Jungle Guide for 5.22

USG Failsawce··1 votes·1,213 views

I keep seeing a lot of posts of people complaining that the new Jungle is too difficult, but I feel that a lot of that is people who are looking at things the wrong way or not thinking outside the box.

I will admit, I am unranked (for personal reasons), but everyone I play with agrees that I am, at the very least, an excellent Jungler.. certainly have room for improvement I'm sure, but I've never once had a hard time even back in pre/early season 5 when everyone said it was "impossible" - even with champs like Khazix.

So I decided to write this Jungle Guide... mostly just tips to help those struggling to get by with clears and their builds. Take it how you will, and feel free to contribute or criticize. Granted there are plenty of exceptions to all of this like champs with excellent sustain - nautilus, shen, warwick, graves (lol), etc. But for the most part if you follow this guide it should help you get by with those champs you do struggle with.

THE GUIDE

SUSTAIN TIPS:

  1. Always buy Hunter's Machete first, still - Despite the recommendation on many champs to get Hunter's Talisman first, it's still entirely better to start with a machete for best/fastest clears, bonus exp, and better sustain as a result of said fast clears. Mana sustain isn't really that much of an issue with the right runes/masteries and clearing approach.

You should pretty much ignore most of what's "recommended" anyway, and build what works best for that champ, and particularly, for YOU.

  1. ATTACK SPEED RUNES - Extremely extremely important. Almost no matter WHAT champion you play (exceptions: Lee Sin, 'maybe' Pantheon, etc), even as an AP Jungler. You need to be running attack speed for the fastest/best clears, which in turn gives you better sustain (due to not dying before the camp does lol).

The best base setup for pretty much 'every' jungler is AS marks (or quints if using AD marks/ADC), Armor seals, and whatever quints/glyphs are preferable to the archetype of the champ. For instance AP quints/glyphs if AP, AP/armor/movespeed quints if tank with CDR or Scaling MR or both, glyphs, etc.

**It's important to understand that you should be building for the best clears, so that you're not behind when you actually do try to gank. What's better? Having some extra magic pen runes that 'may' help a tiny bit mid-late game, but being 3 levels behind everywhere anyway? Or being close to same level with more items finished, and actually being able to gank optimally?

  1. Proper Masteries - I see a lot of people with the mindset that you HAVE to get runic affinity, and run 12+ points into the Cunning tree as a result of this. IMO (or possibly just personal preference) I feel as though RA is slightly overrated. I usually give away my 2nd or 3rd buff(s) anyway. Sure it helps with Baron buff too, but is that worth a bit of extra clear time, and thus possibly more successful ganks/objective control? More of a mana heavy mid-laner mastery anyway IMO.

Taking masteries like Tough Skin and Veteran Scars will help a great deal with sustaining, and a great deal more as a Jungler overall. Even masteries like Recovery and Perseverance can help your sustain a bit on first clears. Also consider getting more attack speed and Fervor if you go 18 into Ferocity. IT HELPS.

As well, you don't HAVE to run 12 points into a secondary tree. You can run something like 18-6-6, or 6-6-18 (if you must have Runic Affinity). Savagery certainly helps clears too, so it's not all bad to go this route.

  1. Back early if you have to - It's ok to back early and upgrade your refillable potion for instance, if you have to. Better to be able to hit a Benchmark first, but it's still far better yet than executing or being useless when you do go for ganks/objectives. And the potion will make it so you can practically sustain infinitely from that point on, thus you catch up.

Otherwise, if not low, it's best to not back until you can reach the next item upgrade you're after, and possibly then some (wards, boots).

OTHER JUNGLE TIPS

  1. Consider ganking early - Pretty much regardless of what champ you're playing, if the enemy is pushed, or your teammates can setup a good gank for you to come and get an early kill or assist, this can get you set for a while, and allow you to have better map presence. As early as level 2, if you think you can pull it off.

If nothing else, practice it... play with people you know, or if you have teammate champions you know can help you to accomplish this.. Letting the enemy laners push up, thresh lantern, bard journey, supports with lockdown, etc, all viable strategies for this.

