried it? I assume it would proc on her passive too?

With full Mpen reds and quints, Sorc boots and Liandry's, you can get 44 flat mpen. Void staff plus masteries gives 39% mpen. Abyssal Scepter reduces MR by 20. So you're basically dealing true damage to most glass-cannon squishies. For champions with high bases and crap AP scaling, this is great.

If enemy has 64 MR, they take true damage. If enemy has 100 MR, they have effective 22 MR. If enemy has 200 MR, they have effective 83 MR.

TL;DR penetration is in a ridiculously strong place currently... largely because it works amazingly against both tanks and squishies.

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEWiAOzH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-02-09T08:56:03.150+0000)

Mpen works well on mages and supports who have terrible ratios. I have gone full mpen Vel'Koz to great effect. Elise likes mpen too, Amumu and Sejuani aren't too bad either. Leona seems like someone to try it on, can anyone say whether they've tried it? I assume it would proc on her passive too?

With full Mpen reds and quints, Sorc boots and Liandry's, you can get 44 flat mpen. Void staff plus masteries gives 39% mpen. So you're basically dealing true damage to most glass-cannon squishies. For champions with high bases and crap AP scaling, this is great.

TL;DR penetration is in a ridiculously strong place currently.

Flat Armor Pen allows you to ignore most if not all armor. I often see Garen and Gnar players with full Armor Pen pages. Talon in SSW would often have Full Armor Pen as well.

Tried it on Wukong and it removed most of his trading issues, especially since you usually rush Tiamat + Brut on him anyway.

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20152 votes

Oh I know. As broken as Mpen is, Arpen is equal or worse. For starters, the runes have more Arpen than Mpen, so a full set of reds and quints starts you at 19.2, Brutalizer is an easy rush item, and if you're a jungler who builds Warrior, it doesn't even count as a unique passive anymore. I guess in theory you could have full runes (19.2), Warrior enchantment (10), Youmuu's (20), Black Cleaver (10), and 39% from masteries and LW... a total of 59.2 arpen.

pleepFeb 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEWiAOzH,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-09T09:05:51.605+0000)

Oh I know. As broken as Mpen is, Arpen is equal or worse. For starters, the runes have more Arpen than Mpen, so a full set of reds and quints starts you at 19.2, Brutalizer is an easy rush item, and if you're a jungler who builds Warrior, it doesn't even count as a unique passive anymore. I guess in theory you could have full runes (19.2), Warrior enchantment (10), Youmuu's (20), Black Cleaver (10), and 39% from masteries and LW... a total of 59.2 arpen.

ALL of those items for only 59 flat pen is not broken at all. Flat pen is actually one of the most balanced things in the game.

% pen? ... that's arguable.

The way to balance tanks and defensive stats is to BUFF armor and some of these champions individually. But flat pen by itself is completely fine.

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20151 votes

I think it's more the combination of flat and %, and the way they work together. Before the rework, increased flat pen made % pen less useful, so you had to choose between itemizing for tanks and itemizing for squishies. Of course, that's really counterintuitive and that's why they changed it, but there's got to be some way to balance, like maybe VS/LW should "penetrate 60% of bonus MR/Armor". Useless against squishies, great on tanks. Flat penetration can stay the same.

pleepFeb 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Flat Armor Pen allows you to ignore most if not all armor. I often see Garen and Gnar players with full Armor Pen pages. Talon in SSW would often have Full Armor Pen as well.

Tried it on Wukong and it removed most of his trading issues, especially since you usually rush Tiamat + Brut on him anyway.

Whats SSW?

BTW I have been running 19 arpen on all of my champions for a long time. It makes your early-game dreadfull and only starts to outscale after lvl 9.

You are better of running 15 AD if you are worried about trading

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Whats SSW?

BTW I have been running 19 arpen on all of my champions for a long time. It makes your early-game dreadfull and only starts to outscale after lvl 9.

You are better of running 15 AD if you are worried about trading

Samsung White

They won worlds

LlaniteFeb 9, 20151 votes

Apen is the most expensive stat, tbh I don't see why everyone wouldn't run Apen runes.

Captain AishiFeb 9, 20151 votes

leona's passive damage counts as your ally's damage source, so it also works with their pen stats (when you go leona/draven duo lane for example, at the end of the match stats draven will have a couple thousand magic damage dealt, that's leona's passive)

Kitten of EvilFeb 9, 20151 votes

Ah okay. Disappointing for Mpen Leona then :(

FoggyPawsFeb 9, 20152 votes

I've been trying to tell people forever that item 3174 item 3165 item 3020 item 3151 item 3089 item 3001 is so mean, but everyone spits at me telling me "Oh you're not building enough AP, get some damage you retard" and "lol what's with that build what an idiot"

But then I go 12-2-10 Xerath carry, long range, damn near true damage, infinite poke at 40% CDR and Infinite mana

KingsgraveFeb 9, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I've been trying to tell people forever that is so mean, but everyone spits at me telling me "Oh you're not building enough AP, get some damage you retard" and "lol what's with that build what an idiot"

But then I go 12-2-10 Xerath carry, long range, damn near true damage, infinite poke at 40% CDR and Infinite mana

Abyssal is somewhat pointless on Xerath because your ranges are longer than the aura.