  1. Help the lane AFTER you successfully gank - Several ways of doing this, and all are very important. Let me put it this way, when you gank a lane successfully, and either you or the lane gets the kill, dont just 1 and done and leave it at that. Go off and do other things.

A) Help them shove the wave into tower, this gives both of you exp, and denies a LOT of farm, gold/exp, to the enemy laner. It also ultimately resets the wave back to the center or near center of the lane for them to continue freezing or what have you. Just be sure they're OK with it - say "let's shove" or ping turret. Some people just want to keep it frozen... even if it's less optimal than forcing a TP or denying farm. Shrug. B) If possible, take the turret. Don't just gank, say "nice job" and go back to the Jungle. Get those objectives, apply that pressure. Very easy to do right now... C) If they have to back, hold the lane for them (but last hit/freeze - don't shove).. don't underestimate that bit of gold and especially lane exp that you get. Something that is a bit harder to get in the Jungle. Do this for laners even if you don't gank for them first. D) **Come Back. Regank that lane, camp if you will. Their summoner spells are likely down, they're behind now.. it's easy to get yourself and the laner fed this way, so you can both carry. A bad strategy that people seem to follow is to gank a lane successfully... then go try and help one that's losing bad. Keep ganking the first lane, and then ONCE you're ahead enough, go help elsewhere. Chances are that losing lane gank is going to be unsuccessful or end in both of you dying anyway. Of course there's plenty of exceptions to this, you don't always want to just completely disregard some lanes.

  1. WARDING Used to be that I would buy a pink every first back, and 1-2 green wards every subsequent back til 9 (for trinket upgrade). Would use the pink to ward my own Jungle to help against invaders, and place greens at either dragon, or even more often enemy buffs. Can't really do this anymore since greens no longer exist, but you can still make attempts to ward as such with offensive pinks/yellows.

This did a few things - gave me vision for potentially invading and stealing said buff and/or killing the enemy jungler or getting a flash out of them. It also helped to give my teammates the knowledge of what side of the map the enemy jungler is on. The best is when an enemy mid goes to take blue, and I ping my mid to come help me steal it and/or kill them, or steal it for myself.

Also, every other reason for warding :D

  1. Dragon/Rift Herald isn't THAT important The buff is nice, sure. But it should not be #1 priority over teammates lives, turrets, inhibs, etc. And much much less, the Rift Herald as well. Especially considering how difficult it is to kill for a one person buff. And unless you are absolutely CERTAIN you can get either of these uncontested (early on, unless you're ahead), don't bother.

The way I see it.. the objectives priority goes in this order.

Inhibs > Baron > Turrets > Dragon > Rift Herald

I would also argue that if quite far behind, you should not bother going for Dragon/Baron/Herald if there's even a remote chance of contestation. If anything, try to steal it safely, or at the cost of 'only' one life. Anything more is not worth getting put further behind at all. One Dragon buff won't turn the tides of a bad match... but getting objectives like other turrets, or successful ganks elsewhere, while Dragon is being done certainly can.

One strategy I like to use is actually this in reverse... if we're very far ahead, I like to wait on getting Dragon. I actually hold off on it until the enemy team uses the same poor logic and tries to use it to "turn the tides" and then just ping my team to murder them all :D Remember? I use wards.

END OF (gigantic) GUIDE

Well I hope this helps, even if it's just a few people... and isn't just a complete waste of 30 minutes lol. Certainly wrote a lot more than I originally intended.

Good Luck Junglers.

24 Comments

My Sea Cow2 votes

Will say it's a decent jungler guide for those that aren't too familiar with jungling. Only thing I disagree with is the attack speed Quints or marks. Unless your jungler needs attack speed for their kit (shyvana....jax...warwick...etc), use AD marks or quints instead. My Wukong runes for example are AD marks. Armor seals. Scaling MR glyphs and AD quints. I'll sometimes put 1 armor quint if I feel I want the extra armor.

And dragon buff can be extremely beneficial for your team mates and shouldn't just be ignored

USG Failsawce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Sea Cow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VE0L7Pv3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-15T17:55:31.593+0000)

Will say it's a decent jungler guide for those that aren't too familiar with jungling. Only thing I disagree with is the attack speed Quints or marks. Unless your jungler needs attack speed for their kit (shyvana....jax...warwick...etc), use AD marks or quints instead. My Wukong runes for example are AD marks. Armor seals. Scaling MR glyphs and AD quints. I'll sometimes put 1 armor quint if I feel I want the extra armor.

And dragon buff can be extremely beneficial for your team mates and shouldn't just be ignored

Wukong is one of those 'few' exceptions I was talking about. Roughly 3-4 champs out of the sheer amount of Junglers there are. The rest absolutely want to run AS runes of some kind or another, generally marks. It's kind of been like a golden rule for a while now...

As well, I didn't say that Dragon should be ignored. I said it shouldn't prioritized in certain situations, like when you're team is behind and have no chance of contesting it.. a lot of people make the mistake of saying "oh! they're going for drag! hurry!" and ping like crazy for teammates to charge into their deaths to try and steal it. Which, not only do you not get drag... but put you and your entire team even further behind for no good reason.

While those teammates could instead be put to better use pushing their lanes and getting turrets/kills/other objectives to counter it.

This was the logic behind my statements on Drag. It should be a priority, but not above teammates lives, turrets, inhibs, baron, etc. Especially if already behind.

My Sea Cow1 votes

My favorite junglers are Vi, Wukong, Tahm, Shen, Nautilus, Amumu, Sejuani, Zac, volibear, etc. I think I only have 1 AS on Vi but on those others none of them have attack speed runes and would never put it
I don't think even saying majority of them need it is true.

Warwick, Aatrox, Trundle, Nocturne,Rek'Sai (maybe), shyvana, jax, trynd (maybe)...thats all I can brainlessly think of at work who I'd use attached speed for

USG Failsawce1 votes

Sorry dude, but even completely regardless of all other arguments I've made... I cannot for the life of me understand why you wouldn't want AS on champs like Tahm, Shen, Natuilus, Sejuani, Voli...

AS does far more for them than just clearing. Shen Tahm and Sejuani get their passives off (and subsequent refreshes) so much faster. Voli gets his bite quicker. Nautilus attack speed animation for his passive is increased to optimal lockdown and cc chaining with additional AS. I can go on with so many more champs... These are things that have been discussed on every league forum ad nauseam.

Wukong is the only one (AD casters as I mentioned below) that would gain far less benefit from AS, of the ones you mentioned - hell I even see almost every VI build running full AS quints (but I don't play her). But the rest... I just don't understand lol.

I don't mean to be a dick, but I'm starting to really wish I hadn't written such lengthy replies to you below, as it seems you really just aren't wrapping your head around the mechanics and concepts of this game and it's jungling... at all...

UberAffe1 votes

I disagree on always machete and AS in runes, Talisman and AP/armor/MS on amumu works great probably works on other champs like amumu.

Add on: The best path I have found is Krugs(smite) > RazerBeaks > Scuttle > Red(smite) > Blue > Scuttle > Gromp(smite) > Wolves

I do this path with Yi, Amumu, WW and on all of them I have full health when I start Red, Blue, and Gromp

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree on always machete and AS in runes, Talisman and AP/armor/MS on amumu works great probably works on other champs like amumu.

Even on Amumu I run attack speed, you really can't beat it + Machete for fast clears. His W+E is also great for clears, sure, and thus yea more mana is good. But if you start blue side you don't really need the talisman and your mana is fine. After your first back, pretty much no matter what you get, you already have the mana you need to keep sustaining (Hunter's Pot or Talisman).

The only exception to this would be if you did indeed start red side for some reason, and wanted to gank that side of the map early, or wanted a better leash (near bot). Otherwise blue buff mana/cdr, AS+Machete should give the fastest clears.

Think of it this way: the faster each individual camp dies, the less 'sustain' you need (talisman). Machete (bonus dmg PER HIT to monsters, rather than a minor heal Dot) and attack speed, ensures this happens. Next back you have both anyway, AND the attack speed for further speedy clears.