FoggyPawsFeb 9, 20151 votes

I don't usually get abyssal, it's mostly the other 5 items people get mad at me for, my 6th is situational, depending on champ and enemies

Killer X 12Feb 9, 20151 votes

Yea, void staff instead of the Abyssal. And hourglass would be better than Liandry's just because you should be the enemy's target if your 12-2 lol.

killd0zerFeb 9, 20151 votes

Lol why would they get mad? Like 3 of those items are core on Xerath. The other 2 you listed aren't actually that good

LlaniteFeb 9, 20151 votes

Annie Khazix Talon Fizz Pantheon MonkeyKing Zed Riven Shaco Leblanc Rengar will delete you in less than a second.

All I need is the 70% of your gold, plus summoner 4

FoggyPawsFeb 9, 20151 votes

And how do you plan on getting anywhere near Xerath? If it's laning phase you'd never get close, I've got flash too, and a very easy to land stun and if it's teamfights, so long as the team is paying attention too, and we've got things warded, I'll see you coming.

LlaniteFeb 9, 20151 votes

If you have lightning reflexive and can flash when I flash, that would be a problem, yes, but I still have yet to see that level of skill in high gold.

Sooo, assume the safe Xerath staying behind while the other 4 at the front, and you saw me coming at your back, what are you gonna do? If you don't flash when I flash, you die, if you flash to the front, someone else will kill you, if you flash to any other place, I will dash in and 1v1 you at point-blank.

FoggyPawsFeb 9, 20151 votes

It's not exactly hard to tell if someone is going to try to flash or not, 9/10 times someone isn't going to flash unless they're certain they're going to land an ability, the only ones that have the kind of range that can reliably flash-to-ability a max range poke Xerath, that you posted, would be LeBlanc, and an Evolved Wing Khazix, and even then that's a skillshot dash, not a targeted dash, so there is plenty room for error. And you don't seem to realize just how far Xerath can hit you from.

To be honest, the only 2 champions that give me any kind of a hard time in lane, is Ahri and LeBlanc, and that's because mobility. Not like Zed mobility, and besides I always shut him down in lane, his mobility is predictable, Ahri and LeBlanc can kind of just go wherever at damn near any given time, and Ahri's new Q speed is kind of mean, but manageable

Now, to be fair, these are all situations where I'm doing halfway decent that game, as well as my team, this game is pretty dynamic, and subject to change, what you don't seem to understand is, that this is a team game, and that our teams are going to be focusing on just you or me. I know, as Xerath, that I can often reliably kill 10/11 of those champions you just listed, because they're easy to see coming with average ward placement, and have fairly short range abilities. Most of those champions, also don't exactly build many resistances. Panth, Wu, Riven, and Annie (RoA), sure, but the rest, I'm cutting through 1/4th to 1/3rd their HP from 1400 units, 1100 units, and 1050 units away. (Q,W,E respectively) And if you're building resistances just for me, I'll have noticed and changed my build as well.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, everyone makes mistakes, and yeah, obviously if I get caught out I'm going to die, that's how lots of burst mages work, if you catch them off guard, they lose. But it's the same with most of the champions average builds you posted. You'd not be building tanky either, and who's to say my team wouldn't see you coming too, and instantly punish you for being caught out, behind us, away from your teammates.

At that point it's not a 5v5, it's a 1v5, then a 4v5. Pre-fight I'm busy poking your team to death from a distance, infinite mana and 2 seconds between my Q and W, I can alternate those 2 spells forever with my build, I never have to stop, and the CDR just lets me spit them out as often as I like, for as long as I like. If we get jumped on, we're not warding, and that's our fault.

LlaniteFeb 10, 20151 votes

Not as easy as it sounds :)

In order to flash away from the oppressor, you need to: +Realize what's going on. +Move your index finger from wherever it is to the F/D key +Move your cursor across the screen.

Whilst your oppressor only needs to press R and you're hit. Even if you knew someone was coming and bypassed step #1, there are still #2 and #3. Of course, you can cheat it by always having your finger on D/F, mouse in the jungle, but that'd also mean you won't be casting anything.

FoggyPawsFeb 10, 20151 votes

You're kidding right?

Zed is the only champion there that you listed that has a player targeted ult, the rest of those are ground targeted aoe, directional aoe, skillshots, or self-buffs.

You still are not grasping how much range 1400 is. And if I can see you, so can my team, if you come from anywhere that's not near your team, you're caught out.

You have to wait for your team to initiate, but by that time you've lost 1-2 people because Xerath burst has the range to do so earlier than a lot of other mages.

Killer X 12Feb 9, 20151 votes

You mean like they would do to litterally any carry...?

I don't see why people bother mention what you just did.

Its like when people complain about a champ being op, and someone response with "oh just CC them" ...no fucking shit.

LlaniteFeb 9, 20151 votes

No fun spitting it out but people will avoid you with either item 3157 item 3102 item 3026 .