I did say there were exceptions to the AS, but IMHO Amumu isn't one of them. I could be wrong, but I tried it both ways, and unless I'm missing something AS machete was much better.

Add on: The best path I have found is Krugs(smite) > RazerBeaks > Scuttle > Red(smite) > Blue > Scuttle > Gromp(smite) > Wolves

I do this path with Yi, Amumu, WW and on all of them I have full health when I start Red, Blue, and Gromp

That's not a bad route at all. Not for every champ and you do lose clear time as a result, but it makes ganking easier for a while too since you leave red side with red buff the freshest. Good addition mate.

My Sea Cow1 votes

Why would you run attack speed in an AP tank?

USG Failsawce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Sea Cow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VE0L7Pv3,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-15T20:38:26.144+0000)

Why would you run attack speed in an AP tank?

I don't know dude, why would you?...

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/2005988073/38249375 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/2160629906/1407660 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/2075496144/32150260 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1996067614/19660288 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1809444404/47257274 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1995790939/22479740

Not to mention the tremendous amount of youtube videos and twitch feeds by Gold through Challenger players, and LCS players, and all kinds of "pros" - not only running AS on almost. every. single. jungle champ - But explaining the same reasons as to why it's so important in commentary, and jungle guides, etc.

You clear faster, sustain better as a result, get gold and levels faster so your ganks are more optimal and successful, reach items and benchmarks faster, and have more time for everything else. As opposed to what? Magic pen? Something that literally won't even help you at all in the early stages of the game, and very little mid-late game anyway.

Here's a better question for you. Why wouldn't you want to run attack speed on an AP tank? Tanks, which have, by FAR, the hardest times clearing and staying on an even level with all others in the match?

Troy2426211 votes

{quoted}

I don't know dude, why would you?...

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/2005988073/38249375 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/2160629906/1407660 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/2075496144/32150260 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1996067614/19660288 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1809444404/47257274 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1995790939/22479740

Not to mention the tremendous amount of youtube videos and twitch feeds by Gold through Challenger players, and LCS players, and all kinds of "pros" - not only running AS on almost. every. single. jungle champ - But explaining the same reasons as to why it's so important in commentary, and jungle guides, etc.

You clear faster, sustain better as a result, get gold and levels faster so your ganks are more optimal and successful, reach items and benchmarks faster, and have more time for everything else. As opposed to what? Magic pen? Something that literally won't even help you at all in the early stages of the game, and very little mid-late game anyway.

Here's a better question for you. Why wouldn't you want to run attack speed on an AP tank? The champs that have, by FAR, the hardest times clearing and staying on an even level with all others in the match?

Malzahar REALLY doesn't need AS. Straight AD is the way to go.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar REALLY doesn't need AS. Straight AD is the way to go.

lol I should hope so.

Obviously a troll post, but even still when was the last time you've even seen an AD malz Jungle?

Troy2426211 votes

{quoted}

lol I should hope so.

Obviously a troll post, but even still when was the last time you've even seen an AD malz Jungle?

Er..AD Malzahar is one of my most-played junglers. It actually works.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

Er..AD Malzahar is one of my most-played junglers. It actually works.

Did I say it doesn't? lol

I guess you missed my point here... not just on this post, but the entire thread. Oh well.

My Sea Cow1 votes

Oh I'm sorry I forgot we follow the builds blindly of the pros. For every build that you can post with attack speed, I can post another without. It's all preference.

No need to get so defensive when someone asks a simple question or disagrees with you. I'm done with this topic if you can't have a decent response without getting so defensive and offended because someone disagrees with you.

Why wouldn't I run AS on an AP tank? Because I'd much rather make my tank a tank and be able to absorb damage for my team instead of having runes that do nothing for me late game. The only tank I'd consider putting AS on would be Tahm or Braum (support) purely because of their passive.
If AS works for you, great....I have never used it and never found a need. It's all preference.

USG Failsawce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Sea Cow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VE0L7Pv3,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-15T23:21:34.043+0000)

Oh I'm sorry I forgot we follow the builds blindly of the pros. For every build that you can post with attack speed, I can post another without. It's all preference.

No need to get so defensive when someone asks a simple question or disagrees with you. I'm done with this topic if you can't have a decent response without getting so defensive and offended because someone disagrees with you.

Why wouldn't I run AS on an AP tank? Because I'd much rather make my tank a tank and be able to absorb damage for my team instead of having runes that do nothing for me late game. The only tank I'd consider putting AS on would be Tahm or Braum (support) purely because of their passive.
If AS works for you, great....I have never used it and never found a need. It's all preference.

It's not really preference though mate, I'm sorry to say but you're pretty much, just plain and simple, completely wrong here... That's kind of my point lol. Fastest clears are fastest clears... that's not something that's changed by preference. It's not just the fastest, it offers the most overall sustain and efficiency. Playstyle doesn't really factor into this sort of thing, at all, until you start talking about different routes, build paths, actual ganking, things like early dragons, and actual skirmishes/teamfights.

For instance, you CAN play where you clear 1 camp every time and then immediately back, and claim it to be fine because it's your playstyle. But you would be wrong lol. If you were to say however, you like to clear 2 camps, then gank, then come back to clearing, THAT would be playstyle, and make some sense. But the speed and efficiency at which you clear, is still faster with AS runes, no matter how you look at it. That's just how it works.

What are you using as Marks if not AS or MPen/APen if you're going tanky? More armor? I mean, that's fine... but you're losing out on a tremendous amount of clear efficiency for something that does very little for you past the armor seals you should already have. And it actually ends up making you ultimately LESS tanky as the game progresses, because you'd be behind (in gold, exp, levels, ability to gank optimally), even if it's only a little. Do you see my point here? And why I say it's not 'really' preference?

USG Failsawce1 votes

I also fail to see how I'm getting defensive or offended by posting links and giving the exact same tone of response though? Is this a joke? lol.

This has nothing to do with "blindly following the pros" either, I was using them as examples for what has been pretty much considered the best jungle clear for a while now. But they do use this method for a REASON. And chances are you won't find any of those same champions on that website, or practically any reputable guide in existence, without AS on the 'majority' of Jungle champs. However, as I've said several times now though, there are exceptions, but they are FEW. They pretty much fall under the category of AD casters, Wukong being one of those.

And at the same time, just because YOU don't find a need for AS on certain champs, does not make all the pros and guides in, pretty much the world, wrong here either. I don't know how else to explain this to you without 'actually' sounding defensive and douchebaggish lol.

By all means though you can play without AS, I'm not writing this guide, or responding to try and stop you... but you're not going to get the same clearing results. It's that simple.

Now I'm done arguing on this one minor thing myself. I've written entirely too much, particularly in these last responses.

Erockandroll1 votes

I'm not sure if OP is reading between the lines with Hunter's talisman. 20 damage over 5 seconds doesn't sound like much, except that's applied to each monster. I tend to go Blue -> wolves -> Red -> rapters. So for my first clear I'm effecting at least 3 enemies. that's over all, 60 health steal over 5 seconds. or 12 a second.

in comparison, the 20 on hit damage, you would really need the AS to make it effective as a fast clear method. But the 8% life steal against monsters, wouldn't hold a candle to that. The main appeal of machete is on high AS Junglers, preferably ones who can prevent damage. (like jax, maybe panth) while lacking major AoE damage. It's by no means, better than talisman.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure if OP is reading between the lines with Hunter's talisman. 20 damage over 5 seconds doesn't sound like much, except that's applied to each monster. I tend to go Blue -> wolves -> Red -> rapters. So for my first clear I'm effecting at least 3 enemies. that's over all, 60 health steal over 5 seconds. or 12 a second.

in comparison, the 20 on hit damage, you would really need the AS to make it effective as a fast clear method. But the 8% life steal against monsters, wouldn't hold a candle to that. The main appeal of machete is on high AS Junglers, preferably ones who can prevent damage. (like jax, maybe panth) while lacking major AoE damage. It's by no means, better than talisman.

I'm not sure that you're reading between the lines of my own on advice this matter. This is a tried and true method that's been used by every "pro" jungler for a while now, and still is with this patch. Just because riot chose to put Hunter's Talisman on the recommended list, doesn't automatically make it the best first item.. You all should be well aware of this by now (nope riot's never been wrong about anything right? much less the recommended list...<.<).

As a matter of fact, the majority of the posts where people are complaining of the "new jungle" being extremely difficult, are people who decided to follow Riot's recommendations and take the Talisman first. Where almost every single reply on the matter was simply "dont get the Talisman first, machete is still best, and take AS marks". Sounds familiar, right?

Likewise, it's not a matter of the "8% lifesteal being weak or not as good as talisman passive". That has nothing to do with why I and others recommend it instead. It has to do with the fact that if you CLEAR FAST enough, you don't even TAKE nearly as much damage. You don't even NEED the heal dot/hot from Hunter's Talisman.

In the end, you wind up with roughly the same exact health... with the added benefit of much faster clears. Leaving you with the ability to put your time to better use ganking, and controlling objectives.

Sure you can take the long routes, clear much much slower cus you walk across the map inbetween camps, etc. But you're clear times are terrible that way. You can say "oh but my sustain is amazing with this method!" but in the end, you're just hurting yourself overall.

Jungling is a great deal about efficiency... And this is about as efficient as it gets.

BluePolarizer1 votes

this is a decent introduction to jungling but in no way is even close to covering what you need in high elo solo queue.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

this is a decent introduction to jungling but in no way is even close to covering what you need in high elo solo queue.

Did I say that it was? lol..

I said it was a basic jungle guide for people who were struggling to get by their first few clears... due to the sheer amount of posts I keep seeing people making on said subject since 5.22...

Dehitay1 votes

If you're going to take machete first every time, yeah, AS runes are usually going to be beneficial. But this will generally cause you to lose a lot of health and go back early instead of get a full clear. There is one trap Riot laid out that I don't think I've seen mentioned here yet. And that's the refillable potion. For most junglers, one of your major early game objectives is racing to level 6. And one of the best ways to do that is a very large first clear. For that, I would recommend ignoring the refillable potion that gives you an extra 200 health and get 3 health pots that give you an extra 450 health for your first run through.This will generally let you get your tier 2 jungle item after the first clear which will mostly help with your health loss after that so you may not even want the potions afterwards. Talisman and 3 health pots helps a lot of junglers get to 6 faster than machete and AS runes and doesn't interfere with your late game if your jungler doesn't have any other reason for AS runes.

USG Failsawce1 votes

{quoted}

If you're going to take machete first every time, yeah, AS runes are usually going to be beneficial. But this will generally cause you to lose a lot of health and go back early instead of get a full clear. There is one trap Riot laid out that I don't think I've seen mentioned here yet. And that's the refillable potion. For most junglers, one of your major early game objectives is racing to level 6. And one of the best ways to do that is a very large first clear. For that, I would recommend ignoring the refillable potion that gives you an extra 200 health and get 3 health pots that give you an extra 450 health for your first run through.This will generally let you get your tier 2 jungle item after the first clear which will mostly help with your health loss after that so you may not even want the potions afterwards. Talisman and 3 health pots helps a lot of junglers get to 6 faster than machete and AS runes and doesn't interfere with your late game if your jungler doesn't have any other reason for AS runes.

Good advice on the 3 pots instead of refillable. I hadn't even considered that. This would also mean however, not buying anymore pots for the rest of the game though, otherwise making it less gold efficient. But still a good option.

As far as AS+Machete vs Talisman and other runes. I've tried it both ways extensively on many champs. The Talisman still falls behind on overall clear time, and particularly the "rush to 6" if you take away AS runes. But the machete is not the only reason for the AS runes, both in better clear times (regardless of item) and dueling/fighting they are still useful (applying passives faster, bonus attack damage in fights [which does WAY more early on than MPEN], and many other mechanics on the many "jungler" champs), or are you going to try and tell me that you should never auto attack on ability based champs too? lol

As well, you miss out on the additional bonus exp from taking an early back and getting your Talisman (after machete). 15 (30 with both) additional exp per camp isn't a lot, but it certainly adds up.

You don't have to do it this way, but In the end you still get to 6 faster like this. Even though you lose some time in backing and walking back out, you make up for it in a faster first clear, and following clears. You also sustain that much better after the first back, and so subsequent clears and levels are that much faster. It adds up to a much better overall clear/leveling/farm. Makes following ganks easier.

Give it a try. If not the machete route, AS marks at least.

USG Failsawce1 votes

Just gonna leave this here... a reply post I made below.

"http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/2005988073/38249375 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/2160629906/1407660 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/KR/2075496144/32150260 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1996067614/19660288 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/EUW/1809444404/47257274 http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1995790939/22479740

Not to mention the tremendous amount of youtube videos and twitch feeds by Gold through Challenger players, and LCS players, and all kinds of "pros" - not only running AS on almost. every. single. jungle champ - But explaining the same reasons as to why it's so important in commentary, and jungle guides, etc.

You clear faster, sustain better as a result, get gold and levels faster so your ganks are more optimal and successful, reach items and benchmarks faster, and have more time for everything else. As opposed to what? Magic pen? Something that literally won't even help you at all in the early stages of the game, and very little mid-late game anyway.

Here's a better question for you. Why wouldn't you want to run attack speed on an AP tank? Tanks, which that have, by FAR, the hardest times clearing and staying on an even level with all others in the match?"

Getting kind of tired of explaining myself here on something that should be so very obvious. And I'm actually surprised at the sheer amount of people who are unaware of the benefits of it; running attack speed runes on practically ALL Junglers (except a few). Not just "AS champs". Especially considered every reply, to every thread about this says the exact same thing as I am.

metafoxx1 votes

The issues with the current jungle: Machete is just plain better to start than talisman on virtually every jungler. Amumu might be the only character in the game talisman is better to start on, or as least as good to start with. Tough skin mastery is much more important than it should be. On any generally squishy no-sustain jungler it is required to get through your first few clears without getting wrecked by the jungle monsters. Jungle items cost too much. Jungle Flask is a waste of money that gives you 0 combat stats for 400 gold to help you do something you should be able to do anyway. AP Junglers are garbage right now. Runglaive is an absolute joke.

The issues with your post: Mostly good advice, though you're really just covering basic jungling 101. A few points though - Fervor keystone mastery DOES NOT help you in the jungle in any way. You can build up stacks of it by hitting monsters, but the bonus damage doesn't actually happen unless you're hitting players. AS runes were the most efficient until now. With the reduction in armor of the jungle monsters, having the 12-15 armor pen at the start of the game is enough to be doing 100% true damage with your AAs, since they only have 10-15 armor. Without that, even 10 armor reduces your physical damage by 9%, while 15% AS from gives you 0.09375 attacks per second (aka one tenth of an attack per second). This means that it takes you 10 seconds of aa-ing to get the added effect of one extra attack. Compare that to doing 10% more physical damage all the time. Only considering auto attacks, you get the same effect with armor pen but you get it faster. And if your character has abilities that deal physical damage, they scale with the armor pen and get nothing from AS, making armor pen much stronger for them not only in the jungle, but also against players. Then take into account that you can use hybrid pen masteries and have the 10 armor pen you need to be doing true damage with your AAs and still have a little bit of magic pen for your spells. The pros are using AS because that's been the go-to for the past....well always. The new season is barley a week old, even pros don't figure out everything immediately. And it's not that AS runes AREN"T universally good on junglers, they are. But pen is now at least on par with them, and better on some characters. And even if pen is technically worse, it is by an extremely small margin, and many players will gladly trade teeny-weeny bit worse clears on a mage or assassin jungle in exchange for doing more damage to players.

FLAT ARMOR SEALS ARE NOT NEGOTIABLE THOUGH. GET THOSE OR YOU ARE WRONG.

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